Does everyone think points you give up per game might be the best indicator of how good a defense really is? I was looking at ESPNs stats on team total defense and noticed, just for example, that South Alabama comes up 29th based on yards given up per game and if you were a Jaguar fan you would be likely saying "hey our D is pretty solid we are 29th in the nation".
If you look closer you notice, they give up nearly 38 points a game. Then look at WKU for example they are 109th in yards per game yet only give up 27 points per game.
I know there are a bunch of factors involved, what kind of offenses have you faced, turnovers, points scored by the D, etc. My point is just by looking at a ranking you don't always get the true picture. If you use points per game WKU is 70th & USA 116th. Which means the Toppers D is somewhat below the national average which makes more sense to me at least. The most important factor might be the overall quality of your schedule.
On the other hand does the same hold true on offense side of the ball?

The old cliche is "defense wins championships", and I would say that holds true 90% of the time. Occasionally, an offense comes along that just can't be stopped, but it's rare.

Who you've played and stopped does make a difference. USM gave up 442 yards to MSU, 591 to Texas State, and 610 to Nebraska. All 3 teams had very good mobile QBs that burned us for big yardage. Since then, the defense has shutdown most everyone we've played. USM's total defense is #47 and scoring defense is #42. Driphus Jackson and Jeff Driskel are coming up. We're going to find out if our defense has improved or if it was the quality of opponents.

I think you have to look at the whole picture. When I look at USA and WKU, I first look at Run Defense. If you can't stop the run, your defense is not going to be very good because it's easy to hand the ball off and run the football. USA sucks against the run (or they have played some VERY strong running teams). They give up 224 yards a game rushing vs WKU's 174 (advantage WKU). They don't give up many passing yards (175 a game), probably because teams don't have to pass on them to move the ball.

But another factor is how many first downs are you giving up, which indicates how well a team can drive the ball on you. South Alabama is ranked #25 in the nation, giving up just 142 first downs to WKU's 197, which ranks #111 in the nation.

Scoring is not a good stat because like you said, there are a number of factors, the most important is probably special teams and turnovers / field position. If your offense or your punter or kickoff return team sucks, your defense can give up more points than they probably should... and it's not really their fault.

Then you look at turnovers gained which indicates how athletic and disruptive the defense is. WKU is #7 in the nation in turnovers gained with 20. USA only has 10.

So I would say WKU is a bend-but-don't break defense that forces teams to drive the field and tries to create a bunch of turnovers along the way. USA is a defense that gives up huge run plays and nobody really HAS to pass on them. I would rather my offense play against USA.

Whick WKU fan was talking about how we should "just keep thinking wku defense is bad" lol, well, FAU just confirmed everyones observations. WKUs defense is slightly improved but is a sieve, albeit, a slightly smaller sieve.

And scoring defense is the ultimate measure. Defenses job is to prevent points, yards are meaningless if you cant put it in the endzone. Ill give up 700 yards and 3 pts ever week.

(11-07-2015 12:28 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  Whick WKU fan was talking about how we should "just keep thinking wku defense is bad" lol, well, FAU just confirmed everyones observations. WKUs defense is slightly improved but is a sieve, albeit, a slightly smaller sieve.

And scoring defense is the ultimate measure. Defenses job is to prevent points, yards are meaningless if you cant put it in the endzone. I'll give up 700 yards and 3 pts ever week.

If you give up 700 yards a week, you are usually going to give up about 50 or more points a week though. No way you can consistently get that many turnovers in the red zone.

There's Points Allowed Per Game, then there's everything else that really doesn't matter.

(11-07-2015 11:54 AM)USM@FTL Wrote:  The old cliche is "defense wins championships", and I would say that holds true 90% of the time. Occasionally, an offense comes along that just can't be stopped, but it's rare.

Who you've played and stopped does make a difference. USM gave up 442 yards to MSU, 591 to Texas State, and 610 to Nebraska. All 3 teams had very good mobile QBs that burned us for big yardage. Since then, the defense has shutdown most everyone we've played. USM's total defense is #47 and scoring defense is #42. Driphus Jackson and Jeff Driskel are coming up. We're going to find out if our defense has improved or if it was the quality of opponents.

No doubt. Mobile QBs scare the piss out of me. We still aren't talented enough at linebacker.

(11-07-2015 01:01 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  

(11-07-2015 12:28 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  Whick WKU fan was talking about how we should "just keep thinking wku defense is bad" lol, well, FAU just confirmed everyones observations. WKUs defense is slightly improved but is a sieve, albeit, a slightly smaller sieve.

And scoring defense is the ultimate measure. Defenses job is to prevent points, yards are meaningless if you cant put it in the endzone. I'll give up 700 yards and 3 pts ever week.

If you give up 700 yards a week, you are usually going to give up about 50 or more points a week though. No way you can consistently get that many turnovers in the red zone.

What he's saying is he'll give up 700 yards every week if it means only 3 points as a trade off. So would any team. Yardage doesn't matter if there is no score. And the "bend don't break" style of defense is designed to do just that. The closer teams get to the endzone on us the more difficult it becomes for them to score a TD. We do get burnt by the big play here and there, which is the weakness of that defensive style.

Stats other than PPG Allowed can be a bit misleading because so many other factors come into play.

Look at a offense like ours. We are almost assuredly going to get our yards in any game against pretty much anyone. That doesn't necessarily imply that our offense plays well in every game or that the opposing defense didn't play well......example.....when we played Marshall we had 400 something yards yet our offense did not play very well. Marshall's defense gave up 400+ yards, but having watched that game, I can unequivocally say that they played very well. We had a ****-ton of yards against Nebraska yet didn't even score until the second half.

Especially in CUSA....defenses are going to give up yardage. That's just how it is. Hell, in the 2011 CUSA Championship our defense probably gave up 400 yards to Houston yet they played really well and beat the living **** out of Case Keenum in a game that ended 49-28 for the good guys but wasn't nearly that close.

Bend and don't break = winning in CUSA

(11-07-2015 12:28 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  Whick WKU fan was talking about how we should "just keep thinking wku defense is bad" lol, well, FAU just confirmed everyones observations. WKUs defense is slightly improved but is a sieve, albeit, a slightly smaller sieve.

And scoring defense is the ultimate measure. Defenses job is to prevent points, yards are meaningless if you cant put it in the endzone. Ill give up 700 yards and 3 pts ever week.

WKU entered today with the #99 ranked D giving up and average of 434 ypg. Today, we won against a scrappy team and held them to 359 total yards. FAU has averaged 389 ypg this season, so we held them below their average! No, it wasn't pretty, but not nearly as bad as you want to think!

(11-07-2015 09:08 AM)Franko Wrote:  Does everyone think points you give up per game might be the best indicator of how good a defense really is? I was looking at ESPNs stats on team total defense and noticed, just for example, that South Alabama comes up 29th based on yards given up per game and if you were a Jaguar fan you would be likely saying "hey our D is pretty solid we are 29th in the nation".
If you look closer you notice, they give up nearly 38 points a game. Then look at WKU for example they are 109th in yards per game yet only give up 27 points per game.
I know there are a bunch of factors involved, what kind of offenses have you faced, turnovers, points scored by the D, etc. My point is just by looking at a ranking you don't always get the true picture. If you use points per game WKU is 70th & USA 116th. Which means the Toppers D is somewhat below the national average which makes more sense to me at least. The most important factor might be the overall quality of your schedule.
On the other hand does the same hold true on offense side of the ball?

A team with a good offense may force an opponent to have to go farther to score. So, REALLY, your offense may be aiding your defense.

In addition - yes, WKU is a bend-but-not-break defense. FAU marched on them all day but how many times did our drives stop in the red zone?

(11-07-2015 11:51 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  In addition - yes, WKU is a bend-but-not-break defense. FAU marched on them all day but how many times did our drives stop in the red zone?

Its what we have done all season

That 29th ranked defense gave up 494 yards to Idaho of all teams.

People put too much emphasis on national statistics.

The fact of the matter is that there are nearly a 130 schools who all play different schedules. And college football is not like the NFL where everyone essentially runs the same cookie cutter schemes. In college, the variance in offenses faced are wide. Therefore, we have no apples to apples comparisons when it comes to statistics.

About the closest we can come is conference only stats, but even that with leagues as big as they are now not everyone is playing the same conference schedule either.

Lastly, as someone mentioned above inept offense can have negative consequence on your defensive statics. If you have an offense that is consistently putting you in poor field position (or even a kicking game doing the same) then stats aren't telling the whole story.

IMO, Delta gives you somewhat more of a complete picture of your team. When you subtract your points allowed from points scored that can give you an indicator. But again is not the be all end all. Bottom line is its very difficult to draw any conclusions whatsoever from statistics alone - even scoring and if you are trying to base an argument on stats in college football to support your case it's almost always going to fail.

(11-08-2015 11:56 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  People put too much emphasis on national statistics.

The fact of the matter is that there are nearly a 130 schools who all play different schedules. And college football is not like the NFL where everyone essentially runs the same cookie cutter schemes. In college, the variance in offenses faced are wide. Therefore, we have no apples to apples comparisons when it comes to statistics.

About the closest we can come is conference only stats, but even that with leagues as big as they are now not everyone is playing the same conference schedule either.

Lastly, as someone mentioned above inept offense can have negative consequence on your defensive statics. If you have an offense that is consistently putting you in poor field position (or even a kicking game doing the same) then stats aren't telling the whole story.

IMO, Delta gives you somewhat more of a complete picture of your team. When you subtract your points allowed from points scored that can give you an indicator. But again is not the be all end all. Bottom line is its very difficult to draw any conclusions whatsoever from statistics alone - even scoring and if you are trying to base an argument on stats in college football to support your case it's almost always going to fail.

that's what the last guy picked on the playground does....

the rest of us watch the game evolve as the men on the field provide the entertainment....

stats are for fantasy wizard stuff people heisman voters......

unfortunately, i was one of 'them' in my 20s when the field wasn't around anymore....

giving up statistical studies was like gaining another inch below the waist.....

I don't miss any of that bs now....