(11-20-2015 09:41 PM)Owl75 Wrote:  Don't the FB players graduate at a higher rate than the general student body these days? How bad can they be?

When it comes to academic achievement and character, one should not even use "bad" and "Rice athletes" in the same sentence.

(11-20-2015 09:52 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 09:41 PM)Owl75 Wrote:  Don't the FB players graduate at a higher rate than the general student body these days? How bad can they be?

When it comes to academic achievement and character, one should not even use "bad" and "Rice athletes" in the same sentence.

+1

(11-20-2015 05:57 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 05:52 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I've said this before, and I'll say it again... I think some members of this forum overestimate the goodness and intelligence of some of our players. And I don't say that as an insult to our players. 90% of them are hardworking, smart guys , but almost none of them would have gotten into Rice without football. In the other 10%, there are some guys who are truly hardened and likely wouldn't meet your academic or moral criteria for a Rice student.

In general I agree. I do think a higher percentage of them could get into Rice on their own merits than the general student body would care to acknowledge. (think RUOwls, RiceDoc (we miss him), and many others, some recent).

What about the walk ons?

Yeah, walk-ons generally have better academic credentials coming out of high school than scholarship players.. With that said, most of our walk-ons are "preferred," meaning that the football program told the admissions off that essentially "we want this guy."

I agree with everything that has been said regarding Rice athletes. What I was saying is that I think we can dip lower than many people think...

(11-20-2015 05:57 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  I do think a higher percentage of them could get into Rice on their own merits than the general student body would care to acknowledge. (think RUOwls, RiceDoc (we miss him), and many others, some recent).

I'm not disagreeing with your principle, but you might not quite realize just how stratospherically competitive admissions are these days. No one "gets into Rice on their own merits". "Merits" (in the form of HS academic credentials) get an applicant into the pool of consideration -- and then it becomes almost random (or seemingly so) as to who is actually admitted. Many, many athletes are in the pool of consideration -- but so are many other smart kids. And for kids in that pool, the difference between those admitted and those not admitted is mostly NOT about academic credentials. Heck, you could take the students who are not admitted and form an entire class with an essentially identical academic profile to the ones who are admitted.

I entered Rice almost five decades ago expecting the football players to be admitted under a lower standard and not as smart as the rest of the student body. Just the way I figured athletics at any school would be.

A few individuals seemed to bear out this expectation. But then as I got to know the people, it became apparent that many, in fact, most of them were just like the rest of us - smart as hell. Then I sampled some of the "jock" courses - not that easy. I left Rice with an abiding respect for our the academic prowess of our athletes, and nothing since has changed my mind.

I think George hit the nail on the head.

I am reminded of a joke I heard long ago. Three players at an all star game were talking. The Rice guy said he would be glad to get back to school after the game because he needed to study up for a calculus quiz. The TCU guy agreed, saying he had an algebra test to prepare for. Then the UH guy piped up, saying, "You guys think those are tough? You ever hear of this here long division?"

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college...idates.ece

Last year's (2015) postseason thread on football and coach.

The below is from the "retained" thread, and why I looked for what they/he/we said after last season:

(11-29-2016 12:15 PM)Pimpa Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 12:11 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  They said the exact same things after last season and things only got worse. There is absolutely no reason to believe that next season will be any better, and in fact without an FCS cupcake on the schedule it can only get worse.

My thoughts exactly, Frizzy. While I don't believe a written statement was released last year, if you go to JK's December 2015 podcast, he said much of the exact same things. I don't know what else DB could change - a zebra can't change its stripes.

Plus, note the last line in DB's statement. "I am asking that all Owls fans continue to support our program and to believe that we will get back to our winning ways in 2017." It's obvious that the AD has received feedback from people pledging to withdraw support and/or reading the Parliament. They knew there was a segment (how large of one remains to be seen) of fans clamoring for a change. But they went ahead and kept him anyway.

For comparison purposes, how many of you changed your position on supporting or being on the fence on Bailiff after this just-completed (2016) season?

(11-29-2016 12:42 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Last year's (2015) postseason thread on football and coach.

For comparison purposes, how many of you changed your position on supporting or being on the fence on Bailiff after this just-completed (2016) season?

Last year I was able to rationalize and explain it away a bit.

This year I am disgusted and perplexed. I don't understand how we spend the money to build the EZF but won't make a coaching change. It doesn't make any sense.

(11-20-2015 05:26 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  I don't believe for 2 seconds that our standards are at all higher than Duke's, much less way higher. They had better not be.

They are, at least for athletes.

(11-29-2016 12:58 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 12:42 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Last year's (2015) postseason thread on football and coach.

For comparison purposes, how many of you changed your position on supporting or being on the fence on Bailiff after this just-completed (2016) season?

Last year I was able to rationalize and explain it away a bit.

This year I am disgusted and perplexed. I don't understand how we spend the money to build the EZF but won't make a coaching change. It doesn't make any sense.

Same.

I felt that it was time to go, but understood the rationale behind keeping him.