There's 3 parts to being a good college coach - recruiting, coaching on defense, and coaching on offense.

First, the obvious - Mick is a pretty decent-to-good recruiter.

Since his 3rd year here I've said that Mick is a top-10 defensive coach. He's truly elite.

What has been lacking is his ability to coach offense. It's been painful to watch the Bearcats on offense for the past 9 years. Despite that, Cronin's been good enough at the other two facets of coaching to get to the NCAAs five years in a row and win a few games there. I've always said that if he was just an average offensive coach, Cronin would perennially compete for Final Four berths.

This year's team is the first Cronin team at UC to feature a competent offense. We actually have a decent offensive scheme, good passing, a post presence, and some good shooters. I didn't watch the GW game but we've shown good offense in both the Nebraska & Butler games so I don't think it's a fluke. This has me very excited about this team's potential this year.

Two years ago when we won AAC we had 1 guy who I'd call a good offensive player. This year we have 8 guys who can score 12-15 points on any given night.

I think Cronin is a great coach but I would agree he's a better defensive coach. That said I don't think Coach K, Bo Ryan, or Pitino could have coached our recent teams into top 75 offenses. Recruiting has greatly improved over the last three years and it's showing in the scoring.

Nobody could blame the offense for last night.

yeah, i don't think the offense has changed much. still run ball screens and motion.

we just hit more shots cuz we have smarter/better players.

Yeah, Mick was REALLY defensive about this in a post game interview. Something like, "I'd like to hear from all of those geniuses who criticize my offense now." No rebounding, turnovers, and D cost us last night.

(12-03-2015 01:54 PM)JPBearcat3 Wrote:  yeah, i don't think the offense has changed much. still run ball screens and motion.

we just hit more shots cuz we have smarter/better players.

The ball screens still drive me nuts. If the guards aren't going to use them properly they are completely pointless.

(12-03-2015 01:54 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Yeah, Mick was REALLY defensive about this in a post game interview. Something like, "I'd like to hear from all of those geniuses who criticize my offense now." No rebounding, turnovers, and D cost us last night.

I don't blame him after all the crap he's dealt with. First, he had to hear how terrible of a coach he was and that was he is ruining our proud program. Then we started to have success and he heard he couldn't coach offense. Then he heard he couldn't recruit offensively gifted players. Then he heard he wasn't bringing in guys that had that 'Huggins' swagger (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean). I'd have a chip on my shoulder too.

I get that we want to be competing for national championships, but our fanbase has been VERY ungrateful for what Mick has done overall. He still shouldn't be saying that in press conferences, but after that emotionally charged game, I'll gladly give him a pass. Especially after how he handled the most emotionally charged situation he's had: the x brawl.

We lost that game last night on defense, not offensive execution. I mean the turnovers hurt big time, but that's not an offensive scheme issue.

Mick has a lot of offensive talent this year. KenPom has us up to 40 in adjO after last night, highest in Mick's tenure. Last night's adjusted offensive efficiency was quite high...

(12-03-2015 02:25 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 01:54 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Yeah, Mick was REALLY defensive about this in a post game interview. Something like, "I'd like to hear from all of those geniuses who criticize my offense now." No rebounding, turnovers, and D cost us last night.

I don't blame him after all the crap he's dealt with. First, he had to hear how terrible of a coach he was and that was he is ruining our proud program. Then we started to have success and he heard he couldn't coach offense. Then he heard he couldn't recruit offensively gifted players. Then he heard he wasn't bringing in guys that had that 'Huggins' swagger (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean). I'd have a chip on my shoulder too.

I get that we want to be competing for national championships, but our fanbase has been VERY ungrateful for what Mick has done overall. He still shouldn't be saying that in press conferences, but after that emotionally charged game, I'll gladly give him a pass. Especially after how he handled the most emotionally charged situation he's had: the x brawl.

We lost that game last night on defense, not offensive execution. I mean the turnovers hurt big time, but that's not an offensive scheme issue.

Mick has a lot of offensive talent this year. KenPom has us up to 40 in adjO after last night, highest in Mick's tenure. Last night's adjusted offensive efficiency was quite high...

Also dropped from 3 to 9 in adjusted defense...which is a huge drop for us. That's the difference in UC being a top 10-12 team and a top 20 team. Have to play better defense (but again I do think Butler just had some great shot making at times last night).

Im not worried about our offense.

In fact Im not worried period. This is a good team we have. You cant win em all in basketball and I think we are in for a great March. We have thhe guards, Center, and defense to make a deep run.

(12-03-2015 02:33 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 02:25 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 01:54 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Yeah, Mick was REALLY defensive about this in a post game interview. Something like, "I'd like to hear from all of those geniuses who criticize my offense now." No rebounding, turnovers, and D cost us last night.

I don't blame him after all the crap he's dealt with. First, he had to hear how terrible of a coach he was and that was he is ruining our proud program. Then we started to have success and he heard he couldn't coach offense. Then he heard he couldn't recruit offensively gifted players. Then he heard he wasn't bringing in guys that had that 'Huggins' swagger (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean). I'd have a chip on my shoulder too.

I get that we want to be competing for national championships, but our fanbase has been VERY ungrateful for what Mick has done overall. He still shouldn't be saying that in press conferences, but after that emotionally charged game, I'll gladly give him a pass. Especially after how he handled the most emotionally charged situation he's had: the x brawl.

We lost that game last night on defense, not offensive execution. I mean the turnovers hurt big time, but that's not an offensive scheme issue.

Mick has a lot of offensive talent this year. KenPom has us up to 40 in adjO after last night, highest in Mick's tenure. Last night's adjusted offensive efficiency was quite high...

Also dropped from 3 to 9 in adjusted defense...which is a huge drop for us. That's the difference in UC being a top 10-12 team and a top 20 team. Have to play better defense (but again I do think Butler just had some great shot making at times last night).

Completely agree. Defensive execution cost us that game last night. Unless you are expecting perfect offensive efficiency, nitpicking individual possessions from last night makes no sense.

(12-03-2015 02:38 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Im not worried about our offense.

In fact Im not worried period. This is a good team we have. You cant win em all in basketball and I think we are in for a great March. We have thhe guards, Center, and defense to make a deep run.

Agree. I'm not worried about this team. I'm just PO'd they lost last night. A game that could have made an impact on their seed line and overall resume come March. Better seed gives you an easier path to the later rounds. The X and ISU games just became huge for this team. Will be limited chances to impress in conference with the dregs that is the bottom half of the league.

(12-03-2015 02:40 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 02:38 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Im not worried about our offense.

In fact Im not worried period. This is a good team we have. You cant win em all in basketball and I think we are in for a great March. We have thhe guards, Center, and defense to make a deep run.

Agree. I'm not worried about this team. I'm just PO'd they lost last night. A game that could have made an impact on their seed line and overall resume come March. Better seed gives you an easier path to the later rounds. The X and ISU games just became huge for this team. Will be limited chances to impress in conference with the dregs that is the bottom half of the league.

This

i have a hunch we will be ready for X and ISU

plus we will be underdogs....nothing to lose

I never worry in December. The March team and the December team are never the same team.

The loss is most attributable to one thing. TURNOVERS!

On the point about recruiting, I do think recruiting has overall been less than I expected. I don't know of it is because of no longer being in the old BE, but it seems we are not involved with the higher level recruits that he was involved with earlier in his tenure. I don't expect to.compete with ky and Duke, but would expect us to have top 10-20 recruiting classes.

To MC's credit, he has done pretty well with what he has brought in for the most part. I think this year's and next year's freshman seem to be more offensive minded (Evans, JJ, Cumberland).

Lack of true PG has been a big reason for TO's over the years. I am hoping that JJ can be that guy by his soph/jr year.

I'm sorry, but I can't understand how a coach that has been to 1 SS can be considered a 'great' coach.

Until MC actually wins when it matters he's at most a decent-to-good head coach. I think it's easy to mistake the general ineptitude that is prevalent in CBB today for a skill attributable to Cronin. That's not to say that he's not talented defensively, because I do grant him that, however I'm by no means sold that he's elite in this regard. He's good, but it's not like we're watching him clash with elite offensive minds that can test his ability.

All that said, we weren't going undefeated so I'm not overly concerned about an L to Butler. Let's just see what happens in March. I hate that this is such a morbid/ cynical take.....but i've been watching UC hoops since i was at school in the mid-90s. Sparkling regular season records contrasted against disappointing post seasons is kinda a reoccurring theme.




mc

(12-03-2015 07:19 PM)jarr Wrote:  I don't expect to.compete with ky and Duke, but would expect us to have top 10-20 recruiting classes.

Serious question: Why? Other than our coach, what exactly do you think UC is selling that the other 350 schools in the Sagarin are not? The chance to play in front of 4-12K in 5/3rd? The practice court? The weight room? The unique academics? The uniforms? The conference that nobody grew up watching? The tv contract (CBSNN for the Butler game - really?) Our NCs from over 50 years ago? Nearby Chipotle?

I'm not saying UC is a slouch in any of the above, but I"m not sure we're clearly top 10-20 in any (much less all of them) either. Sure playing time is a big factor but that's true anywhere. I'm not sure kids really care much that Oscar or even Kenyon went here. Winning is big - but that basically goes back to the coaches. Teammate compatibility could help, but that's basically coach chosen too. NBA future? (We ain't selling much recently and again that kind of goes back to the coach. )

So why do you expect us to have top 10-20 recruiting classes compared to the rest of say the top 80 or so programs for example?

(12-03-2015 09:29 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 07:19 PM)jarr Wrote:  I don't expect to.compete with ky and Duke, but would expect us to have top 10-20 recruiting classes.

Serious question: Why? Other than our coach, what exactly do you think UC is selling that the other 350 schools in the Sagarin are not? The chance to play in front of 4-12K in 5/3rd? The practice court? The weight room? The unique academics? The uniforms? The conference? The tv contract (CBSNN for the Butler game - really?) Our NCs from over 50 years ago? Nearby Chipotle?

I'm not saying UC is a slouch in any of the above, but I"m not sure we're clearly top 10-20 in any (much less all of them) either. Sure playing time is a big factor but that's true anywhere. I'm not sure kids really care much that Oscar or even Kenyon went here. Winning is big - but that basically goes back to the coaches. Teammate compatibility could help, but that's basically coach chosen too. NBA future? (We ain't selling much recently and again that goes back to the coach. )

So why do you expect us to have top 10-20 recruiting classes compared to the rest of say the top 80 or so programs for example?

Thanks Hawkeye! You have convinced me that having season tix to Bearcat BB is a futile endeavor. No more.

(12-03-2015 09:57 PM)gerhard911 Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 09:29 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 07:19 PM)jarr Wrote:  I don't expect to.compete with ky and Duke, but would expect us to have top 10-20 recruiting classes.

Serious question: Why? Other than our coach, what exactly do you think UC is selling that the other 350 schools in the Sagarin are not? The chance to play in front of 4-12K in 5/3rd? The practice court? The weight room? The unique academics? The uniforms? The conference? The tv contract (CBSNN for the Butler game - really?) Our NCs from over 50 years ago? Nearby Chipotle?

I'm not saying UC is a slouch in any of the above, but I"m not sure we're clearly top 10-20 in any (much less all of them) either. Sure playing time is a big factor but that's true anywhere. I'm not sure kids really care much that Oscar or even Kenyon went here. Winning is big - but that basically goes back to the coaches. Teammate compatibility could help, but that's basically coach chosen too. NBA future? (We ain't selling much recently and again that pretty much goes back to the coach. )

So why do you expect us to have top 10-20 recruiting classes compared to the rest of say the top 80 or so programs for example?

Thanks Hawkeye! You have convinced me that having season tix to Bearcat BB is a futile endeavor. No more.

Haha. I think you may have missed my point, but I want to give Jarr and others a chance to respond if they wish.