(10-19-2015 02:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:31 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 01:44 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Show me a 20ft. fence that will stop immigration and I'll show you a 21ft. ladder.

Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you how useless that 21ft ladder is.

Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you a 1 mile tunnel.

Show me a 1 mile tunnel and I'll show you a sudden cooperation with our Israeli allies in their tunnel detection research and defense.

Securing our southern border is a serious national security concern. If an uneducated peon from some third world Central American country can simply walk across the border unimpeded then how much of a challenge is it going to pose to a terrorist trained in infiltration?

So do you feel our Northern border is more secure? Or the thousands of miles of coast?

Quote:The number of Mexican immigrants living in the U.S. illegally has declined. In 2012, 5.9 million unauthorized immigrants from Mexico lived in the U.S., down about 1 million from 2007. Despite the drop, Mexicans still make up a slight majority (52% in 2012) of unauthorized immigrants. At the same time, unauthorized immigration overall has leveled off in recent years. As a result, net migration from Mexico likely reached zero in 2010, and since then more Mexicans have left the U.S. than have arrived.

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico

Quote:Clinton said that between 2010 and 2014, there was zero net in-migration from Mexico. The census data to prove that is not in for 2014, but the numbers up to 2013 support his point, as do very preliminary 2014 data.The population of people living in America but born in Mexico fell by about 40,000 since 2010. That’s not a perfect measure, but the experts we reached said it is a strong indication of a prevailing trend.

The experts we reached said that other data, including a rapid decline in apprehensions at the border and changing demographics in Mexico add weight to the conclusion that Clinton was correct.

With a caveat for the missing year of survey information, we rate this claim Mostly True.

Bill Clinton: Zero net migration from Mexico since 2010

(10-19-2015 03:33 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:31 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 01:44 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Show me a 20ft. fence that will stop immigration and I'll show you a 21ft. ladder.

Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you how useless that 21ft ladder is.

Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you a 1 mile tunnel.

Show me a 1 mile tunnel and I'll show you a sudden cooperation with our Israeli allies in their tunnel detection research and defense.

Securing our southern border is a serious national security concern. If an uneducated peon from some third world Central American country can simply walk across the border unimpeded then how much of a challenge is it going to pose to a terrorist trained in infiltration?

So do you feel our Northern border is more secure? Or the thousands of miles of coast?

On our northern border we share security responsibilities with a willing partner. On our southern border we have a "partner" who essentially holds the door open while encouraging their citizens and others to cross at will.

As for the coast, it's about as secure as you are going to make it.

(10-19-2015 03:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:33 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:31 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you how useless that 21ft ladder is.

Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you a 1 mile tunnel.

Show me a 1 mile tunnel and I'll show you a sudden cooperation with our Israeli allies in their tunnel detection research and defense.

Securing our southern border is a serious national security concern. If an uneducated peon from some third world Central American country can simply walk across the border unimpeded then how much of a challenge is it going to pose to a terrorist trained in infiltration?

So do you feel our Northern border is more secure? Or the thousands of miles of coast?

On our southern border we have a "partner" who essentially holds the door open while encouraging their citizens and others to cross at will.

Link?

(10-19-2015 03:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Quote:Clinton said that between 2010 and 2014, there was zero net in-migration from Mexico. The census data to prove that is not in for 2014, but the numbers up to 2013 support his point, as do very preliminary 2014 data.The population of people living in America but born in Mexico fell by about 40,000 since 2010. That’s not a perfect measure, but the experts we reached said it is a strong indication of a prevailing trend.

The experts we reached said that other data, including a rapid decline in apprehensions at the border and changing demographics in Mexico add weight to the conclusion that Clinton was correct.

With a caveat for the missing year of survey information, we rate this claim Mostly True.

Bill Clinton: Zero net migration from Mexico since 2010

So it's a net of zero meaning that it hasn't stopped, but it's not gaining.

And that data concerns Mexicans. What about Guatemalans, Salvadorans, Hondurans, etc? Most of the illegals we dealt with around here were from Central America, not Mexico. Drive through just about any small SC agricultural town an you'll see an old convenience store relabeled as "Tienda Guatamala" or "Tienda Salvadorena". Back in the day they were named "Tienda Mexicana" but folks learned the Central Americans worked harder and tended to be less trouble than the Mexicans.

(10-19-2015 03:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:33 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:31 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you how useless that 21ft ladder is.

Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you a 1 mile tunnel.

Show me a 1 mile tunnel and I'll show you a sudden cooperation with our Israeli allies in their tunnel detection research and defense.

Securing our southern border is a serious national security concern. If an uneducated peon from some third world Central American country can simply walk across the border unimpeded then how much of a challenge is it going to pose to a terrorist trained in infiltration?

So do you feel our Northern border is more secure? Or the thousands of miles of coast?

On our northern border we share security responsibilities with a willing partner. On our southern border we have a "partner" who essentially holds the door open while encouraging their citizens and others to cross at will.

As for the coast, it's about as secure as you are going to make it.

But what are Canadians really doing that Mexico's not to secure the border. Both borders have countless miles of wilderness and both have checkpoints at crossings. Is it easier to get into Mexico in the first place, maybe I don't know. My guess is terrorists are most likely to enter our country legally or are born here and if they need to smuggle a weapon or something over the border it's going to be by sea.

(10-19-2015 03:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Quote:Clinton said that between 2010 and 2014, there was zero net in-migration from Mexico. The census data to prove that is not in for 2014, but the numbers up to 2013 support his point, as do very preliminary 2014 data.The population of people living in America but born in Mexico fell by about 40,000 since 2010. That’s not a perfect measure, but the experts we reached said it is a strong indication of a prevailing trend.

The experts we reached said that other data, including a rapid decline in apprehensions at the border and changing demographics in Mexico add weight to the conclusion that Clinton was correct.

With a caveat for the missing year of survey information, we rate this claim Mostly True.

Bill Clinton: Zero net migration from Mexico since 2010

So it's a net of zero meaning that it hasn't stopped, but it's not gaining.

And that data concerns Mexicans. What about Guatemalans, Salvadorans, Hondurans, etc? Most of the illegals we dealt with around here were from Central America, not Mexico. Drive through just about any small SC agricultural town an you'll see an old convenience store relabeled as "Tienda Guatamala" or "Tienda Salvadorena". Back in the day they were named "Tienda Mexicana" but folks learned the Central Americans worked harder and tended to be less trouble than the Mexicans.

Well, then post the evidence that supports your assertion. Easy peasy!

All it takes is one reading of Hungarian history to understand their mindset. That nation has to deal with the Monguls and the Ottomans ravaging their country. The nation of St. Stephen took the brunt of invasions for Europe. It is easy to critical when your country never had to deal with a Mongul horde or Ottoman battalions.

(10-19-2015 03:52 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:33 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:31 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Show me a M2HB machine gun in a tower and I'll show you a 1 mile tunnel.

Show me a 1 mile tunnel and I'll show you a sudden cooperation with our Israeli allies in their tunnel detection research and defense.

Securing our southern border is a serious national security concern. If an uneducated peon from some third world Central American country can simply walk across the border unimpeded then how much of a challenge is it going to pose to a terrorist trained in infiltration?

So do you feel our Northern border is more secure? Or the thousands of miles of coast?

On our southern border we have a "partner" who essentially holds the door open while encouraging their citizens and others to cross at will.

Link?

Translation of an official Mexican government pamphlet giving safety tips to utilize while entering illegally.

http://www.amren.com/archives/reports/gu...n-migrant/

http://fusion.net/story/6098/is-mexico-d...rn-border/

Quote:That isn’t likely to happen anytime soon. Immigration is part of the culture in Mexico, which is not only a transit point but also a country of origin for roughly 150,000 emigrants who head north each year. A 2009 survey by the Pew Research Center found that 33 percent of Mexicans say they would move to the United States if given the chance, and 18 percent said they’d make the journey even without authorization.

The Mexican government has historically taken a laissez faire approach to Central American transit.

“There’s not a strong political will to detain a large number of simple economic migrants in Mexico,” Wilson said.

But there’s also a human-rights question. The Mexican government allows thousands of Central American migrants to ride atop freight trains heading northward through Mexico — a perilous journey that leaves migrants vulnerable to abuses from gang members, as well as injuries from falling off and under the train. Cartels control smuggling routes to the U.S. and migrants— most of whom spend thousands of dollars to make the trip with coyote guides — routinely fall victim to gang violence.

(10-19-2015 03:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Quote:Clinton said that between 2010 and 2014, there was zero net in-migration from Mexico. The census data to prove that is not in for 2014, but the numbers up to 2013 support his point, as do very preliminary 2014 data.The population of people living in America but born in Mexico fell by about 40,000 since 2010. That’s not a perfect measure, but the experts we reached said it is a strong indication of a prevailing trend.

The experts we reached said that other data, including a rapid decline in apprehensions at the border and changing demographics in Mexico add weight to the conclusion that Clinton was correct.

With a caveat for the missing year of survey information, we rate this claim Mostly True.

Bill Clinton: Zero net migration from Mexico since 2010

So it's a net of zero meaning that it hasn't stopped, but it's not gaining.

And that data concerns Mexicans. What about Guatemalans, Salvadorans, Hondurans, etc? Most of the illegals we dealt with around here were from Central America, not Mexico. Drive through just about any small SC agricultural town an you'll see an old convenience store relabeled as "Tienda Guatamala" or "Tienda Salvadorena". Back in the day they were named "Tienda Mexicana" but folks learned the Central Americans worked harder and tended to be less trouble than the Mexicans.

Well, then post the evidence that supports your assertion. Easy peasy!

I wasn't the one making a false claim as fact. That would be you.

(10-19-2015 04:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Quote:Clinton said that between 2010 and 2014, there was zero net in-migration from Mexico. The census data to prove that is not in for 2014, but the numbers up to 2013 support his point, as do very preliminary 2014 data.The population of people living in America but born in Mexico fell by about 40,000 since 2010. That’s not a perfect measure, but the experts we reached said it is a strong indication of a prevailing trend.

The experts we reached said that other data, including a rapid decline in apprehensions at the border and changing demographics in Mexico add weight to the conclusion that Clinton was correct.

With a caveat for the missing year of survey information, we rate this claim Mostly True.

Bill Clinton: Zero net migration from Mexico since 2010

So it's a net of zero meaning that it hasn't stopped, but it's not gaining.

And that data concerns Mexicans. What about Guatemalans, Salvadorans, Hondurans, etc? Most of the illegals we dealt with around here were from Central America, not Mexico. Drive through just about any small SC agricultural town an you'll see an old convenience store relabeled as "Tienda Guatamala" or "Tienda Salvadorena". Back in the day they were named "Tienda Mexicana" but folks learned the Central Americans worked harder and tended to be less trouble than the Mexicans.

Well, then post the evidence that supports your assertion. Easy peasy!

I wasn't the one making a false claim as fact. That would be you.

What are you talking about? I gave you the ******* statistics that proved what I said to be true!

I find a lot of hispanics to be a net positive in their own communities. They actually DO value America more then you'll ever realize. Most of them are not here to cause serious trouble.

(10-19-2015 08:02 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I find a lot of hispanics to be a net positive in their own communities. They actually DO value America more then you'll ever realize. Most of them are not here to cause serious trouble.

You are 100% correct. Most Hispanics, like my mother, strives to assimilate to this country. The vast majority of Hispanics speak English within one generation and immediately begin celebrating "American" holidays.

(10-19-2015 08:02 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I find a lot of hispanics to be a net positive in their own communities. They actually DO value America more then you'll ever realize. Most of them are not here to cause serious trouble.

I find that to be the case with legal immigrants like my neighbors from South America and the two Cuban families I know.

It's my experience that the illegal immigrant community is parasitic, parochial, and untrustworthy.

(10-20-2015 09:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 08:02 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I find a lot of hispanics to be a net positive in their own communities. They actually DO value America more then you'll ever realize. Most of them are not here to cause serious trouble.

You are 100% correct. Most Hispanics, like my mother, strives to assimilate to this country. The vast majority of Hispanics speak English within one generation and immediately begin celebrating "American" holidays.

Unless America is willing to shoot people upon trespassing, people will continue to cross the southern border. But I don't think it's too much to ask that people use the doors and not the windows.

(10-20-2015 10:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 08:02 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I find a lot of hispanics to be a net positive in their own communities. They actually DO value America more then you'll ever realize. Most of them are not here to cause serious trouble.

You are 100% correct. Most Hispanics, like my mother, strives to assimilate to this country. The vast majority of Hispanics speak English within one generation and immediately begin celebrating "American" holidays.

Unless America is willing to shoot people upon trespassing, people will continue to cross the southern border. But I don't think it's too much to ask that people use the doors and not the windows.

Yep, come on in as long as it is legal.

(10-20-2015 11:29 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 08:02 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I find a lot of hispanics to be a net positive in their own communities. They actually DO value America more then you'll ever realize. Most of them are not here to cause serious trouble.

You are 100% correct. Most Hispanics, like my mother, strives to assimilate to this country. The vast majority of Hispanics speak English within one generation and immediately begin celebrating "American" holidays.

Unless America is willing to shoot people upon trespassing, people will continue to cross the southern border. But I don't think it's too much to ask that people use the doors and not the windows.

Yep, come on in as long as it is legal.

I guess the problem is that the door isn't so easily opened. If we want immigrants to come here legally and contribute to our country, pay taxes, and become productive citizens, then there are things we can do to change the process.

(10-20-2015 11:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:29 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 08:02 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I find a lot of hispanics to be a net positive in their own communities. They actually DO value America more then you'll ever realize. Most of them are not here to cause serious trouble.

You are 100% correct. Most Hispanics, like my mother, strives to assimilate to this country. The vast majority of Hispanics speak English within one generation and immediately begin celebrating "American" holidays.

Unless America is willing to shoot people upon trespassing, people will continue to cross the southern border. But I don't think it's too much to ask that people use the doors and not the windows.

Yep, come on in as long as it is legal.

I guess the problem is that the door isn't so easily opened. If we want immigrants to come here legally and contribute to our country, pay taxes, and become productive citizens, then there are things we can do to change the process.

Process is fine. I went through it with my wife. Major problem is staffing levels at the Department of Homeland Security. Not enough folks to handle legal immigration, much less illegal.

(10-20-2015 11:39 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:29 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  You are 100% correct. Most Hispanics, like my mother, strives to assimilate to this country. The vast majority of Hispanics speak English within one generation and immediately begin celebrating "American" holidays.

Unless America is willing to shoot people upon trespassing, people will continue to cross the southern border. But I don't think it's too much to ask that people use the doors and not the windows.

Yep, come on in as long as it is legal.

I guess the problem is that the door isn't so easily opened. If we want immigrants to come here legally and contribute to our country, pay taxes, and become productive citizens, then there are things we can do to change the process.

Process is fine. I went through it with my wife. Major problem is staffing levels at the Department of Homeland Security. Not enough folks to handle legal immigration, much less illegal.

Then perhaps it's a lack of staff. Either way, we should come to the conclusion that at least part of the illegal immigration problem is that it takes to long to come over legally.