(01-02-2016 04:47 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-02-2016 02:42 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-02-2016 11:18 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  10 conferences...10 champions. That's what is needed to make it a real playoff. Add however many wild cards you want after that....seed based on committee.

By taking all FBS conference champions you give every single FBS college football player a path to the National Championship that they can control. It doesn't matter if that chance is .000001% it is still under their control....on the field.

That is what makes sports exciting and watchable.

They will never make this the NCAA basketball tournament. The best you can hope for is an 8 team playoff with five P5 conference champions and three at-large schools, with a guaranteed slot for a G5 school. That would at least give a G5 school a place at the table for the playoffs. The other two at-large slots could be filled by anyone, but at least one of the three at-large slots would go to a G5 school.

There was only one G5 school in the top 50 of strength of schedule in FBS football, that being SMU at #36. It is a difficult argument to make that the Sun Belt Champion should be treated equally with the SEC champion. It is just never going to happen. Getting a guaranteed spot at the table would be a huge improvement for G5 schools.

Yes, all divisions in the same sports league (FBS) should be treated equally.

Its like saying you can't get a job because you are unemployed.

It's like saying that the SEC East should be barred from the SEC Championship because the SEC West is stronger and deserves both slots in the championship game....just because.

We treat FBS like no other sports league.

If FBS is really a sports league tgen run it like a real sports league instead of like WWE.

That would be great if the revenue were equal and the talent were equal. They are not. The SEC distributed $31.2 million in revenue per school in 2015. That is at least $29 million more than the Sun Belt schools each received. The SEC had 54 players drafted into the NFL in 2015. The Sun Belt had 3. The SEC generated $347 million in TV money alone last year. The Sun Belt had maybe $1 million. Just having an "FBS label" does not make two schools equal.

This is not the NFL. There is no equal revenue sharing plan for all members of the FBS. They share college football playoff revenue, it is just not equally shared. We at least have the CFP money and access bowl. The G5 conferences need to continue to get better, increase TV revenue and fight for a guaranteed spot in an 8 team playoff system. It is a process and it will take time, but at least there is hope at the FBS level. There is none at the FCS level.

(01-02-2016 05:53 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-02-2016 04:47 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(01-02-2016 02:42 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-02-2016 11:18 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  10 conferences...10 champions. That's what is needed to make it a real playoff. Add however many wild cards you want after that....seed based on committee.

By taking all FBS conference champions you give every single FBS college football player a path to the National Championship that they can control. It doesn't matter if that chance is .000001% it is still under their control....on the field.

That is what makes sports exciting and watchable.

They will never make this the NCAA basketball tournament. The best you can hope for is an 8 team playoff with five P5 conference champions and three at-large schools, with a guaranteed slot for a G5 school. That would at least give a G5 school a place at the table for the playoffs. The other two at-large slots could be filled by anyone, but at least one of the three at-large slots would go to a G5 school.

There was only one G5 school in the top 50 of strength of schedule in FBS football, that being SMU at #36. It is a difficult argument to make that the Sun Belt Champion should be treated equally with the SEC champion. It is just never going to happen. Getting a guaranteed spot at the table would be a huge improvement for G5 schools.

Yes, all divisions in the same sports league (FBS) should be treated equally.

Its like saying you can't get a job because you are unemployed.

It's like saying that the SEC East should be barred from the SEC Championship because the SEC West is stronger and deserves both slots in the championship game....just because.

We treat FBS like no other sports league.

If FBS is really a sports league tgen run it like a real sports league instead of like WWE.

That would be great if the revenue were equal and the talent were equal. They are not. The SEC distributed $31.2 million in revenue per school in 2015. That is at least $29 million more than the Sun Belt schools each received. The SEC had 54 players drafted into the NFL in 2015. The Sun Belt had 3. The SEC generated $347 million in TV money alone last year. The Sun Belt had maybe $1 million. Just having an "FBS label" does not make two schools equal.

This is not the NFL. There is no equal revenue sharing plan for all members of the FBS. They share college football playoff revenue, it is just not equally shared. We at least have the CFP money and access bowl. The G5 conferences need to continue to get better, increase TV revenue and fight for a guaranteed spot in an 8 team playoff system. It is a process and it will take time, but at least there is hope at the FBS level. There is none at the FCS level.

Why do we not get the talent? Because we don't have the money or the access to a shot at the National Championship. Why do we have less money? Because we do not get the talent or access to a shot at the National Championship. Why do we not get a shot at the National Championship? Because we don't have the money or the talent.

This is a meaningless circular argument designed to maintain a monopoly within a single sports league (FBS).

The question is....HOW DO YOU CHANGE THIS.

The answer is that you give every team in your alleged sports league access to the championship.

If every single team CAN make it to the National Championship game by what they do on the field....then the "talent" is more likely to spread itself out amongst ALL teams than it is to beg, borrow, or steal to try to sit on the bench at Bama/OhioState/USC.

Media is more likely to pay attention to a Houston if they are on their way to the playoffs...for sure.

Fans are more likely to pay attention to EVERY league championship game if their team might be facing that champion in the playoff.

And when that happens TV will be more interested in paying for those championship games.....and we all....earn....more....money.

But it will not happen because of the attitude that part of the league deserves ALL the slots...and part of the league....deserves no shot.

That's not a sports league. Its an entertainment cartel.

(01-02-2016 11:18 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  10 conferences...10 champions. That's what is needed to make it a real playoff. Add however many wild cards you want after that....seed based on committee.

By taking all FBS conference champions you give every single FBS college football player a path to the National Championship that they can control. It doesn't matter if that chance is .000001% it is still under their control....on the field.

That is what makes sports exciting and watchable.

110% agree! I was just discussing this the other day with someone. This is how a real playoff system should be structured. For argument sake give every conference champion a shot at the playoffs. What's the point in having a playoff if its not regulated the way it was designed too? A 4 team playoff is the most absurd ridiculous thing ever created. What if the NFL said ok, we're going to scratch our current playoff system and implement a 4 team playoff...that sounds great doesn't it? I'm sure many fans and supporters would be happy about that

(01-02-2016 06:12 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Why do we not get the talent? Because we don't have the money or the access to a shot at the National Championship. Why do we have less money? Because we do not get the talent or access to a shot at the National Championship? Why do we not get a shot at the National Championship? Because we don't have the money or the talent.

This is a meaningless circular argument designed to maintain a monopoly within a single sports league (FBS).

The question is....HOW DO YOU CHANGE THIS.

The answer is that you give every team in your alleged sports league access to the championship.

If every single team CAN make it to the National Championship game by what they do on the field....then the "talent" is more likely to spread itself out amongst ALL teams than it is to beg, borrow, or steal to try to sit on the bench at Bama/OhioState/USC.

Media is more likely to pay attention to a Houston if they are on their way to the playoffs...for sure.

Fans are more likely to pay attention to EVERY league championship game if their team might be facing that champion in the playoff.

And when that happens TV will be more interested in paying for those championship games.....and we all....earn....more....money.

But it will not happen because of the attitude that part of the league deserves ALL the slots...and part of the league....deserves no shot.

That's not a sports league. Its an entertainment cartel.

It took years for the power conference schools to get to a point where they could agree on a four team playoff format. They are probably never going to a 16 team playoff set-up. They may go to an 8 team playoff format eventually.

FBS conferences are not all equal and never will be. No one in a power conference will be interested in a 16 team playoff format to be fair to the G5 conferences. They already figure they are giving 25% of the playoff revenue and a spot in a major bowl game to the G5 conferences.

Every conference and school looks out for themselves first. Do you think that if the Big Sky Conference wanted to move up to the FBS level that they would be welcomed by the other G5 Conferences? No, because they would cut into the playoff revenue that the G5 conferences receive. The American Athletic Conference thinks there should be six power conferences and they should be one of them. They don't see themselves as equal to the Sun Belt.

It took us decades to get to a four team playoff. I think over time we could get to an eight team playoff format, but I can't see 16. I don't think the University Presidents could be sold on 16 and I don't think ESPN would be excited to televise first round blowouts. You will not get kids to come to Arkansas State or Texas State just because of an expanded playoff. They will still select USC, Alabama and Ohio State first. Like they do today. The prestige, the tradition and the money will win out.

I think the best we can hope for is an 8 team playoff with a guaranteed spot for a G5 school and as Attackcoog mentioned, better bowl games for the other four G5 conference champions that don't get selected. That I think is realistic and achievable. Anything beyond eight teams is a pipe dream.

(01-03-2016 09:05 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-02-2016 06:12 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Why do we not get the talent? Because we don't have the money or the access to a shot at the National Championship. Why do we have less money? Because we do not get the talent or access to a shot at the National Championship? Why do we not get a shot at the National Championship? Because we don't have the money or the talent.

This is a meaningless circular argument designed to maintain a monopoly within a single sports league (FBS).

The question is....HOW DO YOU CHANGE THIS.

The answer is that you give every team in your alleged sports league access to the championship.

If every single team CAN make it to the National Championship game by what they do on the field....then the "talent" is more likely to spread itself out amongst ALL teams than it is to beg, borrow, or steal to try to sit on the bench at Bama/OhioState/USC.

Media is more likely to pay attention to a Houston if they are on their way to the playoffs...for sure.

Fans are more likely to pay attention to EVERY league championship game if their team might be facing that champion in the playoff.

And when that happens TV will be more interested in paying for those championship games.....and we all....earn....more....money.

But it will not happen because of the attitude that part of the league deserves ALL the slots...and part of the league....deserves no shot.

That's not a sports league. Its an entertainment cartel.

It took years for the power conference schools to get to a point where they could agree on a four team playoff format. They are probably never going to a 16 team playoff set-up. They may go to an 8 team playoff format eventually.

FBS conferences are not all equal and never will be. No one in a power conference will be interested in a 16 team playoff format to be fair to the G5 conferences. They already figure they are giving 25% of the playoff revenue and a spot in a major bowl game to the G5 conferences.

Every conference and school looks out for themselves first. Do you think that if the Big Sky Conference wanted to move up to the FBS level that they would be welcomed by the other G5 Conferences? No, because they would cut into the playoff revenue that the G5 conferences receive. The American Athletic Conference thinks there should be six power conferences and they should be one of them. They don't see themselves as equal to the Sun Belt.

It took us decades to get to a four team playoff. I think over time we could get to an eight team playoff format, but I can't see 16. I don't think the University Presidents could be sold on 16 and I don't think ESPN would be excited to televise first round blowouts. You will not get kids to come to Arkansas State or Texas State just because of an expanded playoff. They will still select USC, Alabama and Ohio State first. Like they do today. The prestige, the tradition and the money will win out.

I think the best we can hope for is an 8 team playoff with a guaranteed spot for a G5 school and as Attackcoog mentioned, better bowl games for the other four G5 conference champions that don't get selected. That I think is realistic and achievable. Anything beyond eight teams is a pipe dream.

When did I say it was going to ever happen? I didn't. I fully understand WHY we will be stuck with this stupid non-sports architecture forever.

I merely point out that it is NOT a sports league and that sports fans who support the current system are essentially supporting the equivalent of professional wrestling or soap operas or beauty contests. We essentially have the equivalent of Russian Ice Dancing Judges figuring out who is "worthy" of competing for a sports championship that could be determined on the field....which is absurd.

This is not about "fairness"....it is about structuring like every sensible sports league in the history of sports leagues....where every division/conference champion in the league goes on to the championship determination round......without the input and approval of former Secretaries of State and reporters and God knows who else.

Why do people insist that this Rube Goldberg monopoly-protecting clown contraption is a good thing for college football? It ain't....it's stupid.

And nobody is even asking for, or expecting, a level playing field. All we ask is access to the playoffs with our vast financial, talent, and media coverage disparities intact. That's it...just champions having a slot. We'll take our chances. You can even seed us all LAST if you want. Is that really too much to ask in an alleged sports league competition?

The NFL declares that the NFC East is sucky and that the NFC East will no longer be allowed access to the playoffs. Since the NFC East is not allowed access to the playoffs...they don't get any league money like the other divisions. Then they decide that no matter the actual records, they'll have a committee made up of Hillary Clinton and some guys exclusively with ties to the AFC West and AFC South.

WTH? Fans would riot at the stupidity. But many of those SAME fans defend such ridiculousness at the college level and rationalize that it makes sense. Well...it makes no sense other than protecting the privileges and position of an elite and making the status quo permanent in preventing any non-elite program from ever reaching that status through its performance.

(01-04-2016 12:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  The NFL declares that the NFC East is sucky and that the NFC East will no longer be allowed access to the playoffs. Since the NFC East is not allowed access to the playoffs...they don't get any league money like the other divisions. Then they decide that no matter the actual records, they'll have a committee made up of Hillary Clinton and some guys exclusively with ties to the AFC West and AFC South.

WTH? Fans would riot at the stupidity. But many of those SAME fans defend such ridiculousness at the college level and rationalize that it makes sense. Well...it makes no sense other than protecting the privileges and position of an elite and making the status quo permanent in preventing any non-elite program from ever reaching that status through its performance.

Well, the NFC East is sucky and my team is in that division. (23-38 as a conference )

(01-03-2016 09:05 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  It took years for the power conference schools to get to a point where they could agree on a four team playoff format. They are probably never going to a 16 team playoff set-up. They may go to an 8 team playoff format eventually.

FBS conferences are not all equal and never will be. No one in a power conference will be interested in a 16 team playoff format to be fair to the G5 conferences. They already figure they are giving 25% of the playoff revenue and a spot in a major bowl game to the G5 conferences.

Every conference and school looks out for themselves first. Do you think that if the Big Sky Conference wanted to move up to the FBS level that they would be welcomed by the other G5 Conferences? No, because they would cut into the playoff revenue that the G5 conferences receive. The American Athletic Conference thinks there should be six power conferences and they should be one of them. They don't see themselves as equal to the Sun Belt.

It took us decades to get to a four team playoff. I think over time we could get to an eight team playoff format, but I can't see 16. I don't think the University Presidents could be sold on 16 and I don't think ESPN would be excited to televise first round blowouts. You will not get kids to come to Arkansas State or Texas State just because of an expanded playoff. They will still select USC, Alabama and Ohio State first. Like they do today. The prestige, the tradition and the money will win out.

I think the best we can hope for is an 8 team playoff with a guaranteed spot for a G5 school and as Attackcoog mentioned, better bowl games for the other four G5 conference champions that don't get selected. That I think is realistic and achievable. Anything beyond eight teams is a pipe dream.

What's funny about this comment to me is the delusion most AAC fans have. Many of them honestly think that they are a P5 conference stuck in the G5. Let's look at some of their conference and OOC games from this season:

- An FCS team, JMU, beat SMU, 48 to 45
- A terrible Army beat Tulane, 34 to 31
- Houston absolutely dominated Tulane early on, 42 to 7
- Tulsa barely beat a terrible FAU in OT, 47 to 44
- Tulsa only beat a winless UCF by two touchdowns, 45 to 30
- Another FCS team, Furman, beat UCF, 16 to 15
- UCF was dominated by an average USF team, 44 to 3
- UCF lost to a season that still has a losing record, UConn, 40 to 13
- Another down team, ECU, dominated UCF, 44 to 7
- ECU beat an average FCS Towson team by one touchdown, 28 to 20
- UConn beat an average FCS Villanova team by one touchdown, 20 to 15
- UConn was beat by an "lesser" Marshall team, 16 to 10
- UConn was handed a loss by an average Cincinnati team, 37 to 13
- Cincinnati barely beat a terrible Miami (Ohio) team, 37 to 33
- Cincinnati was dominated by San Diego State in their bowl, 42 to 7
- Memphis barely beat the "lesser" Bowling Green, 44 to 41
- Navy barely beat a terrible Army, 21 to 17
- Temple was handled by the "lesser" Toledo in their bowl, 32 to 17
- USF lost to the "lesser" WKU in their bowl, 45 to 35
- Auburn whooped Memphis in their bowl, 31 to 10

So, as much as the AAC thinks it closely aligns with the P5, it doesn't. It has more bottom of the barrel teams than they do dominating teams. There are a few teams that could stand to move up (i.e. Houston, Navy, Temple, USF), but the rest are right where they belong in the G5.

(01-04-2016 10:00 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  

(01-03-2016 09:05 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  It took years for the power conference schools to get to a point where they could agree on a four team playoff format. They are probably never going to a 16 team playoff set-up. They may go to an 8 team playoff format eventually.

FBS conferences are not all equal and never will be. No one in a power conference will be interested in a 16 team playoff format to be fair to the G5 conferences. They already figure they are giving 25% of the playoff revenue and a spot in a major bowl game to the G5 conferences.

Every conference and school looks out for themselves first. Do you think that if the Big Sky Conference wanted to move up to the FBS level that they would be welcomed by the other G5 Conferences? No, because they would cut into the playoff revenue that the G5 conferences receive. The American Athletic Conference thinks there should be six power conferences and they should be one of them. They don't see themselves as equal to the Sun Belt.

It took us decades to get to a four team playoff. I think over time we could get to an eight team playoff format, but I can't see 16. I don't think the University Presidents could be sold on 16 and I don't think ESPN would be excited to televise first round blowouts. You will not get kids to come to Arkansas State or Texas State just because of an expanded playoff. They will still select USC, Alabama and Ohio State first. Like they do today. The prestige, the tradition and the money will win out.

I think the best we can hope for is an 8 team playoff with a guaranteed spot for a G5 school and as Attackcoog mentioned, better bowl games for the other four G5 conference champions that don't get selected. That I think is realistic and achievable. Anything beyond eight teams is a pipe dream.

What's funny about this comment to me is the delusion most AAC fans have. Many of them honestly think that they are a P5 conference stuck in the G5. Let's look at some of their conference and OOC games from this season:

- An FCS team, JMU, beat SMU, 48 to 45
- A terrible Army beat Tulane, 34 to 31
- Houston absolutely dominated Tulane early on, 42 to 7
- Tulsa barely beat a terrible FAU in OT, 47 to 44
- Tulsa only beat a winless UCF by two touchdowns, 45 to 30
- Another FCS team, Furman, beat UCF, 16 to 15
- UCF was dominated by an average USF team, 44 to 3
- UCF lost to a season that still has a losing record, UConn, 40 to 13
- Another down team, ECU, dominated UCF, 44 to 7
- ECU beat an average FCS Towson team by one touchdown, 28 to 20
- UConn beat an average FCS Villanova team by one touchdown, 20 to 15
- UConn was beat by an "lesser" Marshall team, 16 to 10
- UConn was handed a loss by an average Cincinnati team, 37 to 13
- Cincinnati barely beat a terrible Miami (Ohio) team, 37 to 33
- Cincinnati was dominated by San Diego State in their bowl, 42 to 7
- Memphis barely beat the "lesser" Bowling Green, 44 to 41
- Navy barely beat a terrible Army, 21 to 17
- Temple was handled by the "lesser" Toledo in their bowl, 32 to 17
- USF lost to the "lesser" WKU in their bowl, 45 to 35
- Auburn whooped Memphis in their bowl, 31 to 10

So, as much as the AAC thinks it closely aligns with the P5, it doesn't. It has more bottom of the barrel teams than they do dominating teams. There are a few teams that could stand to move up (i.e. Houston, Navy, Temple, USF), but the rest are right where they belong in the G5.

None of this has anything to do with sports. Its about having more prestige than that guy over there...and keeping that guy in his place....and not having to interact with those people...and keeping more money than him.

In other words...middle school BS.

I just thought about this format:
5 P5 champs, top G5 Champ and top at-large have a play in game for 6th seed. 1st and 2nd seed have bye.

So this year it would have been

6) Iowa/Houston vs.
3 Mich State
vs.
2)Alabama

5) Stanford vs. 4 Oklahoma
vs
1) Clemson

The whole world would have been rooting for Houston to upset Iowa to avoid repeat of Big10 Championship game, and if they pulled it off, you'd think they have a good shot at beating MSU as well, and then the Alabama vs. Houston game likely ends up more compelling than UA MSU did. With the aid of hindsight, I think Stanford gives Clemson a better game too.

As someone once said here, every D1 basketball player and every D1 baseball player knows when the season starts that if they, and their team, do everything possible and win their games, they can win a national title.

Not so with every D1 football player.