(12-12-2015 12:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Here is what I can say about the conjecture in this thread.

1) The B12 is not expanding anytime soon. Holding a championship game as a 10 team conference they may do that soon but going to 12 isn't happening. With the market for TV rights down this is not the right time at all to cash in.

2) Cincinnati's football program is in trouble. Three years ago they just come out of a decade recruiting well in a BCS conference and hired Tommy Tuberville. Today Cincinnati is 6-6 and locked into Tuberville while their conference mates have upgraded coaching talent. That Big East talent is graduating and they very much look the part of an average AAC team. UC won't be the first pick ahead of Houston or Memphis if they are the ones who are better on the football field.

3) Old Dominion doesn't bring value to the AAC. They have no reputation at the FBS level. You may as well be pitching Coastal Carolina to the AAC. Both schools are in a beach-urbanized area that isn't a traditional sports market.

Some of the views represented in this thread are 18 months to 2 years out of date.

Much truth to this; however, you are overlooking the fact that we were in a BCS conference and won or shared it 4 out of the 9 years.

(12-12-2015 12:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Here is what I can say about the conjecture in this thread.

1) The B12 is not expanding anytime soon. Holding a championship game as a 10 team conference they may do that soon but going to 12 isn't happening. With the market for TV rights down this is not the right time at all to cash in.

2) Cincinnati's football program is in trouble. Three years ago they just come out of a decade recruiting well in a BCS conference and hired Tommy Tuberville. Today Cincinnati is 6-6 and locked into Tuberville while their conference mates have upgraded coaching talent. That Big East talent is graduating and they very much look the part of an average AAC team. UC won't be the first pick ahead of Houston or Memphis if they are the ones who are better on the football field.

3) Old Dominion doesn't bring value to the AAC. They have no reputation at the FBS level. You may as well be pitching Coastal Carolina to the AAC. Both schools are in a beach-urbanized area that isn't a traditional sports market.

Some of the views represented in this thread are 18 months to 2 years out of date.

Old Dominion does have cred since they are an academics in high research, plus they have been good in basketball at times. They are better in that department than a school like FIU, FAU, or UAB. Their football is still winning, and they did had an award winning QB a few years ago. They do bring a tv market as well.

(12-11-2015 04:26 PM)TempleOwlsRising Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 11:45 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 07:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 12:18 PM)SDSU-Alum2003 Wrote:  Who will the AAC back-fill with when the conference loses two of either Cincy, Memphis or Houston when the BIG XII expands by two teams to get to 12?

If Houston leaves expect Rice to get the call. Same media market, and Rice is an excellent institutional fit with SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa in their division.

If Memphis leaves, expect another "western" addition. UTSA would have the largest native market, but has little FBS history, and would be the third team in Texas. UTEP is in the wrong time zone. Given their distance from Cincinnati, Northern Illinois could work here and of course it is the biggest market grab; it may be a question of whether NIU could make it work monetarily. Middle Tennessee would be the next biggest market grab (Nashville) but has little history with what is essentially the original C-USA. Southern Miss has a very small market, but has the most history. UAB would be a candidate if the program had not been shut down, because they have the history with C-USA 1.0, the academic reputation (higher than the Tuscaloosa campus), and a decent media market. South Alabama and the pre-split Big East talked but like UTSA they have little FBS history. Rice could be an option even if Houston is still in the league.

If Cincinnati leaves, the path of least resistance is UMass - no exit fees, wants to join, and willing to invest in basketball. It will be a question of whether the other 10 members want another northeastern school, as this effectively makes Temple and ECU travel partners in some sports. Replacing the presence in Ohio may be a priority, so Akron, Ohio, Toldeo, or even Miami (OH) could be on the table; Akron is in Cleveland DMA, which is a Top 20 market. Marshall works somewhat here as well given their location, and they do have history with the schools now in the American. The ultimate addition would be Army, but they aren't coming, and it would "break" the Army/Navy game unless if the American was willing to have it never be a conference game. Northern Illinois could work in the East as well if they were interested, but again, they aren't close to anyone in the American.

I have said for a while i think NIU and the AAC could be beneficial for their TV contract long term with the addition of the Chicago market.

And no, I'm not claiming NIU "owns" the Chicago market. I'm claiming NIU gets you access into the Chicago market and honestly that's what counts. Eyes on the TV screens. Would be big for the AAC with their Thursday night games to pull the Chicago eyes to a local winning program since the Bears are so bad right now too. Chicago embraced the Huskies for the orange bowl, i think they could do it again if they were made more available instead of MACtion nights *puke*

Would probably help attendance too. Thursday night games are easier to attend than Tuesday night games.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

If Cinci and Memphis left -- I would hope we would focus the additions in the northern or east coast part of the country as its very hard for most Temple/UConn alumni to get behind playing teams so far away.

Not many options: NIU, UMass, ODU, and UNCC. That's really about it. Honestly, I have no idea what would happen.

I would just hope and pray that if realignment starts up that Temple is snatched up by a P5 -- we've got the best market and largest alumni bases of any G5. Honestly, we are probably one of the only a few schools left that could have potential to bring future value to a P5 TV contract. But who knows...what will happen, will happen.

I feel like Temple needs an OCS before a P5 league takes another chance with them. Last i heard there was some rumblings going on with private funding and some subsidizing through city funding trying to re-open that possibility so hopefully for you guys that becomes a reality

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(12-12-2015 12:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Here is what I can say about the conjecture in this thread.

2) Cincinnati's football program is in trouble. Three years ago they just come out of a decade recruiting well in a BCS conference and hired Tommy Tuberville. Today Cincinnati is 6-6 and locked into Tuberville while their conference mates have upgraded coaching talent. That Big East talent is graduating and they very much look the part of an average AAC team. UC won't be the first pick ahead of Houston or Memphis if they are the ones who are better on the football field.

OK, you jumped the "stupid" shark right there...

Cincinnati's football program is not "in trouble." Switch the coach out and we have a HUGELY potent offense and a decent defense. We just completed a stadium upgrade that makes Nippert a state-of-the-art facility while retaining the essential elements that make it a classic. Fan support has been outstanding despite a disappointing performance this year and a conference that is uninspiring, setting attendance records for Nippert.

When the coaching change comes, UC football will be just fine. That's literally the only thing holding us back at this moment.

(12-09-2015 04:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  BYU is not getting added for oh so many reasons, but if you don't believe that, believe it when McMurphy constantly says they're looking East not West.

There are all kinds of rumors that swirl around. Rumors are easy to fake, but attendance is much harder to fake. Here are BYU's attendance numbers and ranks that I could find on the NCAA site. I also listed the next few teams that had a little less attendance than BYU:

2015 58,532
2014 57,141 32 WVU, UNC, NC St., Okie St.
2013 61,225 28 Kentucky, Ole Miss
2012 61,161 26 Washington, Oregon, Texas Tech, Ole Miss
2011 60,265 26 Kentucky, Oregon, AZ St, Oklahoma St.
2010 61,381 27 UCLA, Oregon, North Carolina
2009 64,236 27 Missouri, Illinois, Cal
2008 64,102 27 ASU, Washington, Illinois, Cal, Oregon, West Virginia
2007 64,497 27 Cal, ASU, WVU, Mizzou, Virginia, Purdue, Oregon
2006 60,524 26 WVU, Oregon, UVA, Washington
2005 58,204 32 WVU, Ole Miss , AZ, Mizzou
2004 58,475 33 Ole Miss, Oregon, NC St., WVU, Ttech
2003 61,501 26 Virginia, Pitt, Purdue, Miami, Oregon, UCLA
2002 62,176 25 Iowa, Arkansas, Vtech, Ole Miss, Purdue
2001 60,450 26 USC, UVA, Illinois, UNC
2000 60,619 25 Miami, USC, UVA, Illinois, Mizzou
1999 65,185 22 Purdue, Iowa, Mizzou, USC, ASU, Arkansas

That results in average attendance of 61,157 and an average rank of 27.19, through good years and bad. Even if BYU were totally awful at football, this kind of fan support would still get them into consideration of the Big 12.

If you want to look at basketball attendance, we were ranked #9 last year. In the last 44 years since the basketball arena opened, it has averaged 16,630.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/86564...tml?pg=all

The combination of 60K+ for football and 16K+ for basketball is really hard to match, especially over decades. If the existing P5 schools are not getting that amount of support, given all the advantages they have, why would some team who never demonstrated such support in the past be able to build to that level once they receive the golden ticket to a P5 school?

You can even look at media market size. The Salt Lake DMM is ranked 34, Cincy is 36, Memphis is 50. Additionally, BYU is big in the Phoenix market (12), Denver (17), and Las Vegas (40). That is some serious penetration into multiple top 40 markets, and something that could make a Tier-3 combined network earn money without UT, OU, and KU.

I'm not saying the Big 12 are going to take BYU. What I will say is that if the Big 12 is serious about adding schools, they are definitely going to take a look at BYU. There is too much there to be blithely dismissed.

(12-13-2015 02:10 AM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 04:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  BYU is not getting added for oh so many reasons, but if you don't believe that, believe it when McMurphy constantly says they're looking East not West.

There are all kinds of rumors that swirl around. Rumors are easy to fake, but attendance is much harder to fake. Here are BYU's attendance numbers and ranks that I could find on the NCAA site. I also listed the next few teams that had a little less attendance than BYU:

2015 58,532
2014 57,141 32 WVU, UNC, NC St., Okie St.
2013 61,225 28 Kentucky, Ole Miss
2012 61,161 26 Washington, Oregon, Texas Tech, Ole Miss
2011 60,265 26 Kentucky, Oregon, AZ St, Oklahoma St.
2010 61,381 27 UCLA, Oregon, North Carolina
2009 64,236 27 Missouri, Illinois, Cal
2008 64,102 27 ASU, Washington, Illinois, Cal, Oregon, West Virginia
2007 64,497 27 Cal, ASU, WVU, Mizzou, Virginia, Purdue, Oregon
2006 60,524 26 WVU, Oregon, UVA, Washington
2005 58,204 32 WVU, Ole Miss , AZ, Mizzou
2004 58,475 33 Ole Miss, Oregon, NC St., WVU, Ttech
2003 61,501 26 Virginia, Pitt, Purdue, Miami, Oregon, UCLA
2002 62,176 25 Iowa, Arkansas, Vtech, Ole Miss, Purdue
2001 60,450 26 USC, UVA, Illinois, UNC
2000 60,619 25 Miami, USC, UVA, Illinois, Mizzou
1999 65,185 22 Purdue, Iowa, Mizzou, USC, ASU, Arkansas

That results in average attendance of 61,157 and an average rank of 27.19, through good years and bad. Even if BYU were totally awful at football, this kind of fan support would still get them into consideration of the Big 12.

If you want to look at basketball attendance, we were ranked #9 last year. In the last 44 years since the basketball arena opened, it has averaged 16,630.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/86564...tml?pg=all

The combination of 60K+ for football and 16K+ for basketball is really hard to match, especially over decades. If the existing P5 schools are not getting that amount of support, given all the advantages they have, why would some team who never demonstrated such support in the past be able to build to that level once they receive the golden ticket to a P5 school?

You can even look at media market size. The Salt Lake DMM is ranked 34, Cincy is 36, Memphis is 50. Additionally, BYU is big in the Phoenix market (12), Denver (17), and Las Vegas (40). That is some serious penetration into multiple top 40 markets, and something that could make a Tier-3 combined network earn money without UT, OU, and KU.

I'm not saying the Big 12 are going to take BYU. What I will say is that if the Big 12 is serious about adding schools, they are definitely going to take a look at BYU. There is too much there to be blithely dismissed.

Big 12 should not have added West Virginia, but added BYU back than. Since West Virginia is in, BYU is not even in the picture. Big 12 is going east to get the AAC schools.

(12-12-2015 08:57 AM)rosewater Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 12:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Here is what I can say about the conjecture in this thread.

1) The B12 is not expanding anytime soon. Holding a championship game as a 10 team conference they may do that soon but going to 12 isn't happening. With the market for TV rights down this is not the right time at all to cash in.

2) Cincinnati's football program is in trouble. Three years ago they just come out of a decade recruiting well in a BCS conference and hired Tommy Tuberville. Today Cincinnati is 6-6 and locked into Tuberville while their conference mates have upgraded coaching talent. That Big East talent is graduating and they very much look the part of an average AAC team. UC won't be the first pick ahead of Houston or Memphis if they are the ones who are better on the football field.

3) Old Dominion doesn't bring value to the AAC. They have no reputation at the FBS level. You may as well be pitching Coastal Carolina to the AAC. Both schools are in a beach-urbanized area that isn't a traditional sports market.

Some of the views represented in this thread are 18 months to 2 years out of date.

Much truth to this; however, you are overlooking the fact that we were in a BCS conference and won or shared it 4 out of the 9 years.

Getting into the Big East built the Cincinnati football program up, there is no question in that.

UC tried to sustain with facility and coaching investments post Big East. They've been sitting on the grocery shelf for too long. Expansion is a what have you done lately thing.

I will say this, if the B12 is desperate enough to need 5-6 teams its hard to see UC excluded. UTSA, Houston, SMU, Memphis, NIU ect.

Getting a P5 invite has less to do with winning and more to do with attendance and tv ratings, as well as a desirable geographic location (which UC has). Do well in those areas the it won't matter if your team is 6-6 or 12-0 (although winning is a nice bonus!) Examples: South Carolina, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Maryland and Rutgers - none of them was what you'd call a football powerhouse when their current conference invited them to join.

(12-10-2015 05:49 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Wait. Hold everything. Memphis is building a bridge over some railroad tracks.

They get a Big 12 bid for sure now.

What's the matter dude ,you mad?

Cincy recruiting class ratings per 247:

2009 - 56 - Kelly's last class
2010 - 53
2011 - 47
2012 - 51
2013 - 63 - Tubs first class
2014 - 64
2015 - 68
2016 - 65 (subject to change)

I wouldn't say Cincy is in "trouble." But the talent level has dropped off somewhat under Tubs. He inherited a 3-loss team and lost 4, 4, and 5 in his first three years.

The problem is, from a Cincy perspective, is that there is little hope on the field or in the recruiting to suggest that Tubs can produce an 10+ win season.

But Cincy is not in danger of having losing records.

(12-13-2015 04:42 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 08:57 AM)rosewater Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 12:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Here is what I can say about the conjecture in this thread.

1) The B12 is not expanding anytime soon. Holding a championship game as a 10 team conference they may do that soon but going to 12 isn't happening. With the market for TV rights down this is not the right time at all to cash in.

2) Cincinnati's football program is in trouble. Three years ago they just come out of a decade recruiting well in a BCS conference and hired Tommy Tuberville. Today Cincinnati is 6-6 and locked into Tuberville while their conference mates have upgraded coaching talent. That Big East talent is graduating and they very much look the part of an average AAC team. UC won't be the first pick ahead of Houston or Memphis if they are the ones who are better on the football field.

3) Old Dominion doesn't bring value to the AAC. They have no reputation at the FBS level. You may as well be pitching Coastal Carolina to the AAC. Both schools are in a beach-urbanized area that isn't a traditional sports market.

Some of the views represented in this thread are 18 months to 2 years out of date.

Much truth to this; however, you are overlooking the fact that we were in a BCS conference and won or shared it 4 out of the 9 years.

Getting into the Big East built the Cincinnati football program up, there is no question in that.

UC tried to sustain with facility and coaching investments post Big East. They've been sitting on the grocery shelf for too long. Expansion is a what have you done lately thing.

I will say this, if the B12 is desperate enough to need 5-6 teams its hard to see UC excluded. UTSA, Houston, SMU, Memphis, NIU ect.

Lose all credibility with this statement. See Pitt, Rutgers, and Syracuse. The B12 is not going to pick Memphis or Houston based on a single season or two. I have a strong suspicion that Memphis falls off a cliff next year based on the loss of Lynch and their coach. Their recruiting has also been abysmal.

(12-13-2015 08:33 AM)rosewater Wrote:  The B12 is not going to pick Memphis or Houston based on a single season or two.

The Big 12 is not going to pick Memphis at all. Academics.

As for Houston, we've had eight 8+ win seasons in the last ten years including four 10+ win seasons during that stretch.

If we are picked, it won't be because of a single season or two.

(12-13-2015 02:10 AM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 04:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  BYU is not getting added for oh so many reasons, but if you don't believe that, believe it when McMurphy constantly says they're looking East not West.

There are all kinds of rumors that swirl around. Rumors are easy to fake, but attendance is much harder to fake.

Location is also hard to fake. BYU is too far and creates another island (which is in the wrong direction).

(12-13-2015 02:10 AM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 04:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  BYU is not getting added for oh so many reasons, but if you don't believe that, believe it when McMurphy constantly says they're looking East not West.

There are all kinds of rumors that swirl around. Rumors are easy to fake, but attendance is much harder to fake. Here are BYU's attendance numbers and ranks that I could find on the NCAA site. I also listed the next few teams that had a little less attendance than BYU:

2015 58,532
2014 57,141 32 WVU, UNC, NC St., Okie St.
2013 61,225 28 Kentucky, Ole Miss
2012 61,161 26 Washington, Oregon, Texas Tech, Ole Miss
2011 60,265 26 Kentucky, Oregon, AZ St, Oklahoma St.
2010 61,381 27 UCLA, Oregon, North Carolina
2009 64,236 27 Missouri, Illinois, Cal
2008 64,102 27 ASU, Washington, Illinois, Cal, Oregon, West Virginia
2007 64,497 27 Cal, ASU, WVU, Mizzou, Virginia, Purdue, Oregon
2006 60,524 26 WVU, Oregon, UVA, Washington
2005 58,204 32 WVU, Ole Miss , AZ, Mizzou
2004 58,475 33 Ole Miss, Oregon, NC St., WVU, Ttech
2003 61,501 26 Virginia, Pitt, Purdue, Miami, Oregon, UCLA
2002 62,176 25 Iowa, Arkansas, Vtech, Ole Miss, Purdue
2001 60,450 26 USC, UVA, Illinois, UNC
2000 60,619 25 Miami, USC, UVA, Illinois, Mizzou
1999 65,185 22 Purdue, Iowa, Mizzou, USC, ASU, Arkansas

That results in average attendance of 61,157 and an average rank of 27.19, through good years and bad. Even if BYU were totally awful at football, this kind of fan support would still get them into consideration of the Big 12.

If you want to look at basketball attendance, we were ranked #9 last year. In the last 44 years since the basketball arena opened, it has averaged 16,630.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/86564...tml?pg=all

The combination of 60K+ for football and 16K+ for basketball is really hard to match, especially over decades. If the existing P5 schools are not getting that amount of support, given all the advantages they have, why would some team who never demonstrated such support in the past be able to build to that level once they receive the golden ticket to a P5 school?

You can even look at media market size. The Salt Lake DMM is ranked 34, Cincy is 36, Memphis is 50. Additionally, BYU is big in the Phoenix market (12), Denver (17), and Las Vegas (40). That is some serious penetration into multiple top 40 markets, and something that could make a Tier-3 combined network earn money without UT, OU, and KU.

I'm not saying the Big 12 are going to take BYU. What I will say is that if the Big 12 is serious about adding schools, they are definitely going to take a look at BYU. There is too much there to be blithely dismissed.

It's a good market for sure and a school that has a great history but they aren't being added. The B12 is looking east for expansion if it happens, not west.

(12-13-2015 09:07 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 08:33 AM)rosewater Wrote:  The B12 is not going to pick Memphis or Houston based on a single season or two.

The Big 12 is not going to pick Memphis at all. Academics.

As for Houston, we've had eight 8+ win seasons in the last ten years including four 10+ win seasons during that stretch.

If we are picked, it won't be because of a single season or two.

Fine.
"Your d*** is bigger than mine."

There. I said it.
Does it make you happy?
Can we move on?

(12-09-2015 07:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If Memphis leaves, expect another "western" addition. UTSA would have the largest native market, but has little FBS history, and would be the third team in Texas. UTEP is in the wrong time zone. Given their distance from Cincinnati, Northern Illinois could work here and of course it is the biggest market grab; it may be a question of whether NIU could make it work monetarily. Middle Tennessee would be the next biggest market grab (Nashville) but has little history with what is essentially the original C-USA. Southern Miss has a very small market, but has the most history. UAB would be a candidate if the program had not been shut down, because they have the history with C-USA 1.0, the academic reputation (higher than the Tuscaloosa campus), and a decent media market.

In general, I think if the AAC has to expand or backfill, Southern Miss is the next team they go after, because they were the anchor of the original C-USA. However if Memphis and/or Cincinnati leave, that may change it, because they are the one with the most history with USM.

(12-13-2015 09:07 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 08:33 AM)rosewater Wrote:  The B12 is not going to pick Memphis or Houston based on a single season or two.

The Big 12 is not going to pick Memphis at all. Academics.

As for Houston, we've had eight 8+ win seasons in the last ten years including four 10+ win seasons during that stretch.

If we are picked, it won't be because of a single season or two.

You need to go talk to a credible source. U of M's academics may have been a concern, but recent success, continued $ support, private, public, and corporate have the Tigers moving in the right direction. Your dismissive attitude is unwarranted, the competition is real and the UofM is right there with UH, if not ahead.