(11-05-2015 01:04 PM)cincyrocket Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 08:32 AM)T-Town Wrote:  Unless some schools have bought into the media hype about Campbell, it is unlikely he is going anywhere just yet because as last night graphically demonstrated he is still a "work in progress" and the BIG boys want to see a finished product before they
lay out a multi-million dollar/year contract.

Campbell is improving his skills every year and is working toward becoming that "finished product" that every BIG boy school desires, however, he is not quite there yet. This year Campbell came up with a credible defense the help him win his 1st and 2nd victories over BIG boy schools on consecutive weekends that led to a temporary national ranking and sooner or later he will learn how to beat NIU and thus win a MACC. At that point we can expect him to move on, but probably not before.

Totally agree. Spot on.

(11-04-2015 10:37 AM)toledobrad Wrote:  That throw to Russell wasn't forced. Defender was 3 yards behind him and the ball hit him right between the numbers. He makes that catch and nobody is bitching and moaning this morning. Campbell didn't drop that ball, Russell did.

To me, this loss is on the players. There comes a point and time where the players need to be held accountable for their lack of productivity. You can coach/teach them till you're blue in the face, but if they don't take it to the field with them, it's their fault.

These aren't new plays that they're running. It the same set of plays for how many years now? The WR should know where to line up and what route to run. If they run a play a million times in practice, then on game day Corey Jones runs it wrong and the ball is picked, that's Jones' fault. Not Ely's. Not the coaches.

3rd and forever? You've been taught since you first put on pads. Nobody gets behind you. When you stand there and watch a guy run by you? That's on the DB's.

I'm not saying don't put any blame on the Coaches', but to me, this one is on the players.

This. This. This. THIS.

The dropped passes. The slow starts. The bend but don't break D. In one sense, these areas can all be seen as "look how much more we can improve". However, when you lose the way UT lost to NIU, they are now likely items what will doom this season.

Can the coaching be better? Sure, but their job is to put players in position to win games. That was there on Tuesday night and the players did not get it done.

I hope the team/staff can get it figured out fast, because CMU, BG, and WMU now have a clear blueprint on how to beat UT.

Yep, I can see BG giving us an early lead, then having Johnson get hurt so their backup can lead them to victory.

You give a QB that much time and someone is going to get free. That wasn't on the DB. The DB can try to stay behind all he wants but only the WR knows which direction he's headed, particularly after the play busts. If the DB had zoned and left the WR to run even towards the LOS unguarded then the DB would have caught holy heck from the coaches. ANY WR sooner or later is going to get distance. They are in control

It wasn't a zone, which probably should have been called, in which the DB could have held position.. There were no LBs apparently assigned to zone, look for holes in the LOS, hit it and move the QB. The QB had all the time in the world, the burden put on the secondary. With that much time, the offense has clear advantage. A delayed blitz in that situation would have permitted the DBs to pay back. There was no blitz even though it was 3rd and Toledo. THAT's on the coaches. No player, pee-wee to NFL s going to make the plays every play, every game. It's for the coaches to account for that with superior tactics superior organization, superior scouting.

ANY coach that after game cannot stand in front and admit they could have done things better, is suspect. ANY coach that puts blame on the players when they are the teachers of the players and the selectors of who plays and who doesn't, is suspect. ANY coach that lets the fan base do it unaccounted, is not ready.

I like our coach and hope to keep him and hope the fan base supports him when someone does what I consider childish, and creates a thread titled such as this one but he's where the buck stops and he's the one accountable. Not a scholarship player that presumably is playing because the coach has decided that player is the best available and works in a way to be the one in the game. Both players and coaches are going to make mistakes, make plays that don't work well but ultimately, is the Coaches who are "responsible."

I still like what Campbell is doing with the program. May lose a game here and there, but the program is getting stronger. Just as a reminder, Pinkel went undefeated-1 tie and a MAC title in '95 in 10 seasons at UT. Undefeated seasons and MACC's aren't that easy to come by.

(11-06-2015 03:42 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I still like what Campbell is doing with the program. May lose a game here and there, but the program is getting stronger. Just as a reminder, Pinkel went undefeated-1 tie and a MAC title in '95 in 10 seasons at UT. Undefeated seasons and MACC's aren't that easy to come by.

Well it could be that BG ends up with 2 since our last one. I will argue with anyone they have done a better job of finding solid coaches and all conference type quarterbacks. Our recruiting for that crucial position has not been stellar. UT should be able to easily out-recruit BG - and they probably have. We just haven't done a good job of developing those players further. Granted, we have beaten BG something like 5 straight years, so head to head we have done fine. But, we have no MACC's And the way BG handled NIU 2 years ago showed they arrive for the big game - we still do not.

Man - that was painful to write, but it is what I believe...for now.

(11-06-2015 06:15 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(11-06-2015 03:42 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I still like what Campbell is doing with the program. May lose a game here and there, but the program is getting stronger. Just as a reminder, Pinkel went undefeated-1 tie and a MAC title in '95 in 10 seasons at UT. Undefeated seasons and MACC's aren't that easy to come by.

Well it could be that BG ends up with 2 since our last one. I will argue with anyone they have done a better job of finding solid coaches and all conference type quarterbacks. Our recruiting for that crucial position has not been stellar. UT should be able to easily out-recruit BG - and they probably have. We just haven't done a good job of developing those players further. Granted, we have beaten BG something like 5 straight years, so head to head we have done fine. But, we have no MACC's And the way BG handled NIU 2 years ago showed they arrive for the big game - we still do not.

Man - that was painful to write, but it is what I believe...for now.

BG lost to 4 of the 5 MAC West teams last season, won a Division title and went to the MACC game. BG plays in one of the weakest FBS Divisions.
In 2013, BG had a good game, NIU looked flat. As far as BG showing up big the rest of the years, look at their recent Bowl record:
2007 GMAC Bowl +5 BG 7 Tulsa 63
2009 Humanitarian Bowl Even BG 42 Idaho 43
2012 Military Bowl +7 BG 20 San Jose 29
2013 Little Caesar -6 BG 27 Pittsburgh 30
2014 Camelia Bowl +2 BG 33 South Alabama 28

Steele's goes back 5 years for listing W/L records. Including this season and the past 5:
BGSU 40-34 .541 UT 49-23 .681

Sooo...

So...if the Rockets beat Western, and win a bowl game (which hopefully would be the Poinsettia Bowl against a P5 opponent, or at the very least a matchup against an AAC team in a different bowl), I would be shocked if Campbell doesn't get offered an AAC job when one opens up (which is likely to happen), let alone be in the discussion. And if so, I still stand by my opinion that it may be in his best interest to move on (and up). We'll have some significant holes to fill on the D-line and with linebackers next season. An 11-win season "in the hand" would be better for him than hoping for a repeat next season.

Do I WANT him to go? That's really your question, I think. When he was hired, I was concerned that we would pay some price for his relative inexperience actually running a program, and while I'm sure he has gotten better as he gains more experience, we do still show some struggles that at times seem inexplicable. IF money is an issue for him, then he's going to be gone sooner than later anyway. So far, he's brought 2nd and 3rd place finishes in the Division. I do wonder if he is willing to make some changes that could improve the program. I do wonder why we played worse at home against Northern with our starting QB than we did at Northern last season without, really, a QB at all. And, IF we lose to Western and fall back to 3rd in the Division, that would be IMO a step backwards. If he chooses to move on to a "better" job, I can't fault him and would like to believe that there are some people out there who would love the chance to coach at Toledo. Maybe they would do worse. Maybe they would get us over the hurdle. Who knows.

On the other hand, if we win out, including a nice bowl win, we should finish in the top 25 in the final poll, which even I would consider a pretty nice consolation prize for not winning the MAC; and, should Campbell decide to stay here at UT, that would certainly be a nice building block going into next season.

And, it's getting harder for me to not like him when he beats BG over and over!

(11-19-2015 08:34 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  So...if the Rockets beat Western, and win a bowl game (which hopefully would be the Poinsettia Bowl against a P5 opponent, or at the very least a matchup against an AAC team in a different bowl), I would be shocked if Campbell doesn't get offered an AAC job when one opens up (which is likely to happen), let alone be in the discussion. And if so, I still stand by my opinion that it may be in his best interest to move on (and up). We'll have some significant holes to fill on the D-line and with linebackers next season. An 11-win season "in the hand" would be better for him than hoping for a repeat next season.

Do I WANT him to go? That's really your question, I think. When he was hired, I was concerned that we would pay some price for his relative inexperience actually running a program, and while I'm sure he has gotten better as he gains more experience, we do still show some struggles that at times seem inexplicable. IF money is an issue for him, then he's going to be gone sooner than later anyway. So far, he's brought 2nd and 3rd place finishes in the Division. I do wonder if he is willing to make some changes that could improve the program. I do wonder why we played worse at home against Northern with our starting QB than we did at Northern last season without, really, a QB at all. And, IF we lose to Western and fall back to 3rd in the Division, that would be IMO a step backwards. If he chooses to move on to a "better" job, I can't fault him and would like to believe that there are some people out there who would love the chance to coach at Toledo. Maybe they would do worse. Maybe they would get us over the hurdle. Who knows.

On the other hand, if we win out, including a nice bowl win, we should finish in the top 25 in the final poll, which even I would consider a pretty nice consolation prize for not winning the MAC; and, should Campbell decide to stay here at UT, that would certainly be a nice building block going into next season.

And, it's getting harder for me to not like him when he beats BG over and over!

I don't think he'd even talk to an AAC school. They are barely a step up over the MAC. If Campbell goes, it will be for a Mid to High Level job in a Power 5 conference.

Did Coach Campbell do some "learning on the job"? For sure, but there is clear improvement in his coaching every year. Might as well reap the benefits of loyalty and patience.

I get the complaints against Campbell because he hasn't won the MAC, let alone gotten UT to a higher level bowl game. However, I'm not eager to see him go. Let's not forget where this program was at the end of the Amstutz years. I'll take the last 5 years over 3-9 seasons any day.

Do I want UT Football to achieve higher things? Absolutely, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot (ala Nebraska) just to make a change.

Beckman helped bring the Toledo program back from the brink.

Campbell has brought Toledo into the national spotlight, which in this era of college football, is massive. Toledo is relevant. I wouldn't trade that for the world now. Yes, I want a championship, but friends texting me seeing Toledo's name everywhere is great, and Im enjoying it. It does nothing but positive things for the university, the alumni, and the city of Toledo itself.

(11-19-2015 10:29 AM)cincyrocket Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 08:34 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  So...if the Rockets beat Western, and win a bowl game (which hopefully would be the Poinsettia Bowl against a P5 opponent, or at the very least a matchup against an AAC team in a different bowl), I would be shocked if Campbell doesn't get offered an AAC job when one opens up (which is likely to happen), let alone be in the discussion. And if so, I still stand by my opinion that it may be in his best interest to move on (and up). We'll have some significant holes to fill on the D-line and with linebackers next season. An 11-win season "in the hand" would be better for him than hoping for a repeat next season.

Do I WANT him to go? That's really your question, I think. When he was hired, I was concerned that we would pay some price for his relative inexperience actually running a program, and while I'm sure he has gotten better as he gains more experience, we do still show some struggles that at times seem inexplicable. IF money is an issue for him, then he's going to be gone sooner than later anyway. So far, he's brought 2nd and 3rd place finishes in the Division. I do wonder if he is willing to make some changes that could improve the program. I do wonder why we played worse at home against Northern with our starting QB than we did at Northern last season without, really, a QB at all. And, IF we lose to Western and fall back to 3rd in the Division, that would be IMO a step backwards. If he chooses to move on to a "better" job, I can't fault him and would like to believe that there are some people out there who would love the chance to coach at Toledo. Maybe they would do worse. Maybe they would get us over the hurdle. Who knows.

On the other hand, if we win out, including a nice bowl win, we should finish in the top 25 in the final poll, which even I would consider a pretty nice consolation prize for not winning the MAC; and, should Campbell decide to stay here at UT, that would certainly be a nice building block going into next season.

And, it's getting harder for me to not like him when he beats BG over and over!

I don't think he'd even talk to an AAC school. They are barely a step up over the MAC. If Campbell goes, it will be for a Mid to High Level job in a Power 5 conference.

Did Coach Campbell do some "learning on the job"? For sure, but there is clear improvement in his coaching every year. Might as well reap the benefits of loyalty and patience.

I get the complaints against Campbell because he hasn't won the MAC, let alone gotten UT to a higher level bowl game. However, I'm not eager to see him go. Let's not forget where this program was at the end of the Amstutz years. I'll take the last 5 years over 3-9 seasons any day.

Do I want UT Football to achieve higher things? Absolutely, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot (ala Nebraska) just to make a change.

Point taken.

(11-19-2015 10:31 AM)rocketinchitown Wrote:  Beckman helped bring the Toledo program back from the brink.

Campbell has brought Toledo into the national spotlight, which in this era of college football, is massive. Toledo is relevant. I wouldn't trade that for the world now. Yes, I want a championship, but friends texting me seeing Toledo's name everywhere is great, and Im enjoying it. It does nothing but positive things for the university, the alumni, and the city of Toledo itself.

And your point is taken, as well!

I sure as Hell don't want him to leave.

(11-06-2015 03:42 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I still like what Campbell is doing with the program. May lose a game here and there, but the program is getting stronger. Just as a reminder, Pinkel went undefeated-1 tie and a MAC title in '95 in 10 seasons at UT. Undefeated seasons and MACC's aren't that easy to come by.

I think this season is different because the loss came late in the season.
Whether undefeated seasons are hard to come by or not isn't even up for debate, they are obviously hard to come by.
But the reason for that in the MAC is in large part because the MAC team gets its first loss early against its tougher SEC and Big Ten opponent and the "dream" season is never really a possibility by the 1st, 2nd and 3rd game of the year.

(11-05-2015 11:53 AM)utrocks84 Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 12:22 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  And let me be clear. When I started this thread I didn't suggest that Campbell should be fired. I said if he gets an offer elsewhere, IMO it may be mutually beneficial for him to go onward. I think most expect that to happen sometime, no? He may have tapped out what he can do here with the resources available, or he may be unwilling to make some personnel changes (staff or players) that may need to occur for the Rocket program to move beyond perennial runner-up. The product on the field lately--slow first quarters against both Kent and EMU, a terrible half at UMass, and now 3 uninspired quarters of play last night--with continuing explanations that we just didn't play with discipline or focus, leads to questions about where this program can go.

This team has dodged bullets all year, other than EMU when they still started slow UT hasn't dominated. The receivers, especially Russell have dropped too many passes, Ely isn't the best QB in the division let alone the conference. But, given all this we still have 1 loss and have the chance to be in the MACC game. Campbell and Candle are young and learning, I hope they stay at least 10 more years. We still have some break downs on defense, but we're a lot better than last year. The talent level is at an all time high. NIU has been a strong program for years and has learned how to win and close out games. Even when there's injuries, bad calls and dropped balls/missed assignments. That's the next step at UT.

I think we just needed to have an efficient QB this season, which we do. Don't need the "best QB in the division"
Unfortunately he had some difficult stretches where his accuracy was way off. Usually only for a quarter at a time. But that was enough. And against NIU it was 2 awful quarters.
The receivers were very disappointing much of the season.

Memphis AND Houston reportedly signing their coaches to $3 mill/yr contracts to keep them from leaving

Must be nice to have money.

(11-21-2015 04:47 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Must be nice to have money.

Still think it's a shame colleges pi$$ money away like that. The cost to go to college now is just insane.

(11-21-2015 07:44 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 04:47 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Must be nice to have money.

Still think it's a shame colleges pi$$ money away like that. The cost to go to college now is just insane.

Boggles my mind true but we are a consumer society. Imagine what another 2 million could do for the academics at those schools but the coaches would leave and they might lose that revenue. Hard to know the bottom line but the appearance grates.

I hope he stays around long enough to get a statue built of himself outside of the Larimer and to see "Matt Campbell Field at the Glass Bowl." I know that it is extremely unlikely but I'd love to see him turn Toledo into a powerhouse program. OTOH, I expect him to only have a couple more games to coach at Toledo unfortunately.

I do hope that he starts holding his assistant coaches and players accountable to the extent that he does himself though (last game excepted).

I feel strongly that the Rockets would have beat NIU if he held his receivers accountable (put them on the bench after a dropped pass) throughout the season and similarly with the OC on poorly planned/executed offensive games. To be fair, the playcalling in the BG game was great in my unprofessional opinion.