(11-02-2015 01:26 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:22 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:47 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, if true, which I seriously doubt, then it is more of a condemnation of our parent's generation than anything else.

The Boomers are the single most destructive and selfish generation imaginable.

You are 100% correct. Which is why they find it more convenient to blame teachers and the system than themselves.

You can blame the system on Boomers, but they aren't responsible for the apathy that permeates the kids and their parents have towards education for the past 20 years.

I'd put that squarely on them. The kids don't develop free of their parent's influence.

You can't blame the kids, but you can blame the parents that either didn't parent or chose to teach their kids the mindset of poverty.

No they don't, but I think by high school you can blame the kids. Even if you hate school, there's no excuse for stopping someone else from learning.

(11-02-2015 02:16 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:26 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:22 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:47 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, if true, which I seriously doubt, then it is more of a condemnation of our parent's generation than anything else.

The Boomers are the single most destructive and selfish generation imaginable.

You are 100% correct. Which is why they find it more convenient to blame teachers and the system than themselves.

You can blame the system on Boomers, but they aren't responsible for the apathy that permeates the kids and their parents have towards education for the past 20 years.

I'd put that squarely on them. The kids don't develop free of their parent's influence.

You can't blame the kids, but you can blame the parents that either didn't parent or chose to teach their kids the mindset of poverty.

No they don't, but I think by high school you can blame the kids. Even if you hate school, there's no excuse for stopping someone else from learning.

I agree with that and I do think it is ******.

I just go back to the parents. Kid's parrot behaviour.

And, as we all know, the apple rarely falls far from the tree.

(11-02-2015 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:51 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:45 PM)Hitch Wrote:  7 years ago they were Juniors and Seniors in high school.

I'm not defending common core, I'm just saying the timing of common core completely misses the formative learning period for millennials.

I wish I could see a more detailed breakdown

Anyone that thinks the Common Core has anything whatsoever to do with this just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Common Core is a problem in general.

Yes. It hasn't been implemented enough places.

3 x 5 = 15 unless you are learning common core. The whole "carrying the one" thing with addition isn't taught anymore now either. Common core makes easy stuff too complicated.

Gentlemen - again - look at how our politicians have deemed to measure the success or failure of a given school.

The success or failure is tied to how many pass the standardized test, not how far can we take our more intelligent kids. The metrics are all based on how to get the dumbest to pass the test. If they can drag enough dummies to pass the minimums - success has been achieved.

People (including educators) figure out what their bosses want, then work to that end. Our educational system today, all but ignores the brighter kids (they will pass the test anyway) while focusing the vast majority of time and money resources on those at the bottom of the academic scale.

Schools are attempting to deliver what the politicians have deemed as most important given the metrics.

It is a foolish way to measure a school - but it is what is being measured.

(11-02-2015 03:44 PM)Crebman Wrote:  Gentlemen - again - look at how our politicians have deemed to measure the success or failure of a given school.

The success or failure is tied to how many pass the standardized test, not how far can we take our more intelligent kids. The metrics are all based on how to get the dumbest to pass the test. If they can drag enough dummies to pass the minimums - success has been achieved.

People (including educators) figure out what their bosses want, then work to that end. Our educational system today, all but ignores the brighter kids (they will pass the test anyway) while focusing the vast majority of time and money resources on those at the bottom of the academic scale.

Schools are attempting to deliver what the politicians have deemed as most important given the metrics.

It is a foolish way to measure a school - but it is what is being measured.

(11-02-2015 03:44 PM)Crebman Wrote:  Gentlemen - again - look at how our politicians have deemed to measure the success or failure of a given school.

The success or failure is tied to how many pass the standardized test, not how far can we take our more intelligent kids. The metrics are all based on how to get the dumbest to pass the test. If they can drag enough dummies to pass the minimums - success has been achieved.

People (including educators) figure out what their bosses want, then work to that end. Our educational system today, all but ignores the brighter kids (they will pass the test anyway) while focusing the vast majority of time and money resources on those at the bottom of the academic scale.

Schools are attempting to deliver what the politicians have deemed as most important given the metrics.

It is a foolish way to measure a school - but it is what is being measured.

My issue is that I don't think the students are that dumb. They just couldn't care less about education. That apathy builds up like compound interest to the point where its impossible for the school system to resolve the issue. If a student graduates high school without being able to read, I can't pin that failure on the teachers.

(11-02-2015 04:36 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:44 PM)Crebman Wrote:  Gentlemen - again - look at how our politicians have deemed to measure the success or failure of a given school.

The success or failure is tied to how many pass the standardized test, not how far can we take our more intelligent kids. The metrics are all based on how to get the dumbest to pass the test. If they can drag enough dummies to pass the minimums - success has been achieved.

People (including educators) figure out what their bosses want, then work to that end. Our educational system today, all but ignores the brighter kids (they will pass the test anyway) while focusing the vast majority of time and money resources on those at the bottom of the academic scale.

Schools are attempting to deliver what the politicians have deemed as most important given the metrics.

It is a foolish way to measure a school - but it is what is being measured.

My issue is that I don't think the students are that dumb. They just couldn't care less about education. That apathy builds up like compound interest to the point where its impossible for the school system to resolve the issue. If a student graduates high school without being able to read, I can't pin that failure on the teachers.

Why would that student graduate in the first place?

Like most complex issues, the cause and solution are likely more complex than something that can fit on a bumper sticker.

(11-02-2015 10:18 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 10:15 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 10:05 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 09:40 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  Of course once the leftists get wind of this they'll want to simply throw more money into a failed system instead of looking to see if maybe we need to try something different. Perhaps what we need to do is stop trying to do social engineering with our educational system, get teachers who are looking to educate kids instead of trying to get their freak on and actually try to do some educating for a change.

Your last statement is probably a large part of the problem. Americans no longer respect teachers and blame them for the shortcoming of their children.

Teaching it today's America is much like being hog tied and thrown into a classroom.

We lack the resources, the support, and the freedom to teach students the way they need to learn today.

Then instead of remaining silent and nodding in approval for every tax increase and ESPLOST that comes along, why don't teachers break ranks and become more vocal regarding the issues. You'd find that you actually do have plenty of supporters and sympathizers. But it would also mean that you'd be throwing your lot in with the proverbial ****-lords and troglodytes.

Because our education system isn't dictated by teachers. It's dictated by politicians.

what he's saying is if you had balls son, you would step up to the plate....

but you are saying that won't work....

then don't pay taxes if you have cajones.....

neither will happen.....by anyone....

dr bendover is having his day in court fella.....and you know it too....from both sides....

(11-02-2015 04:36 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:44 PM)Crebman Wrote:  Gentlemen - again - look at how our politicians have deemed to measure the success or failure of a given school.

The success or failure is tied to how many pass the standardized test, not how far can we take our more intelligent kids. The metrics are all based on how to get the dumbest to pass the test. If they can drag enough dummies to pass the minimums - success has been achieved.

People (including educators) figure out what their bosses want, then work to that end. Our educational system today, all but ignores the brighter kids (they will pass the test anyway) while focusing the vast majority of time and money resources on those at the bottom of the academic scale.

Schools are attempting to deliver what the politicians have deemed as most important given the metrics.

It is a foolish way to measure a school - but it is what is being measured.

My issue is that I don't think the students are that dumb. They just couldn't care less about education. That apathy builds up like compound interest to the point where its impossible for the school system to resolve the issue. If a student graduates high school without being able to read, I can't pin that failure on the teachers.

Alas, there are many that are that dumb. The "not caring about education" is also a major problem.

The point is that if they are indeed that dumb or don't care a lick to learn, why spend all the money and time on those either too dumb or unwilling to learn.

We will never successfully legislate equal outcomes and are foolishly squandering large sums of time and money attempting that very thing. Anyone willing to work to learn deserves time and money and the average kid up to the smartest deserves time and money. But quit wasting it on those that will always be at the bottom of the academic barrel. It's akin to a track coach spending all his time and effort trying to make the "hefty" kid a sprint champ.

(11-02-2015 04:53 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 04:36 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:44 PM)Crebman Wrote:  Gentlemen - again - look at how our politicians have deemed to measure the success or failure of a given school.

The success or failure is tied to how many pass the standardized test, not how far can we take our more intelligent kids. The metrics are all based on how to get the dumbest to pass the test. If they can drag enough dummies to pass the minimums - success has been achieved.

People (including educators) figure out what their bosses want, then work to that end. Our educational system today, all but ignores the brighter kids (they will pass the test anyway) while focusing the vast majority of time and money resources on those at the bottom of the academic scale.

Schools are attempting to deliver what the politicians have deemed as most important given the metrics.

It is a foolish way to measure a school - but it is what is being measured.

My issue is that I don't think the students are that dumb. They just couldn't care less about education. That apathy builds up like compound interest to the point where its impossible for the school system to resolve the issue. If a student graduates high school without being able to read, I can't pin that failure on the teachers.

Alas, there are many that are that dumb. The "not caring about education" is also a major problem.

The point is that if they are indeed that dumb or don't care a lick to learn, why spend all the money and time on those either too dumb unwilling to learn.

We will never successfully legislate equal outcomes and are foolishly squandering large sums of time and money attempting that very thing. Anyone willing to work to learn deserves time and money and the average kid up to the smartest deserves time and money. But quit wasting it on those that will always be at the bottom of the academic barrel. It's akin to a track coach spending all his time and effort trying to make the "hefty" kid a sprint champ.

hence, NOT all men are created equal....

(11-02-2015 04:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 04:53 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 04:36 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:44 PM)Crebman Wrote:  Gentlemen - again - look at how our politicians have deemed to measure the success or failure of a given school.

The success or failure is tied to how many pass the standardized test, not how far can we take our more intelligent kids. The metrics are all based on how to get the dumbest to pass the test. If they can drag enough dummies to pass the minimums - success has been achieved.

People (including educators) figure out what their bosses want, then work to that end. Our educational system today, all but ignores the brighter kids (they will pass the test anyway) while focusing the vast majority of time and money resources on those at the bottom of the academic scale.

Schools are attempting to deliver what the politicians have deemed as most important given the metrics.

It is a foolish way to measure a school - but it is what is being measured.

My issue is that I don't think the students are that dumb. They just couldn't care less about education. That apathy builds up like compound interest to the point where its impossible for the school system to resolve the issue. If a student graduates high school without being able to read, I can't pin that failure on the teachers.

Alas, there are many that are that dumb. The "not caring about education" is also a major problem.

The point is that if they are indeed that dumb or don't care a lick to learn, why spend all the money and time on those either too dumb unwilling to learn.

We will never successfully legislate equal outcomes and are foolishly squandering large sums of time and money attempting that very thing. Anyone willing to work to learn deserves time and money and the average kid up to the smartest deserves time and money. But quit wasting it on those that will always be at the bottom of the academic barrel. It's akin to a track coach spending all his time and effort trying to make the "hefty" kid a sprint champ.

hence, NOT all men are created equal....

Precisely!

(11-02-2015 03:33 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:51 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  I wish I could see a more detailed breakdown

Anyone that thinks the Common Core has anything whatsoever to do with this just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Common Core is a problem in general.

Yes. It hasn't been implemented enough places.

3 x 5 = 15 unless you are learning common core. The whole "carrying the one" thing with addition isn't taught anymore now either. Common core makes easy stuff too complicated.

You're confusing "curriculum," the way they teach, with "standards," which is what they teach and when they teach it.

(11-02-2015 05:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:33 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Anyone that thinks the Common Core has anything whatsoever to do with this just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Common Core is a problem in general.

Yes. It hasn't been implemented enough places.

3 x 5 = 15 unless you are learning common core. The whole "carrying the one" thing with addition isn't taught anymore now either. Common core makes easy stuff too complicated.

You're confusing "curriculum," the way they teach, with "standards," which is what they teach and when they teach it.

I review my kids homework each night, etc. I had to teach her how to do the "carry the one" thing. She was like, "Daddy, that's so much easier than the way my teacher told me". I just shook my head. Whatever they are doing, it's crazy.

(11-02-2015 05:23 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 05:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:33 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Common Core is a problem in general.

Yes. It hasn't been implemented enough places.

3 x 5 = 15 unless you are learning common core. The whole "carrying the one" thing with addition isn't taught anymore now either. Common core makes easy stuff too complicated.

You're confusing "curriculum," the way they teach, with "standards," which is what they teach and when they teach it.

I review my kids homework each night, etc. I had to teach her how to do the "carry the one" thing. She was like, "Daddy, that's so much easier than the way my teacher told me". I just shook my head. Whatever they are doing, it's crazy.

I actually like common core as an IQ option.....relative to standard curriculum, it's just dayum stupid....

(11-02-2015 05:23 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 05:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:33 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Common Core is a problem in general.

Yes. It hasn't been implemented enough places.

3 x 5 = 15 unless you are learning common core. The whole "carrying the one" thing with addition isn't taught anymore now either. Common core makes easy stuff too complicated.

You're confusing "curriculum," the way they teach, with "standards," which is what they teach and when they teach it.

I review my kids homework each night, etc. I had to teach her how to do the "carry the one" thing. She was like, "Daddy, that's so much easier than the way my teacher told me". I just shook my head. Whatever they are doing, it's crazy.

There's been a lot of crazy stuff the last couple of decades. Georgia has done this integrated math experiment the last few years and its been a disaster for most students.. Instead of Geometry then Algebra II, they teach it all together. As they implement Common Core, they are likely to re-think that.

Its not the standards that are the problem.

(11-02-2015 05:23 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 05:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:33 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Common Core is a problem in general.

Yes. It hasn't been implemented enough places.

3 x 5 = 15 unless you are learning common core. The whole "carrying the one" thing with addition isn't taught anymore now either. Common core makes easy stuff too complicated.

You're confusing "curriculum," the way they teach, with "standards," which is what they teach and when they teach it.

I review my kids homework each night, etc. I had to teach her how to do the "carry the one" thing. She was like, "Daddy, that's so much easier than the way my teacher told me". I just shook my head. Whatever they are doing, it's crazy.

The common core math approach is actually something that will be a huge benefit over time if given a chance. I'll bet as an adult you use a lot more common core ideas during mental calculations than you realize. I know I can quickly come up with answers when deconstruct an odd integer into it's "parts", i.e. 364 into 300 + 60 + 4.

What I think is very interesting about this approach is that it eliminates subtraction and division and rolls them both into addition and multiplication. I know as I got older, I naturally did this myself and your homework in the higher level math classes do this for you. Why do 20/5 = 4 when in reality it's multiplying 1/5 * 20 (or 0.20 * 20)? When you think of numbers as being place holders and as simply positions on a numberline, it makes the more complicated math much easier to deal with.

The goal is to get away from "plug and chug" concepts that really don't promote learning.

Good example of subtraction by addition below.

(11-02-2015 06:02 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 05:23 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 05:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 03:33 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  Yes. It hasn't been implemented enough places.

3 x 5 = 15 unless you are learning common core. The whole "carrying the one" thing with addition isn't taught anymore now either. Common core makes easy stuff too complicated.

You're confusing "curriculum," the way they teach, with "standards," which is what they teach and when they teach it.

I review my kids homework each night, etc. I had to teach her how to do the "carry the one" thing. She was like, "Daddy, that's so much easier than the way my teacher told me". I just shook my head. Whatever they are doing, it's crazy.

The common core math approach is actually something that will be a huge benefit over time if given a chance. I'll bet as an adult you use a lot more common core ideas during mental calculations than you realize. I know I can quickly come up with answers when deconstruct an odd integer into it's "parts", i.e. 364 into 300 + 60 + 4.

What I think is very interesting about this approach is that it eliminates subtraction and division and rolls them both into addition and multiplication. I know as I got older, I naturally did this myself and your homework in the higher level math classes do this for you. Why do 20/5 = 4 when in reality it's multiplying 1/5 * 20 (or 0.20 * 20)? When you think of numbers as being place holders and as simply positions on a numberline, it makes the more complicated math much easier to deal with.

The goal is to get away from "plug and chug" concepts that really don't promote learning.

Good example of subtraction by addition below.

just for shites and giggies, this is how my brain works....always has....those damn puzzles

(250-90)+(3-7).....how's that for dyslexic conversion......lmao....

and it still works today....I told 'em all to fk off......

(11-02-2015 04:37 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Why would that student graduate in the first place?

Because they can only be held back for so long until they essentially age out of grades/high school. Parents badger the administration so that they can see their 'baby' walk across the stage and revel in the pomp and circumstance.

(11-02-2015 06:02 PM)miko33 Wrote:  The common core math approach is actually something that will be a huge benefit over time if given a chance. I'll bet as an adult you use a lot more common core ideas during mental calculations than you realize. I know I can quickly come up with answers when deconstruct an odd integer into it's "parts", i.e. 364 into 300 + 60 + 4.

What I think is very interesting about this approach is that it eliminates subtraction and division and rolls them both into addition and multiplication. I know as I got older, I naturally did this myself and your homework in the higher level math classes do this for you. Why do 20/5 = 4 when in reality it's multiplying 1/5 * 20 (or 0.20 * 20)? When you think of numbers as being place holders and as simply positions on a numberline, it makes the more complicated math much easier to deal with.

The goal is to get away from "plug and chug" concepts that really don't promote learning.

Good example of subtraction by addition below.

I disagree. Not that the approach or the thinking doesn't work, because much like stinkfist's example above, many approach math and especially money problems that way. I just don't think such a method can serve as the foundation for arithmetic. Thinking about numbers on a line IMO helps understand negative numbers. It is from that experience that students recognize the placeholder theory. But all kids start out counting real apples or other objects and add or subtract them away as necessary. It is from this POV that the 'granny method' that most of us learned built upon.

And don't get me started on the change from phonetics to sight words when it comes to reading.

Eventually we will see this: