(10-30-2015 08:31 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  REALITY CHECK: The alleged $2 million bump for no ACC Network by 2017 is critical, IMO. If we assume that has not changed, it means at worst the ACC would be 3rd in terms of payouts behind the SEC and Big Ten:

Conference |TV Revenue, $M/team/yr
SEC | $20.9M (+$6 to $10M)
B1G | $26.4M (+$? tbd)
ACC | $19.3M (+$2M = $21.3M)
Pac-12 | $21.0M
Big XII | $19.8M

The ACC will not catch either of the top two leagues in the foreseeable future, but then, did anyone realistically expect them to? Also, if you think this will make the ACC collapse, does that mean the Pac-12 and Big XII collapse as well? Do we end up with only a P2? (shut up, GTS!)

IMO, by the end of the GoR the ACC ends up paying close to $30M/year (most of the increase being due to the normal escalation of contracts), while the SEC will be paying about $35M/year by then (note: their contract is longer, thus escalates slower; also, some of their income is from the SECN and therefore non-guaranteed). Given $120M/year athletic budgets, is $5M/year (4%) a game-changer?
__________

SEE ALSO:

http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2015/1...ed-by.html

http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2015/1...art-1.html

This is NOT good news.

The acc does NOT directly compete with the big 12 or Pac 12, unlike the big ten and sec.

The acc isn't just "not catching" the big ten and sec, it is falling further behind.

The acc has the WORST cfp/ny6 deals out of the p5.

I won't bother with your $30m/$35m "gor" comment since it seems like those figures are entirely made up.

As kaplony said, it's ridiculous how people are touting this as good - or at the very least, "it's not so bad" - for the acc when it's very clearly not.

(10-30-2015 08:46 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:23 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Would Alabama have scheduled a neutral site game with you if you were not in a Power conference? Is 20+ million not enough for you? How about a little appreciation.

Alabama scheduled a neutral site game because they both fight each other in FL recruiting, Saban can get another marquee national neutral site game, and let's face it Alabama is WAY deeper than Louisville with talent. If Louisville can't handle the worst Auburn team since Chizik which is probably going to finish next to last in the SEC West ... just what in the hell are they going to do against Alabama? Alabama likes to play P5 programs that are considered "football schools" but that are flawed or down. For the same reasons bad teams like to play FCS programs from areas they recruit in. It's a free almost certain win in an area you want influence in.

Not to derail the thread any more than GTS already has, but I have to agree - I don't see how getting whipped by Alabama (an assumption, but a reasonable one) in front of a bunch of recruits helps U of L any.

(10-30-2015 08:37 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:23 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:19 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  You know, for 3 years Louisville fans were on edge wondering if we were going to get a spot in the P5 that we deserved, or be left out as a 2nd class citizen. We finally got the break and got into a conference that is a perfect for us athletically. Now it appears all that was for not and once again, we face at least a chance of being left out of the club should the ACC go away. This blows.

What? Because there's a possibility that the channel gets delayed? Would Alabama have scheduled a neutral site game with you if you were not in a Power conference? Is 20+ million not enough for you? How about a little appreciation.

Please don't take my post as being something its not. I personally love being in the ACC, as do 99% of Cardinal fans. As I said, its a perfect fit athletically and I really enjoy competing against the schools in this conference. My frustration(and you wouldn't know bc UNC will NEVER be left out of the club) comes from the seemingly ever increasing possibility of the ACC falling so far behind in the arms race that schools leave and the conference gets destroyed-thanks to ineptitude from the conference leadership on past tv deals. 2009-12 was horrible during the realignment craze wonder what was going to happen. I don't want to deal with that again, thats all. Trust me, I do appreciate what this league has provided us so far, and I want the league to be a stable home for a long time.

APPRECIATE unc DADGUMMIT!

(10-30-2015 08:54 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Is it bankrupt because it's paying like 10 different coaches who are no longer there? The Paul Hewitt things is just ridiculous.

Dan Radakovich, former AD, built a ton of new facilities that were desperately needed. An on campus softball field (previously none). A renovated Alexander Memorial Coliseum (it needed constant repair, particularly the dome roof, and was inadequate. A renovated tennis court complex. An indoor practice facility. Some renovations to the baseball field. All this was put on credit card. Granted, at historically low interest, but still, it is debt that must be serviced. Also, they're still paying Paul Hewitt not to coach. Also, they only just in the last 24 months stopped paying Gailey to not coach. Also, they're about to pay Brian Gregory to not coach. And maybe Danny Hall too.

But they were in debt before he even got there. They're even carrying around debt still from the HIDEOUS expansion of the North Endzone to appease O'Leary in 2003.

(10-30-2015 08:56 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:46 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:23 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Would Alabama have scheduled a neutral site game with you if you were not in a Power conference? Is 20+ million not enough for you? How about a little appreciation.

Alabama scheduled a neutral site game because they both fight each other in FL recruiting, Saban can get another marquee national neutral site game, and let's face it Alabama is WAY deeper than Louisville with talent. If Louisville can't handle the worst Auburn team since Chizik which is probably going to finish next to last in the SEC West ... just what in the hell are they going to do against Alabama? Alabama likes to play P5 programs that are considered "football schools" but that are flawed or down. For the same reasons bad teams like to play FCS programs from areas they recruit in. It's a free almost certain win in an area you want influence in.

Not to derail the thread any more than GTS already has, but I have to agree - I don't see how getting whipped by Alabama (an assumption, but a reasonable one) in front of a bunch of recruits helps U of L any.

Whether we win or not, it builds excitement for the program and gets us a ton of exposure by playing in the game. Something that playing a scrub to open the season would never do. I anticipate us having a really good team by 2018, not saying we will win by any means, but again, its great exposure playing in any marquee game.

(10-30-2015 08:37 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:23 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:19 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  You know, for 3 years Louisville fans were on edge wondering if we were going to get a spot in the P5 that we deserved, or be left out as a 2nd class citizen. We finally got the break and got into a conference that is a perfect for us athletically. Now it appears all that was for not and once again, we face at least a chance of being left out of the club should the ACC go away. This blows.

What? Because there's a possibility that the channel gets delayed? Would Alabama have scheduled a neutral site game with you if you were not in a Power conference? Is 20+ million not enough for you? How about a little appreciation.

Please don't take my post as being something its not. I personally love being in the ACC, as do 99% of Cardinal fans. As I said, its a perfect fit athletically and I really enjoy competing against the schools in this conference. My frustration(and you wouldn't know bc UNC will NEVER be left out of the club) comes from the seemingly ever increasing possibility of the ACC falling so far behind in the arms race that schools leave and the conference gets destroyed-thanks to ineptitude from the conference leadership on past tv deals. 2009-12 was horrible during the realignment craze wonder what was going to happen. I don't want to deal with that again, thats all. Trust me, I do appreciate what this league has provided us so far, and I want the league to be a stable home for a long time.

There will be fans that will stoke the flames (WV). There will be pessimists (FSU). ESPN has a ton of obligations that's catching up to them. In the next 2 years, the B1G is up for renewal and the new NBA contract starts. If anything, I wonder if ESPN will be willing to have a more hybrid model with the ACC than in years past.

(10-30-2015 08:31 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Do we end up with only a P2? (shut up, GTS!)

Be still my beating heart.

#TeamMegaconference
Atlantic Division: UVA, VT, UNC, NCST, Duke, WF, Pitt, WVU, UofL
Coastal Division: Clemson, USC-E, UGAg, GT, TN, FSU, UF, Auburn, UK
Southeastern Division: Alabama, Ole Miss, Miss State, LSU, Arkansas, TAMU, Texas, Vandy, Miami
Plains Division: Baylor, TCU, TTU, OU, Oklahoma St, Mizzou, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska

Permanent Rivals:
Duke-GT, TN-VT, FSU-Miami, Clemson-NCST, UNC-SC, UofL-UK, Auburn-Alabama, Vandy-WF, Texas-OU, TAMU-TCU, Baylor-TTU, OklahomaSt-Arkansas, UVA-Mizzou, Nebraska-UGAg (Corndawgs!), UF-LSU, Pitt-KState, Ole Miss-Kansas, WVU-MissState

(10-30-2015 08:31 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The alleged $2 million bump for no ACC Network by 2017 is critical, IMO.

Well the devil is in the details on that. What counts as a network? Does planning a network count? The ACC already proudly boasts of the ACC Network on ESPN.... all ESPN ACC games are branded and broadcast as such. The Tier 2 rights resold to Fox/Raycom are branded and broadcast as ACC RSN.

Its funny, no matter how much reality stares folks in the face, the ACC can NOT accept Swofford has failed and his continued leadership will equal a broken up ACC.

Live or Die with Swofford it seems like the ACC just refuses to accept Swofford is the wrong leadership.

When the ACC gets raided by SEC and B1G, it is going to be funny watching folks explain how Swofford didn't cause this.

More loyalty to Swofford than their own school. Just insane.

This issue is has become way, way more psychological than real. How much do you guys think an ACC is going to generate, especially in the early years? If the ACC made $4M more dollars from the ACC Network, that doesn't change a thing vis a vis the resource disparity between the ACC and the regional competitors in the SEC or B1G. Hell, if you TRADED the SEC and ACC TV contracts, it wouldn't make a meaningful difference between the revenues of LSU and NC State or Penn State and Syracuse.

The ACC is not catching the SEC or B1G...it can't, and there's nothing that the ACC or Swofford or anyone else can do about it. The ACC Network doesn't change that. There's no miracle to pull out of the hat for a conference with smaller schools with less fan support and less national following and non-travelling fans to keep pace with the B1G and SEC.

The PAC looked like they'd done it, like they'd cracked the code to get first rate money for a second rate product...not exactly working out like that so far. They're still right in line with the ACC and B12 and panicking about resources. You can't make filet mignon out of top round.

You can either make something perfectly edible and dare I say it, tasty out of the top round, or you can just throw it in the garbage for the maggots. But it isn't ever going to be filet mignon, and if we can only live on filet mignon, then we'll starve.

If FSU can only compete by having the same revenue as Alabama and Ohio State, it's already over and always has been.

And I am totally in favor of Swofford being replaced. He's overseen the conference from first to last place in revenue. If he can't use his gravitas and relationships to pull off some kind of network deal, which is clearly what he wanted, then there's no justification for keeping him around.

So did the bad Raycom deal in 2010 cause all this? Do we explore other options(NBC/FOX)? I just don't understand what can take so long when ESPN has all of the infrastructure already in place due to having ESPNU/SEC Network. Its not like this project would be a complete start from scratch.

(10-30-2015 09:12 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  If FSU can only compete by having the same revenue as Alabama and Ohio State, it's already over and always has been.

And you've completely missed the point while falling for the rainbow and unicorn pumpers' claims.

(10-30-2015 09:22 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  So did the bad Raycom deal in 2010 cause all this? Do we explore other options(NBC/FOX)? I just don't understand what can take so long when ESPN has all of the infrastructure already in place due to having ESPNU/SEC Network. Its not like this project would be a complete start from scratch.

Swofford signed a horrible contract. The only thing he considered was whether his son had a job.

It cost the conference and it is over. B1G and SEC will break up the ACC....just a matter of time now.

ACC screwed up and believed all his BS.

(10-30-2015 09:22 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  So did the bad Raycom deal in 2010 cause all this? Do we explore other options(NBC/FOX)? I just don't understand what can take so long when ESPN has all of the infrastructure already in place due to having ESPNU/SEC Network. Its not like this project would be a complete start from scratch.

People, the ACC cannot partner with ANYBODY other than ESPN.

(10-30-2015 09:34 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:22 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  So did the bad Raycom deal in 2010 cause all this? Do we explore other options(NBC/FOX)? I just don't understand what can take so long when ESPN has all of the infrastructure already in place due to having ESPNU/SEC Network. Its not like this project would be a complete start from scratch.

People, the ACC cannot partner with ANYBODY other than ESPN.

Technically accurate but misleading. The ACC can buy rights from ESPN and then do what they wish with them. But they have to buy them first. If something is to be done without purchasing rights back that were already sold, then yes, ESPN has total dictatorship control over that.

The ACC can buy back tier 1 from ESPN. Or tier 2 from Raycom. Or tier 2 sublet from FOX. I believe oddly enough ESPN still retains tier 3 for ESPN3. It can be dual licensed then and be blacked out on ESPN3 and regional broadcast. But I don't think any rights, at least in football/men's hoops, fall further than ESPN3.

(10-30-2015 09:34 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:22 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  So did the bad Raycom deal in 2010 cause all this? Do we explore other options(NBC/FOX)? I just don't understand what can take so long when ESPN has all of the infrastructure already in place due to having ESPNU/SEC Network. Its not like this project would be a complete start from scratch.

People, the ACC cannot partner with ANYBODY other than ESPN.

This is the weirdest idea floating around, ESPN locked up the ACC and it's not able "sell" it's rights to NBC or Fox.

The ACC is stuck.

(10-30-2015 09:28 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:12 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  If FSU can only compete by having the same revenue as Alabama and Ohio State, it's already over and always has been.

And you've completely missed the point while falling for the sunshine and unicorn pumpers' claims.

LOL, yep, that's me.

Swofford messed up, the ACC messed up, and the ACC has big problems. FSU has a big problem. Swofford should be replaced. Should have been before.

But the idea that replacing Swofford or getting an ACC network puts the ACC on financial parity with the B1G or SEC is absurd. IF that's the standard, then everything is doomed.

The question is actually REALISTIC for the ACC in terms of cash, and how does it get there?

And what does FSU need in terms of cash, and how does it get there?

If the answer is that the ACC needs to get B1G and SEC money, then the discussion is stupid anyway. An ACC network doesn't do that, and if Swofford had in 2010 signed an exact duplicate of the deal the SEC had just signed, it would still be horrible today. It's worse because of the deal Swofford signed, but the SEC deal in 2008 was absolute trash too.

If you're going to say that even if the ACC was making more than the Big 12 or PAC 12, it is still doomed, doomed, doomed, then it's doomed. There's no solution to that and there never was.

(10-30-2015 09:40 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:34 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:22 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  So did the bad Raycom deal in 2010 cause all this? Do we explore other options(NBC/FOX)? I just don't understand what can take so long when ESPN has all of the infrastructure already in place due to having ESPNU/SEC Network. Its not like this project would be a complete start from scratch.

People, the ACC cannot partner with ANYBODY other than ESPN.

This is the weirdest idea floating around, ESPN locked up the ACC and it's not able "sell" it's rights to NBC or Fox.

The ACC is stuck.

That line of thought isn't even worth discussing.

(10-30-2015 09:44 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:28 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:12 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  If FSU can only compete by having the same revenue as Alabama and Ohio State, it's already over and always has been.

And you've completely missed the point while falling for the sunshine and unicorn pumpers' claims.

LOL, yep, that's me.

Swofford messed up, the ACC messed up, and the ACC has big problems. FSU has a big problem. Swofford should be replaced. Should have been before.

But the idea that replacing Swofford or getting an ACC network puts the ACC on financial parity with the B1G or SEC is absurd. IF that's the standard, then everything is doomed.

The question is actually REALISTIC for the ACC in terms of cash, and how does it get there?

And what does FSU need in terms of cash, and how does it get there?

If the answer is that the ACC needs to get B1G and SEC money, then the discussion is stupid anyway. An ACC network doesn't do that, and if Swofford had in 2010 signed an exact duplicate of the deal the SEC had just signed, it would still be horrible today. It's worse because of the deal Swofford signed, but the SEC deal in 2008 was absolute trash too.

If you're going to say that even if the ACC was making more than the Big 12 or PAC 12, it is still doomed, doomed, doomed, then it's doomed. There's no solution to that and there never was.

Lou,
I don't think anyone is arguing that.

this is about keeping the gap from growing to large.

Also, perhaps, at least to me, getting our TV network to show some interest in the ACC outside of sh#$#@$tting on us every 5 minutes and maybe even have some talking heads ala the SEC network.


the goals aren't unreasonable and nobody is arguing to match those levels. But if the gap isn't controlled, the ACC will be picked apart.