I agree with the poster about the Memphis game. Their secondary was horrendous, our OL was way better than their dline and Moore was winging it to some pretty damn good receivers.

Moore has an absolute cannon for an arm and i like his moxie. But he held onto the ball far too long in a lot of situations and got away with it some of the time. Going for the home run doesnt work on every down. Now maybe some of that was playcalling but i think a lot of it was inexperience and overconfidence.

Kiel is just the better option right now until Moore matures. Sorry guys, thats just the way it is. Don't be fooled by the gaudy numbers.

Has anyone else noticed that Gunner developed that back foot throwing style that Matthew Stafford has?

(12-14-2015 09:51 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 09:39 AM)AeroCat Wrote:  I don't think he has much of a chance to get into the NFL. He hasn't shown me anything that would lead me to believe that he should play on Sundays.

Really hoping that Hayden Moore takes the #1 spot. I think he has more potential and gives us a better chance at winning.

I like Gunner as a person, but he just doesn't have it.

Disagree strongly on this. I think Moore's performance against Memphis gave everyone a false sense of how far along he is. He was bad against Miami (OH)and awful against USF. He had a good half against Miami (FL) but really struggled in the second half minus one throw. He was pretty bad against BYU as well. His issues were he seemed uncomfortable in the pocket and held the ball far too long as the season went on. I also don't think he was comfortable with his progressions.

I thought Gunner looked significantly better than Moore most the time. Even against USF where Gunner's two ints early really hurt...they weren't bad decision ints (like Moore's). He simply sailed a couple of passes, which happens. I just thought he made better decisions, looked more decisive and had better control of the offense. I think Marcus is right that they sometimes asked too much of Gunner, but he has been really good most the season.

I like Moore and think he'll be really good his JR and SR seasons, but I'd ride Gunner for now.

Totally agree with all of this. Gunner > Moore.

(12-14-2015 02:21 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 09:51 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 09:39 AM)AeroCat Wrote:  I don't think he has much of a chance to get into the NFL. He hasn't shown me anything that would lead me to believe that he should play on Sundays.

Really hoping that Hayden Moore takes the #1 spot. I think he has more potential and gives us a better chance at winning.

I like Gunner as a person, but he just doesn't have it.

Disagree strongly on this. I think Moore's performance against Memphis gave everyone a false sense of how far along he is. He was bad against Miami (OH)and awful against USF. He had a good half against Miami (FL) but really struggled in the second half minus one throw. He was pretty bad against BYU as well. His issues were he seemed uncomfortable in the pocket and held the ball far too long as the season went on. I also don't think he was comfortable with his progressions.

I thought Gunner looked significantly better than Moore most the time. Even against USF where Gunner's two ints early really hurt...they weren't bad decision ints (like Moore's). He simply sailed a couple of passes, which happens. I just thought he made better decisions, looked more decisive and had better control of the offense. I think Marcus is right that they sometimes asked too much of Gunner, but he has been really good most the season.

I like Moore and think he'll be really good his JR and SR seasons, but I'd ride Gunner for now.

Totally agree with all of this. Gunner > Moore.

Gunnar is better than Moore, but he seems to wear down both physically and mentally over the course of a season. At the beginning, he looks very fresh and makes some unbelievable throws, by week 12 he is throwing 10 yards over pitch and catches. I am not sure of the cause. I see where Aero says that he is throwing off his back foot. Bad mechanics would explain this.

Gunner is decent. But as I said when he transferred here (some didn't like it): He isn't the starting QB for Notre Dame for a reason. I stand by that.

(12-14-2015 06:59 PM)rosewater Wrote:  Gunnar is better than Moore, but he seems to wear down both physically and mentally over the course of a season. At the beginning, he looks very fresh and makes some unbelievable throws, by week 12 he is throwing 10 yards over pitch and catches. I am not sure of the cause. I see where Aero says that he is throwing off his back foot. Bad mechanics would explain this.

Gunner is the best option hands down for now. He wears down because he takes too many unnecessary shots. Part of that is holding on to the ball too long and part of it is play calling at times. I think he has also developed some bad habits that include not stepping into his throws with feet firmly planted and he sometimes "flicks" or "snaps" his arm instead of a nice smooth follow-thru throw. He also seems to panic at times when he feels the rush and makes poor throws/decisions. Some of that is the mental part of overcoming previous shots he's taken from pass rushers over the years. Remember when Joey Bosa body planted him in the ground? Watch some film of him if you have any games saved on your DVR. The kid has all the talent in the world but he still has to improve on some mechanics and football IQ IMO. One thing is for sure, he is tough and competitive so hopefully he can put it all together for his Senior season.

I'm not a big Gunner fan after this year. I see a kid who panics when the chips are down and makes stupid passes when you need him most. He is the Anti-Pike.

(12-14-2015 07:21 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Gunner is decent. But as I said when he transferred here (some didn't like it): He isn't the starting QB for Notre Dame for a reason. I stand by that.

He redshirted the year Golson led them to an undefeated season. He had plenty of reason to think he wasn't going to be staring for awhile.

(12-14-2015 09:09 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 07:21 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Gunner is decent. But as I said when he transferred here (some didn't like it): He isn't the starting QB for Notre Dame for a reason. I stand by that.

He redshirted the year Golson led them to an undefeated season. He had plenty of reason to think he wasn't going to be staring for awhile.

I will admit I don't have stats in front of me but he 'seemed' better last year. I was expecting a bigger year this year. Maybe my expectations were too high.

(12-14-2015 09:59 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 09:09 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 07:21 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Gunner is decent. But as I said when he transferred here (some didn't like it): He isn't the starting QB for Notre Dame for a reason. I stand by that.

He redshirted the year Golson led them to an undefeated season. He had plenty of reason to think he wasn't going to be staring for awhile.

I will admit I don't have stats in front of me but he 'seemed' better last year. I was expecting a bigger year this year. Maybe my expectations were too high.

Your expectations too high? Nah! Never!

(12-14-2015 10:11 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 09:59 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 09:09 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 07:21 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Gunner is decent. But as I said when he transferred here (some didn't like it): He isn't the starting QB for Notre Dame for a reason. I stand by that.

He redshirted the year Golson led them to an undefeated season. He had plenty of reason to think he wasn't going to be staring for awhile.

I will admit I don't have stats in front of me but he 'seemed' better last year. I was expecting a bigger year this year. Maybe my expectations were too high.

Your expectations too high? Nah! Never!

haha what? What's wrong with thinking we should go 11-1 and make an NY6 bowl every single year?

(12-14-2015 09:09 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 07:21 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Gunner is decent. But as I said when he transferred here (some didn't like it): He isn't the starting QB for Notre Dame for a reason. I stand by that.

He redshirted the year Golson led them to an undefeated season. He had plenty of reason to think he wasn't going to be staring for awhile.

IIRC he also did not get along very well with then ND QB coach Chuck Martin. The reason he came here was because he had a great relationship with Darrin Hinshaw, whom he had met at some QB camps and recruited him at Tennessee.

I'll say this again, part of the problem with Gunner is decision making and under/over throwing his receivers. UC's receivers made him look better than he was - all season long. Gunner's long ball was consistently under thrown, always seemed like the throw was late, WR's had to stop and adjust to make the catch. Sailed way too many balls, possibly pointing to some kind of mechanic flaw. He also tends to "guide" the ball at times, leading to inaccurate throws. Lastly, his football IQ is lacking severely. Constantly telegraphing, and throwing into coverage - I'm not sure he actually runs through any progressions at all, if he does he may only throw to his second option. I was expecting him to improve this part of his game from last season, yet he regressed big time this season.

IMO, I think Moore has more upside but is lacking game experience. Memphis game was huge, but their DB's stunk (and they attacked the seams for huge chunk plays). UM he did what was needed to win the game, managed it and made throws when he had to. BYU game, he had the lead at the start of the 4th, the O-line was gassed at halftime - line couldn't even block three at that point, they were a sieve, it didn't matter who played QB at that point. As for holding onto to the ball to long, I believe the staff told him to eat the ball if he couldn't make a throw, a sack is better than a bad turnover with a backup QB playing.

Something that has bugged me all season is the lack of using the middle of the field. Whenever UC attacked the seams and middle, big plays resulted - regardless of who threw the ball. Yet they would always go back to sideline passes. Too many times, the middle of the field was ripe for huge plays but the play call would be for a 30yd long sideways pass to gain 5yds, very frustrating with the talent of the receiving corp this year. A great pass catching TE could have carved up defenses this season, seemed they only used them for H-backs and goal line offense.

Something is up with Kiel. Has not been at practice all week.

Can't be academics, he just graduated. Transferring?

(12-15-2015 02:32 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  Something is up with Kiel. Has not been at practice all week.

You're sure he's not been at practice (and just not practicing)? If they're letting him heal up a bit I could see them holding him out of practice for a little while.

(12-15-2015 02:47 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 02:32 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  Something is up with Kiel. Has not been at practice all week.

You're sure he's not been at practice (and just not practicing)? If they're letting him heal up a bit I could see them holding him out of practice for a little while.

No way. Where's the information coming from about him not practicing?

Here's how my buddy who attends games explained the difference to me. Gunner throws receivers covered. He waits until the guy is open to throw the ball and by the time it gets there the guy is covered.

Moore on the other hand throws receivers open. He'll throw the ball while the receiver is covered just before the receiver gets open. That way when the ball gets there the receiver can make the catch.

I also think Moore has better arm strength and throws a better deep ball. Hard to imagine since Gunner's arms are the size of my legs. I agree that it seemed like Gunner was better last year.

Gunner had a completion percentage 7 percentage points higher, had a higher Yard per Completion, had a higher quarterback rating and had a better TD/INT ratio. This despite the outlayer Memphis game where Moore had the greatest day in the history of the program.

I got the exact opposite impression on throwing guys open vs. Throwing guys covered. I thought Kiel was much more decisive and that allowed him to make throws that weren't there with Moore. Also thought he made some great across the field sideline throws I've seen very few QBs able to make successfully.

(12-15-2015 03:03 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Gunner had a completion percentage 7 percentage points higher, had a higher Yard per Completion, had a higher quarterback rating and had a better TD/INT ratio. This despite the outlayer Memphis game where Moore had the greatest day in the history of the program.

I got the exact opposite impression on throwing guys open vs. Throwing guys covered. I thought Kiel was much more decisive and that allowed him to make throws that weren't there with Moore. Also thought he made some great across the field sideline throws I've seen very few QBs able to make successfully.

You're comparing a redshirt freshman and a redshirt junior....

Not going to Hawaii