Do any of the schools on the list charge for student tickets? I bet not many.

(11-17-2015 07:50 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  Do any of the schools on the list charge for student tickets? I bet not many.

Good point. And also probably demonstrates how difficult it is to do an apples to apples comparison of all these numbers.

I recall 100 years ago when I attended USL, we got into the games on our student ID. At the same time, I'm sure athletics was not directly supported by a student athletic fee, as is the case today.....though all students obviously paid something towards athletics or they wouldn't get into the games solely on an ID. Right?

The idea that every aspect of student fees must be approved by a vote of the student body is asinine. I was editor of the Mercer Cluster (the student newspaper) during some of my time there. If the student body voted on the newspaper's budget, I'd say there's a pretty good chance I wouldn't have had a job, and we may not have had a newspaper. As Panama has been pointing out, it's not like college football is unique in its spot as something that students pay for but may not check the box for if given a list of fees like it's a sushi menu.

One could argue that the magnitude of fees associated with football puts it into a different realm. One can also argue that the magnitude of impact on a university similarly places it into a separate area of discussion.

I can be convinced that establishing football has an overall negative impact at some universities, but it's going to take more than shock numbers and their subsequent circle-jerk among those who oppose specific colleges or college football in general.

We (or someone of consequence) needs to get out the message that football is not a money loser or money hog...I would venture a guess that most football programs come out neutral or ahead. They generate revenue from tickets, guarantee games, specific donations, and marketing deals more than any other sport. The so called "losses" come in because FB is supporting all of the non-revenue sports as well. So if someone was really concerned about "athletic expenditures" they should cut loose basically everything but FB and to a lesser extent Men's Bball, and to a lesser extent women's Softball and bball--we can just have about 35 girls on scholly for bball and 65 on scholly for softball and boom! Title IX compliance is still in force!

I think it's silly for this report to look at % of budget subsidizes when most of those numbers are a drop in the bucket to the TOTAL DOLLARS subsidy to other schools....

a few million might be 65 to 80% of a school with a 15 million budget... but 20 million is only 40% of a 50 million dollar budget.

Number are a few years old Rutgers was still AAC/BE

1 Rutgers AAC $36,340,665
2 James Madison CAA $35,725,049
3 Air Force Mt. West $30,892,609
4 Connecticut AAC $27,203,031
5 Cincinnati AAC $27,118,373
6 Old Dominion C-USA $26,733,437
7 Massachusetts A-10 $26,425,129
8 California-Davis Big West $25,136,071
9 Eastern Michigan MAC $25,083,708
10 Delaware CAA $24,929,996
11 Buffalo MAC $23,979,061
12 Texas State Sun Belt $23,570,803
13 Stony Brook Am East $23,298,044
14 Central Florida AAC $22,843,166
15 Akron MAC $22,654,017
16 Florida International C-USA $22,540,365
17 Houston AAC $21,744,121
18 Central Michigan MAC $21,605,613
19 South Florida AAC $21,355,970
20 Miami (Ohio) MAC $21,115,125
21 Georgia State Sun Belt $20,692,717
22 Charlotte C-USA $20,459,306
23 New Mexico State WAC $20,353,201
24 Alabama at Birmingham C-USA $20,345,607
25 Rhode Island A-10 $20,044,922
26 Colorado State Mt. West $20,029,364
27 Western Michigan MAC $20,027,951
28 Towson CAA $19,821,921
29 North Texas C-USA $19,784,033
30 Nevada-Las Vegas Mt. West $19,783,274
31 Middle Tennessee State C-USA $19,674,538
32 Memphis AAC $19,337,485
33 Coastal Carolina Big South $19,158,081
34 Kent State MAC $19,039,679
35 Virginia Commonwealth A-10 $19,035,500
36 New Hampshire Am East $18,628,939
37 San Diego State Mt. West $18,503,715
38 Ohio MAC $18,453,771
39 Northern Illinois MAC $18,339,414
40 San Jose State Mt. West $18,276,682
41 Maryland ACC $18,121,113
42 Hawaii Big West $18,005,273
43 South Alabama Sun Belt $17,883,165
44 Troy Sun Belt $17,834,972
45 California Polytechnic Big West $17,589,223
46 Ball State MAC $17,397,330
47 New Mexico Mt. West $17,239,472
48 George Mason A-10 $17,207,354
49 Sacramento State Big Sky $16,968,568
50 Florida Atlantic C-USA $16,358,377
51 Wyoming Mt. West $16,097,463
52 Western Kentucky Sun Belt $15,758,435
53 East Carolina C-USA $15,680,447
54 Albany Am East $15,438,227
55 Illinois State Mo. Valley $15,112,785
56 Texas-El Paso C-USA $15,016,788
57 Kennesaw State Atl Sun $14,907,125
58 Texas-San Antonio C-USA $14,810,935
59 Bowling Green MAC $14,722,441
60 Utah State Mt. West $14,179,545
61 East Tennessee State Atl Sun $14,071,113
62 Marshall C-USA $14,056,395
63 California-Riverside Big West $13,788,851
64 Southern Illinois Mo. Valley $13,651,986
65 Georgia Southern Southern $13,550,186
66 Vermont Am East $13,392,986
67 California-Irvine Big West $13,369,049
68 Stephen F. Austin Southland $13,364,737
69 North Dakota Big Sky $13,357,249
70 Virginia ACC $13,235,814
71 College of Charleston CAA $13,153,721
72 Fresno State Mt. West $13,101,250
73 Central Connecticut Northeast $12,959,383
74 Toledo MAC $12,940,709
75 Maine Am East $12,829,475
76 William & Mary CAA $12,691,327
77 Army Patriot $12,645,286
78 Maryland-Baltimore Cty Am East $12,590,168
79 California-Santa Barbara Big West $12,447,088
80 Lamar Southland $12,427,089
81 Illinois-Chicago Horizon $12,410,075
82 Oregon State Pac-12 $12,285,453
83 Binghamton Am East $12,269,494
84 Colorado Pac-12 $12,209,473
85 Northern Arizona Big Sky $11,956,387
86 New Jersey Tech Ind. $11,899,220
87 North Carolina Greensboro Southern $11,860,371
88 Boise State Mt. West $11,799,384
89 Tennessee-Chattanooga Southern $11,667,988
90 California State-Northridge Big West $11,572,217
91 Delaware State MEAC $11,413,182
92 Radford Big South $11,237,598
93 Murray State Ohio Valley $11,236,842
94 Tennessee Tech Ohio Valley $11,179,898
95 Winthrop Big South $10,775,669
96 Alabama State SWAC $10,750,355
97 South Dakota Summit $10,697,633
98 Nevada Mt. West $10,685,143
99 Arkansas State Sun Belt $10,642,341
100 Sam Houston State Southland $10,629,147
101 Long Beach State Big West $10,627,432
102 Montana State Big Sky $10,561,845
103 Eastern Kentucky Ohio Valley $10,432,816
104 Massachusetts-Lowell Am East $10,292,273
105 Appalachian State Southern $10,283,987
106 Wisconsin-Milwaukee Horizon $10,160,905
107 Texas-Arlington Sun Belt $10,152,846
108 Northern Kentucky Atl Sun $10,113,986
109 Washington State Pac-12 $10,104,638
110 Youngstown State Horizon $10,085,921
111 Indiana State Mo. Valley $10,075,797
112 Arizona State Pac-12 $10,073,205
113 Portland State Big Sky $10,041,697
114 Florida Gulf Coast Atl Sun $9,891,551
115 Utah Pac-12 $9,862,106
116 Northern Colorado Big Sky $9,688,815
117 Louisiana Tech C-USA $9,651,372
118 Cleveland State Horizon $9,627,983
119 Norfolk State MEAC $9,613,812
120 Utah Valley WAC $9,601,418
121 Missouri-Kansas City WAC $9,592,076
122 California State-Fullerton Big West $9,525,235
123 Eastern Illinois Ohio Valley $9,524,251
124 Southern Mississippi C-USA $9,413,473
125 Idaho WAC $9,381,453
126 Morehead State Ohio Valley $9,341,671
127 Oakland Horizon $9,340,386
128 Citadel Southern $9,327,235
129 Nebraska-Omaha Summit $9,243,641
130 Eastern Washington Big Sky $9,153,007
131 Western Illinois Summit $9,118,895
132 North Carolina ACC $9,078,593
133 Missouri State Mo. Valley $8,965,530
134 Florida A&M MEAC $8,957,583
135 California State-Bakersfield WAC $8,917,551
136 Weber State Big Sky $8,883,487
137 Jacksonville State Ohio Valley $8,841,035
138 North Carolina Wilmington CAA $8,793,355
139 Central Arkansas Southland $8,760,294
140 Tennessee State Ohio Valley $8,646,618
141 Montana Big Sky $8,642,945
142 Texas A&M-Corpus Christi Southland $8,600,266
143 South Dakota State Summit $8,506,913
144 Northern Iowa Mo. Valley $8,464,481
145 Wright State Horizon $8,417,787
146 Longwood Big South $8,416,143
147 North Carolina A&T MEAC $8,398,737
148 Texas-Pan American WAC $8,341,076
149 Texas Southern SWAC $8,338,912
150 Prairie View A&M SWAC $8,272,437
151 Southeast Missouri State Ohio Valley $8,220,874
152 Virginia Tech ACC $8,110,828
153 Wisconsin Big Ten $8,073,360
154 North Dakota State Summit $7,994,050
155 Florida State ACC $7,980,366
156 Southern Utah Big Sky $7,961,064
157 Austin Peay Ohio Valley $7,954,748
158 North Florida Atl Sun $7,916,145
159 Arizona Pac-12 $7,901,134
160 Louisville AAC $7,768,599
161 Morgan State MEAC $7,753,009
162 North Carolina Central MEAC $7,718,865
163 Northwestern State La Southland $7,624,437
164 Western Carolina Southern $7,581,603
165 Oklahoma State Big 12 $7,521,475
166 Wichita State Mo. Valley $7,514,236
167 Idaho State Big Sky $7,476,288
168 Alabama A&M SWAC $7,342,671
169 Tennessee-Martin Ohio Valley $7,234,518
170 Indiana-Purdue Indianapolis Summit $7,184,587
171 Georgia Tech ACC $7,107,777
172 Minnesota Big Ten $7,011,066
173 Southern Illinois Edwardsville Ohio Valley $6,744,809
174 North Carolina State ACC $6,708,651
175 South Carolina State MEAC $6,635,852
176 Southeastern Louisiana Southland $6,520,730
177 Arkansas-Little Rock Sun Belt $6,195,669
178 Arkansas-Pine Bluff SWAC $6,037,876
179 Alabama SEC $5,997,100
180 South Carolina Upstate Atl Sun $5,834,118
181 Louisiana-Lafayette Sun Belt $5,649,393
182 South Carolina SEC $5,631,976
183 Indiana-Purdue Fort Wayne Summit $5,428,905
184 Alcorn State SWAC $5,329,700
185 McNeese State Southland $5,130,197
186 Southern SWAC $5,071,085
187 Wisconsin-Green Bay Horizon $4,997,939
188 California Pac-12 $4,982,173
189 Louisiana-Monroe Sun Belt $4,782,341
190 Nicholls State Southland $4,718,258
191 Maryland-Eastern Shore MEAC $4,708,513
192 North Carolina Asheville Big South $4,623,708
193 West Virginia Big 12 $4,441,522
194 Auburn SEC $4,384,800
195 Clemson ACC $4,375,745
196 Florida SEC $4,308,442
197 Texas Tech Big 12 $4,086,756
198 Savannah State MEAC $4,042,460
199 Jackson State SWAC $4,008,650
200 VMI Big South $3,982,729
201 Illinois Big Ten $3,927,372
202 Mississippi SEC $3,886,423
203 Washington Pac-12 $3,549,679
204 Georgia SEC $3,274,712
205 Indiana Big Ten $3,008,362
206 Grambling State SWAC $2,920,597
207 UCLA Pac-12 $2,711,272
208 Mississippi State SEC $2,650,000
209 Kansas Big 12 $2,564,374
210 Coppin State MEAC $2,467,870
211 Mississippi Valley State SWAC $2,172,228
212 Oregon Pac-12 $2,155,099
213 Iowa State Big 12 $1,957,396
214 Arkansas SEC $1,936,405
215 New Orleans Southland $1,725,273
216 Missouri SEC $1,515,000
217 Kansas State Big 12 $1,347,921
218 Tennessee SEC $1,250,000
219 Texas A&M SEC $1,241,457
220 Michigan State Big Ten $1,094,958
221 Kentucky SEC $861,548
222 Iowa Big Ten $683,917
223 Michigan Big Ten $256,316
224 Purdue Big Ten $0
225 Nebraska Big Ten $0
226 Penn State Big Ten $0
227 Oklahoma Big 12 $0
228 LSU SEC $0
229 Ohio State Big Ten $0
230 Texas Big 12 $0

(11-18-2015 02:54 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I think it's silly for this report to look at % of budget subsidizes when most of those numbers are a drop in the bucket to the TOTAL DOLLARS subsidy to other schools....

a few million might be 65 to 80% of a school with a 15 million budget... but 20 million is only 40% of a 50 million dollar budget.

Number are a few years old Rutgers was still AAC/BE

192 North Carolina Asheville Big South $4,623,708

Where are you getting these numbers from? UNCA has not much more than roughly 1200 students. This would indicate $4k per student!

(11-18-2015 02:03 PM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  We (or someone of consequence) needs to get out the message that football is not a money loser or money hog...I would venture a guess that most football programs come out neutral or ahead. They generate revenue from tickets, guarantee games, specific donations, and marketing deals more than any other sport. The so called "losses" come in because FB is supporting all of the non-revenue sports as well. So if someone was really concerned about "athletic expenditures" they should cut loose basically everything but FB and to a lesser extent Men's Bball, and to a lesser extent women's Softball and bball--we can just have about 35 girls on scholly for bball and 65 on scholly for softball and boom! Title IX compliance is still in force!

Pretty much. When they dropped football at UAB they kept citing the "20 million dollary subsid" as it seemed like they were trying to make it look like football was losing 20 million a year and even some news articles printed it that way. The reality is that at most football was only taking 10%/2 million of the subsidy in terrible seasons but out of the overall UAB athletic budget of 30 million it was one third (10 million) of the revenue/expenses/whatever you want to say. You also have to imagine that UAB football has been mismanaged for at least 10 years and had terrible coaching hires forced on it and yet it still only needed 1-2 million a year to keep going. The point is is that it and Men's Bball provide far more of their own budgets in comparison with all the non revenue sports, but it was certainly not framed that way at all in the attempt to kill it.

Here is a dose of reality.

First no president/chancellor with brains wants the athletic department to be self-sufficient. Money = power. If athletics is self-sufficient the university CEO has little real power. Georgia and Arkansas both have had AD vs CEO battles that either ended with the CEO weakened or out. The jerk who used to be president at Ohio State once joked about being lucky he wasn't fired by the athletic department.

If CEOs WANTED athletics to be self funded there are probably 100 of the 128 FBS that could do it with little struggle. Most could make athletics a school revenue source but that would increase the power of athletics.

Now we do face a potential issue with high subsidies.

Nationally enrollment is expected to drop over the next decade. Big name brand schools are in some cases increasing enrollment to offset dwindling state funds. The lesser the brand name the harder it will be to maintain enrollment and with that less is available to athletics.

If student loans are constrained as some hope to do, consumers or I should say students and parents will be more price sensitive. That's not good if fees are high.

The challenge is creating balance between those forces.

I'm surprised UGA is giving athletics 3.3 million...they have nearly $100 million in athletic revenue already. I'd be ticked if I were a current student.