(12-28-2015 10:05 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I wish Thamel had expanded more on this:

"The Power Five votes count for twice as much as the Group of Five's, but the smaller leagues could ultimately decide whether the legislation and amendment are passed."

I really haven't seen too much on the G5 conferences' perspectives about CCG deregulation, other than conjecture on this board.

If rejecting the Big12 deregulation proposal virtually guarantees realignment, then schools thinking they are likely to move up will vote against the proposal and schools fearing they will be left behind in a watered down league will vote for the proposal. Following that logic, my guess is the majority of G5 leagues would vote for the proposal.

Quote:BYU ... I know there might be some hesitation because of the strong church affiliation

Not a problem for the Big XII. Maybe even a benefit.

Being that or a state school, having a big-time football program, joining for all sports, and being ready, willing, able, very interested, and not a PITA were important in the last expansion.

IMO, one of the questions remains....if they expanded, HOW would they divide up the divisions (which now seems to be a permanent issue per the Big 10)?

Any set up where Texas and Oklahoma are in the same division would screw the opposite division out of a top-named opponent, so I'm guessing UT and OU would be split....

So how do they want to do it? Who does Oklahoma want in their division, and who does Texas want in theirs? This article also contradicts interest in Houston, which seems to have ramped up lately....

Texas Tech, Baylor, and TCU may not like Houston, but I know Oklahoma would be interested in adding them

Before the expansion candidates are chosen, you have to look at how the divisions would be defined...I could easily see UH getting added....

Also, if you're going to look strictly eastward, UConn and Temple would be a good pair....

There's still too many questions to be asked to decipher who would get in....most likely the Big XII brainfarts again and adds SMU and UAB

(12-27-2015 08:06 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:02 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  Maybe they shouldn't have gotten desperate and added West Virginia, a terrible cultural and geographic fit, just to have a 10th team...

They needed a 10th team to maintain their television deal. If they were smarter and less greedy they should have invited WVU, Louisville, and Cincinatti at the same time.

They needed more than a 10th team, they needed to shore up their perceived football strength, and at the time WVU was a BCS bowl winning program.

(12-28-2015 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 10:05 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I wish Thamel had expanded more on this:

"The Power Five votes count for twice as much as the Group of Five's, but the smaller leagues could ultimately decide whether the legislation and amendment are passed."

I really haven't seen too much on the G5 conferences' perspectives about CCG deregulation, other than conjecture on this board.

If rejecting the Big12 deregulation proposal virtually guarantees realignment, then schools thinking they are likely to move up will vote against the proposal and schools fearing they will be left behind in a watered down league will vote for the proposal. Following that logic, my guess is the majority of G5 leagues would vote for the proposal.

Yes, it's like voting for or against a GOR. Schools that think they are likely to move up vote against, everyone else for.

In this case, 90% of the G5 schools know that no matter what, the Big 12 isn't inviting them.

(12-28-2015 11:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 10:05 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I wish Thamel had expanded more on this:

"The Power Five votes count for twice as much as the Group of Five's, but the smaller leagues could ultimately decide whether the legislation and amendment are passed."

I really haven't seen too much on the G5 conferences' perspectives about CCG deregulation, other than conjecture on this board.

If rejecting the Big12 deregulation proposal virtually guarantees realignment, then schools thinking they are likely to move up will vote against the proposal and schools fearing they will be left behind in a watered down league will vote for the proposal. Following that logic, my guess is the majority of G5 leagues would vote for the proposal.

Yes, it's like voting for or against a GOR. Schools that think they are likely to move up vote against, everyone else for.

In this case, 90% of the G5 schools know that no matter what, the Big 12 isn't inviting them.

But maybe the AAC does if you are in CUSA or MAC or CUSA does if you are in Sun Belt.

Within the AAC the vote is going to be split. Would think teams that think they have a chance at the Big 12 would vote for ande teams that aren't on the radar against.

(12-28-2015 11:15 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Within the AAC the vote is going to be split. Would think teams that think they have a chance at the Big 12 would vote for ande teams that aren't on the radar against.

AAC has stated we will support the Big 12

The MAC will vote lockstep with the B10 IMO.

(12-28-2015 12:18 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 12:11 AM)ManleyPointer Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 11:40 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:19 PM)bullet Wrote:  Brett McMurphy recently said that BYU wasn't under consideration. Nobody talks about UConn. Colorado St. has said they haven't been talked to. Thamel isn't talking to people who know what is going on.

Don't know about the other stuff but McMurphy certainly said that --- and said it with force.

He also said expansion is not happening for 5-10 years.

Untrue --- here's the quote >>>

How likely is Big 12 expansion, and Memphis' inclusion when and if that happens?

McMurphy: "I think it’s more likely in five than two.

On BYU - the quote >>

The only thing I know for certain is that the Big 12 does not want to expand west. I’ve said that 100 times and I’ll say it 100 more. I know everybody talks about BYU, but everyone I talk to, all my sources, they tell me BYU is not an option. So then the question is, if the Big 12 does expand, who are the two teams they go toward?”

That's not the quote I was referencing. Here's the actual quote:

"they are not expanding. If they do 5-10 years from now it will not be to the west"

https://twitter.com/mcmurphyespn/status/...8910217216

(12-28-2015 10:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 12:23 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 11:52 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 11:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  What makes anybody think that UT and OU have any interest in sharing money with the likes of UCF, BYU, or Colorado State?

Why do you think they'd lose money?

There is no immediate value to be added.

There is also the problem of the mismatch. How excited is a Texas fan base going to be to play UCF or BYU when they feel they need to be playing other major programs?

BYU is fine. The problems are nobody else available match them and the Big 12 doesn't want to go west.

Colorado St.?

I think it actually makes more sense than Boise.

I think the Big 12 has two major problems: they have a small footprint concentrated in Texas without much national reach, especially for a P5 conference and West Virginia is out on an island. I don't think there is much the conference can do to rectify the demographics into a positive by only inviting two schools, however, they can't really make it worse unless they double (or five-tuple?) dip in an existing state(s). So as long as they don't add another Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, or West Virginia school, it will help but I think a school like Central Florida would help best with their huge undergrad enrollment and being located in both their city and state which would put the SEC and ACC on notice.

To help with the West Virginia island, I'd add Cincinnati as would most of everyone else. But it is curious as to why they weren't invited along with West Virginia and Louisville when all were in the Big East as it was sinking. Common perception is that the Big 12 had WVU and Louisville lined up but couldn't agree on a 12th and now the common perception is that Cincinnati is the obvious 11th school and the conference is fighting on the 12th (and/or 13th and 14th). Why wasn't Cincinnati added before and what changed since then to make them a slam dunk? It's curious to observe.

BYU and Colorado State make the most sense, but the league will likely look east and add Cincy.

Not a slight at Cincy, but the optics of Cincy vs Texas football games... just bizarro. At least in CSU, the Big 12 gets another "state" school roughly in a market they were previously in (Colorado). It wouldn't look as weird on score crawlers.

BYU is a no-brainer if they do expand. They may actually break even on the value add proposition. I dont think anyone else would.

I still wish they'd find a way around the ACC GOR and add FSU & Clemson. Would really balance the league east/west, with nationally recognized programs. ACC would have a heart attack, but UConn fans would be ejaculatory [sic].

just get this over with so I can start hating College Football

Big XII East
Texas
UConn
West Virginia
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU

Big XII West
BYU
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State

(12-28-2015 11:21 AM)Artifice Wrote:  BYU and Colorado State make the most sense, but the league will likely look east and add Cincy.

Not a slight at Cincy, but the optics of Cincy vs Texas football games... just bizarro. At least in CSU, the Big 12 gets another "state" school roughly in a market they were previously in (Colorado). It wouldn't look as weird on score crawlers.

BYU is a no-brainer if they do expand. They may actually break even on the value add proposition. I dont think anyone else would.

I still wish they'd find a way around the ACC GOR and add FSU & Clemson. Would really balance the league east/west, with nationally recognized programs. ACC would have a heart attack, but UConn fans would be ejaculatory [sic].

So I take it Texas vs. Pitt, Miami, Auburn or UCLA are also bizzaro (since they are schools named after a city)?. However you are cool with Texas vs. New Hampshire, UMass, Vermont, Idaho, et al, since they are named after states.

See the silliness to this "state" school rationale? Cincinnati is a damn fine state institution that would be ranked in the top half of the B12 academically and in endowment.

(12-27-2015 08:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:06 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:02 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  Maybe they shouldn't have gotten desperate and added West Virginia, a terrible cultural and geographic fit, just to have a 10th team...

They needed a 10th team to maintain their television deal. If they were smarter and less greedy they should have invited WVU, Louisville, and Cincinatti at the same time.

^This^

Yup...and right now they should add 4, not 2 and certainly not 0. If they don't add they die. If they add only 2, they stave off death for a bit. With 4 teams, the conference has a chance.

With 4, you can get into Cincy & MEM to the east and BYU/Co. State to the west. Gives the conf several large media markets with good sports and 2 more members close to WV. Get a B12 network and you have games in 3 time zones with major markets for content.

(12-28-2015 11:32 AM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:06 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:02 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  Maybe they shouldn't have gotten desperate and added West Virginia, a terrible cultural and geographic fit, just to have a 10th team...

They needed a 10th team to maintain their television deal. If they were smarter and less greedy they should have invited WVU, Louisville, and Cincinatti at the same time.

^This^

Yup...and right now they should add 4, not 2 and certainly not 0. If they don't add they die. If they add only 2, they stave off death for a bit. With 4 teams, the conference has a chance.

I was just about to post that...due to the WV problem they need to get to 14. They might take a hit in the pocketbook but doing nothing will kill them eventually.

They either need to go all in with the east (Cincy, Memphis, FL twins, Houston, Tulane)

or split 2 east (Cincy/Memphis) and 2 west (BYU and Colorado St/Boise)

(12-28-2015 11:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 11:21 AM)Artifice Wrote:  BYU and Colorado State make the most sense, but the league will likely look east and add Cincy.

Not a slight at Cincy, but the optics of Cincy vs Texas football games... just bizarro. At least in CSU, the Big 12 gets another "state" school roughly in a market they were previously in (Colorado). It wouldn't look as weird on score crawlers.

BYU is a no-brainer if they do expand. They may actually break even on the value add proposition. I dont think anyone else would.

I still wish they'd find a way around the ACC GOR and add FSU & Clemson. Would really balance the league east/west, with nationally recognized programs. ACC would have a heart attack, but UConn fans would be ejaculatory [sic].

So I take it Texas vs. Pitt, Miami, Auburn or UCLA are also bizzaro (since they are schools named after a city)?. However you are cool with Texas vs. New Hampshire, UMass, Vermont, Idaho, et al, since they are named after states.

See the silliness to this "state" school rationale? Cincinnati is a damn fine state institution that would be ranked in the top half of the B12 academically and in endowment.

Charlotte is one of the programs that I follow. Aside from some now distant "hate", I know all about Cincy. Been there for hoops games before. It's a good school. I'm just talking about optics - which I agree should be ridiculous, but these P5 leagues - they think this way. There was some similar dicussion when Miami joined the ACC years back.

But there's also a cultural aspect that I probably shouldnt have glazed over. How well does Cincy fit in with Texas & Oklahoma? I'm not even sure they really fit in with WVU, but at least they almost share geography.

In that other scenario I pitched, I think the ACC would likely backfill with Cincy & UConn. That wouldn't be such a bad landing for Cincy.

In any event, I think if the B12 does expand it'll be BYU & Cincy.

(12-28-2015 11:32 AM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:06 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 08:02 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  Maybe they shouldn't have gotten desperate and added West Virginia, a terrible cultural and geographic fit, just to have a 10th team...

They needed a 10th team to maintain their television deal. If they were smarter and less greedy they should have invited WVU, Louisville, and Cincinatti at the same time.

^This^

Yup...and right now they should add 4, not 2 and certainly not 0. If they don't add they die. If they add only 2, they stave off death for a bit. With 4 teams, the conference has a chance.

I was just about to post that...due to the WV problem they need to get to 14. They might take a hit in the pocketbook but doing nothing will kill them eventually.

They either need to go all in with the east with 4 of these (Cincy, Memphis, FL twins, Houston, Tulane, UConn)

or split 2 east (Cincy/Memphis) and 2 west (BYU and Colorado St/Boise)