But who has the most beds on campus?

Let's not do this crap again, the American as a whole did great this year. Let's enjoy the league success. No need for worthless pissing contest.

(12-07-2015 09:23 AM)JesseTU Wrote:  TV Contract is good until 2025. Not having a championship game this year guaranteed OU a slot in the playoff. Having a conference championship game cost Iowa a slot in the playoff this year - had the Big 10 #2 team been ranked 10th, it would have cost the Big10 their playoff spot.

What he said was "we really don't want to add schools, but if the NCAA screws us - we might have to."

What Memphis, UCF, Houston, Cinci, ECU, BYU, and Boise fans heard was "ZOMG!11!!! We really want to add [insert school here] to our conference. We never wanted them before, but now we totally think they will bring in more than $26mil a year in additional revenue! so they won't just be a leach."

I noticed you left USF out even though USF has everything those schools do and is about to win 10-12 games next year.

(12-07-2015 09:27 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 11:16 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  It's not that they don't want a CCG below 12. From Delany's comments that clearly is not an issue. It's that the Big 10 Is concerned about allowing leagues to pick any two teams for the CCG, regardless of divisionS or not. They think that potentially gives an advantage, since sometimes the top team in one of the divisions is way down in the rankings. Being able to select teams for a CCG is what he is concerned about.

Will be interesting to see what everyone else thinks about the amendment and the SEC suggestion. From the comments it sounds like no one wants to force the Big 12 to expand and cause a whole another round of conference shifts. I think everyone kinda is likening this current steady states.

I think there is some concern because if the Big 12 could pick any two teams for the CCG and it may not be the top 2 teams. It could be #1 and #3.
TCU could be screw if they are #2. Perhaps the Big 12 could pick #1 OU and #3 Texas in the CCG instead of TCU. Texas may help OU more than TCU.
Actually, having 5 team divisions and 9 conf. games could put OU and UT in different divisions and still allow the Red River Rivalry to happen.

9 game schedule with 2 5 team divisions results in a round robin schedule- 4 games against your division and 5 against the other. Nobody misses anybody.

As far as picking the best two teams, I don't think there is a concern about screwing teams. The league has every reason to pin the best two teams against each other. In fact that is the concern. With the divisional system, leagues are going to end up with their best team against a lower ranked team, like Ala-Fla this year. No divisions (or divisions where you pick any two teams) in a big league like the ACC means that the "best" two teams can be matched up and the winner can be well positioned for the playoff. The any two teams rule would give an advantage to those leagues that eschew divisions versus leagues that maintain them.

(12-07-2015 08:41 AM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  I don't think academics will matter as much as you think. The ACC pinched their noses and let Louisville in.

This x1000

You want to get into the P5, you get your athletic department revenue up, up, up.

(12-07-2015 08:41 AM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  I don't think academics will matter as much as you think. The ACC pinched their noses and let Louisville in.

And TCU which is a Doctoral level in the Carnegie Classifications.

(12-06-2015 10:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  http://www.espn929.com/pages/22249014.php?

I keep thinking the B10 probably don't want to allow the CCG to go below 12. If the B10 and SEC don't want it, look for P12 and probably the ACC to go along. Be curious to see what happens.

This proposal allows the Big12 to have a CCG at 10 members ... but in the least useful way possible for a 10 member league.

It also allows substantial additional flexibility to any conference that wishes to have divisions to organize their divisions as they see fit, including skipping an in-division game in favor of a cross-division game or having three divisions and having the top two play in the CCG ... and it may be noted that either of those would ease the challenge of coping with conference sizes bigger than 14.

This past week drove two nails in the coffin of any short-term Big 12 expansion.

First, Oklahoma made the playoffs, debunking the notion that not having a CCG is some kind of fatal flaw in the Big 12's current structure concerning making the playoffs.

Second, with the release of the B1G's proposal, it is now clear that the Big 12 will get what it wants - the ability to create a CCG while having just ten teams, because the B1G proposal accepts that as well. There is no P5 opposition to the basic notion of having a CCG with 10 teams.

(12-07-2015 09:23 AM)JesseTU Wrote:  TV Contract is good until 2025. Not having a championship game this year guaranteed OU a slot in the playoff. Having a conference championship game cost Iowa a slot in the playoff this year - had the Big 10 #2 team been ranked 10th, it would have cost the Big10 their playoff spot.

What he said was "we really don't want to add schools, but if the NCAA screws us - we might have to."

What Memphis, UCF, Houston, Cinci, ECU, BYU, and Boise fans heard was "ZOMG!11!!! We really want to add [insert school here] to our conference. We never wanted them before, but now we totally think they will bring in more than $26mil a year in additional revenue! so they won't just be a leach."

Pretty much this. The elephant in the room is that if any available school added value, they already would have been offered. What does that mean?

Well, it means that the programs available haven't done enough to earn a bid.

Instead of picking and choosing, let's go through EVERY school that has recent on the field product success, school $, large fan base, good media market, and is AAU or is a public system flagship.

Cincy
Houston
UCONN
Memphis
ECU
Tulane
Temple
SMU
Rice
Buffalo
UCF
USF
BYU
Boise


If you rank the factors from easiest to hardest to improve, it looks like this:

Winning . . . Fans . . . Money . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . AAU/Academics . . . . . . And that's it. Media markets, and system flagship status are immutable.

That leaves you with 9 candidates that can possibly check all the boxes, Houston, UCONN, Buffalo, SMU, Tulane, Temple, BYU, Memphis and Rice. But none are good choices right now. UCONN, is just too far away. Temple/Buffalo is at least closer to WVU but still very far away. Temple needs more fans and $. Buffalo needs success, support and $. UH needs to build its fan base. Tulane and Rice need to put a good product on the field so they can build their fan bases. SMU needs to get its house in order, and rebuild a fan base. BYU is... well BYU. They're out. If BYU was going to happen it would happen already.

UH is the frontrunner of all of these, but is already in TX. UH in puts Rice out, and Rice is just too far behind. Same for SMU. Memphis has had some success, and is a system flagship. But unlike Houston (a flagship of a secondary system in a massive city and massive state), Memphis is the flagship of a second state system in a small city and state. How much can they really compete with the Vols for their market?

So if I'm the BigXII, I'm waiting until UH/Memphis and either Tulane/Buffalo/or Temple make themselves a value add. I only panic and make a move before my ideal candidates are ready if forced to get a championship game. And with OU making the playoff without a championship game, what's the rush?

If you panic and have to expand now, I'd go with Memphis and UH today. But it's a risk. If I'm allowed to wait until 2025, I'd wait to see what happens. Can UH, Temple and Memphis sustain success and build fan bases? Could Tulane rebuild itself and bring back the glory days? Or can Buffalo turn into something people want to watch?

Best case scenario, from BIGXII point of view, is UH collapse, Tulane miracle and Memphis sustained success. That gives you a bridge to WVU, and inroads into the SEC from both the north and south, in the best recruiting ground in the country. And with UH collapse you don't cannibalize the TX market any further. But if UH continues to get better politics will take over. And if Tulane can't get its act together it doesn't matter how much potential may be there you need to move on.

cinn and memphis to big 12 north

coog high aint going anywhere

Too many Texas teams already in the Big 12 to let another Texas team in.

(12-07-2015 09:28 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  B10 has no reason to expand right now. Not going to happen this year, likely wont happen for 3 or more years.

What?

(12-07-2015 09:30 AM)isidnirb Wrote:  But who has the most beds on campus?

Let's not do this crap again, the American as a whole did great this year. Let's enjoy the league success. No need for worthless pissing contest.

Agreed - As much as I want UH to go to the B12 or Pac12, the AAC whipped a lot of ass this year and has 3 teams in the top 25.

Everyone on this board will make a point as to why they should be in a P5 conference and most of them make sense. But, right now, let's be happy that we are far and away, the best of the G5 conferences, and our teams are performing against P5 teams very, very well.

GO AMERICA!

(12-07-2015 10:13 AM)eco challenged Wrote:  Too many Texas teams already in the Big 12 to let another Texas team in.

The Big 12 uses 4 schools (OU, Tech, Baylor, TCU) to dominate the Dallas market, and has only 1 lagging presence in Houston (UT). It's your line of thinking (rather.. talking point) that has turned Houston into an SEC town.

(12-07-2015 09:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  This past week drove two nails in the coffin of any short-term Big 12 expansion.

First, Oklahoma made the playoffs, debunking the notion that not having a CCG is some kind of fatal flaw in the Big 12's current structure concerning making the playoffs.

Second, with the release of the B1G's proposal, it is now clear that the Big 12 will get what it wants - the ability to create a CCG while having just ten teams, because the B1G proposal accepts that as well. There is no P5 opposition to the basic notion of having a CCG with 10 teams.

Big 10 is blocking the Big 12. They want to make it hard on them, and Boren saw the writing on the wall on this issue. That is why he is calling for the Big 12 to expand. He knows only being at 10 will hurt them in the long run.

There are so many people who make conjecture on expansion without fully understanding why many of the pieces moved. If ANYBODY on this board thinks that Academics wont matter, then you havent been paying attention.

Texas, Kansas and ISU are all AAU. As much as everyone likes to think that the AD makes the choice as to who will be in the conference, the truth is that it is the Presidents of each school who cast the vote. Kansas and Texas have both been vocal in stating that they dislike the lower rank that the Big 12 has when being compared academically to the others. The Pac12, Big 10 and ACC all share research... thats very attractive to them. AAU is freaking elite. USF is on the list of schools being watched and advised. We have met the majority of requirements for AAU and at best were probably 20 years away from acceptance. hell, Georgia tech was quliafied for AAU for nearly a decade before being invited.... so yes, those three schools REALLY want high academics. Not to mention that Baylor, TCU and Oklahoma are all considered to be very good academic schools.

Market will play a big role in this expansion also. If I were to guess the order of importance it would be Market, On field success and Academics basically tied for first place and all other factors a distant fourth.

This is why they havent expanded because there isnt a single team outside of BYU that gives them all those things.... and BYU did an amazing job of pissing off Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas with their demands and arrogance.... but I can see them being an expansion candidate.

Lets also not forget their the Big 12 commish did state that they are exploring models that go beyond 12. The Big 12 did buy the rights to the Big 14 and Big 16. If I had to guess, I do think that they will end up going to 14 if they expand. We already learned that ESPN and Fox have agreed to increase the payment at current level for expansion.

For now, Its all moot since they are waiting to see if they get the waiver. If they do, then we all get on board the American cause its gonna be our only ride for a while. If denied, well this board is gonna go to hell in a handbasket real quick but lets all not forget that there are MANY teams that could get an invite.... the proof is that the very maligned Tulane was on the short list for expansion last time. So before we all go and claim that some team doesnt have a chance just remember... Tulane. Let that soak in.

(12-07-2015 10:05 AM)panicstricken Wrote:  cinn and memphis to big 12 north

coog high aint going anywhere

Cincy can't change who they are. No way BigXII ever takes a regional school in the same system as Ohio State. And even if they tried, Ohio State would never allow the University of Ohio system to sanction it. Sorry but thems the brakes.

Memphis is a promising pick but they aren't ready. Yet.

Cliff notes for next 10 pages of posts:
My team is the best. Your team sucks.

(12-07-2015 10:27 AM)Enviro5609 Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 10:05 AM)panicstricken Wrote:  cinn and memphis to big 12 north

coog high aint going anywhere

Cincy can't change who they are. No way BigXII ever takes a regional school in the same system as Ohio State. And even if they tried, Ohio State would never allow the University of Ohio system to sanction it. Sorry but thems the brakes.

Memphis is a promising pick but they aren't ready. Yet.

Cincy nearly got in the last time. They were VERY close to being in with Lville. Id put a paycheck that they are in the top 4 teams discussed.

Like I said, there will be probably 10-12 teams looked at strongly and all have different levels of merit. I can easily guess Big 10, ACC and Pac 12 moves since they are predictable in the way they expand and their culture. The Big 12 is a totally different beast.

I would say this regarding less than 10 team CCG: You have to choose #1 and #2 (no manipulating your CCG to help playoff chances) AND if you choose to do it, you HAVE to do it every year. No cherry picking "this year we'll have a CCG but not this year" even if a CCG would, like this year, result in a repeat of a game played less than a week ago.

Put in those two rules and I'm satisfied

(12-07-2015 10:23 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 09:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  This past week drove two nails in the coffin of any short-term Big 12 expansion.

First, Oklahoma made the playoffs, debunking the notion that not having a CCG is some kind of fatal flaw in the Big 12's current structure concerning making the playoffs.

Second, with the release of the B1G's proposal, it is now clear that the Big 12 will get what it wants - the ability to create a CCG while having just ten teams, because the B1G proposal accepts that as well. There is no P5 opposition to the basic notion of having a CCG with 10 teams.

Big 10 is blocking the Big 12. They want to make it hard on them, and Boren saw the writing on the wall on this issue. That is why he is calling for the Big 12 to expand. He knows only being at 10 will hurt them in the long run.

They aren't blocking the Big 12. All the Big 12 would have to do is form divisions. That's easy to do.