(10-19-2015 04:01 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 03:57 PM)Buzzy82 Wrote:  I am not giving up on the coaches or players but agree with Buc66 in that the significant scoring gap in the losses is very concerning (the other teams reserves are running up the score). It speaks not just to youth but a possible mismatch in athletic ability. ETSU had an opportunity to replicate the model that GA Southern very sucessfully put in place (won a National title in year three). There is no reason that they could not have gone down that road.

There's plenty of reason. It's damn hard to start football up when your athletic administration by and large has NEVER worked with football. Basketball school A.D., university advancement 2nd in command, Radford's compliance doofus when they got popped for all that misconduct a few years back, and an academic director that's never worked anywhere but ETSU without football. Yea, that's a recipe for disaster when wins start at the top.
What's the recipe for successful football? A damn good A.D. and president that have experience in dealing with football.

All very valid points! Those should be the foundation that is in place before the process even starts!

(10-19-2015 11:27 AM)brock20 Wrote:  More perspective. Why is Kennesaw State doing that much better than us? Here is their schedule:

ETSU: 0-6
Edward Waters: 2-5 (2 wins versus fake schools)
Shorter College: 3-4 (1 win versus fake school)
Dayton: 6-0 (this is who beat kennesaw)
Point College: 6-2 (1 win versus fake school)
Gardner Webb: 2-4

Kennesaw State Opponents Overall Record: 19-21 with 3 of those wins versus fake "university of faith" schools. So it is really 16-21.

Edward Waters College, NAIA http://www.ewc.edu/
Shorter University, NCAA D2 http://su.shorter.edu/
Point University, NAIA http://point.edu/

...are not fake schools. Point's academics may lean a bit toward a 'looser' model than the other 2, but the school has been 'in business' since 1937 as Atlanta Christian College. They added football in 2012.

Football-wise, Shorter beat SEMO, an FCS OVC Team (currently tied for 5th in the OVC), this year. EWC hasn't been so hot, but Point did beat Warner 48-21 a couple of weeks ago, is tied for 1st place in their 'real' NAIA conference, and ranked 27th in the country in the 'real' NAIA.

University of Faith (both of them - NC & FL + College of Faith in AR and/or TN - hard to keep track) are a whole different kettle of fishiness. They are 'schools' that started concurrently with their football programs. I don't believe any of them are recognized by any legitimate collegiate athletics governing bodies. Not fair to the other 3 to lump them in with the charlatans running these 'schools/football programs.'

(10-19-2015 06:41 PM)FUBeAR Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 11:27 AM)brock20 Wrote:  More perspective. Why is Kennesaw State doing that much better than us? Here is their schedule:

ETSU: 0-6
Edward Waters: 2-5 (2 wins versus fake schools)
Shorter College: 3-4 (1 win versus fake school)
Dayton: 6-0 (this is who beat kennesaw)
Point College: 6-2 (1 win versus fake school)
Gardner Webb: 2-4

Kennesaw State Opponents Overall Record: 19-21 with 3 of those wins versus fake "university of faith" schools. So it is really 16-21.

Edward Waters College, NAIA http://www.ewc.edu/
Shorter University, NCAA D2 http://su.shorter.edu/
Point University, NAIA http://point.edu/

...are not fake schools. Point's academics may lean a bit toward a 'looser' model than the other 2, but the school has been 'in business' since 1937 as Atlanta Christian College. They added football in 2012.

Football-wise, Shorter beat SEMO, an FCS OVC Team (currently tied for 5th in the OVC), this year. EWC hasn't been so hot, but Point did beat Warner 48-21 a couple of weeks ago, is tied for 1st place in their 'real' NAIA conference, and ranked 27th in the country in the 'real' NAIA.

University of Faith (both of them - NC & FL + College of Faith in AR and/or TN - hard to keep track) are a whole different kettle of fishiness. They are 'schools' that started concurrently with their football programs. I don't believe any of them are recognized by any legitimate collegiate athletics governing bodies. Not fair to the other 3 to lump them in with the charlatans running these 'schools/football programs.'

I know. I was not talking about Kennesaw State's wins; I was talking about the wins of their opponents. Their opponents have 3 wins over the Faith schools. FOCUS on your reading.

(10-19-2015 06:43 PM)brock20 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 06:41 PM)FUBeAR Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 11:27 AM)brock20 Wrote:  More perspective. Why is Kennesaw State doing that much better than us? Here is their schedule:

ETSU: 0-6
Edward Waters: 2-5 (2 wins versus fake schools)
Shorter College: 3-4 (1 win versus fake school)
Dayton: 6-0 (this is who beat kennesaw)
Point College: 6-2 (1 win versus fake school)
Gardner Webb: 2-4

Kennesaw State Opponents Overall Record: 19-21 with 3 of those wins versus fake "university of faith" schools. So it is really 16-21.

Edward Waters College, NAIA http://www.ewc.edu/
Shorter University, NCAA D2 http://su.shorter.edu/
Point University, NAIA http://point.edu/

...are not fake schools. Point's academics may lean a bit toward a 'looser' model than the other 2, but the school has been 'in business' since 1937 as Atlanta Christian College. They added football in 2012.

Football-wise, Shorter beat SEMO, an FCS OVC Team (currently tied for 5th in the OVC), this year. EWC hasn't been so hot, but Point did beat Warner 48-21 a couple of weeks ago, is tied for 1st place in their 'real' NAIA conference, and ranked 27th in the country in the 'real' NAIA.

University of Faith (both of them - NC & FL + College of Faith in AR and/or TN - hard to keep track) are a whole different kettle of fishiness. They are 'schools' that started concurrently with their football programs. I don't believe any of them are recognized by any legitimate collegiate athletics governing bodies. Not fair to the other 3 to lump them in with the charlatans running these 'schools/football programs.'

I know. I was not talking about Kennesaw State's wins; I was talking about the wins of their opponents. Their opponents have 3 wins over the Faith schools. FOCUS on your reading. <--- NICE

Got you - sorry. My bad. I see that now.

Mercer took so much crap for 2 close wins over Reinhardt, currently undefeated & ranked #8 in the NAIA, that I'm probably over-sensitive to people dissing schools and/or football programs because they haven't heard of them. Actually, I think I agree with the point that you were making. I'm not so sure KSU is 'all that' yet either. Not even so sure we'll know after this week...Liberty, who was in the Top 10 at one point, I believe, seems to be all over the map with apparent good wins/ then bad, awful losses...who knows how good they are?

(10-19-2015 03:34 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  EIGHT SoCon teams automatically on the schedule next year for eight built in loses. To get three wins, we better schedule the three campuses of the College of Faith as our out of conference opponents. It's more than the loses this year -- look at the margins against FCS competition. It'll take several years to close that gap. I sure hope to be made wrong on this and things head up faster by some near miracle.

I disagree - Kennesaw did it in one year, and I would call them "competitive" this year. We'll be able to compete in the Socon next year, we just may need to get a significant number of transfers.

The other thing is, I think we are way more concerned about the record on this message board than the general community is. People I talk to generally don't think a thing about it, and dismiss the losses since it's a "freshman" team. I don't get the feeling folks are upset or surprised about this, overall.

(10-20-2015 05:23 AM)Efan Wrote:  The other thing is, I think we are way more concerned about the record on this message board than the general community is. People I talk to generally don't think a thing about it, and dismiss the losses since it's a "freshman" team. I don't get the feeling folks are upset or surprised about this, overall.

I have to agree with this on some level. I actually see and hear the community being a lot more forgiving of this team than this message board is. Now, I fully expect that to change if they don't put up a few wins next year.

(10-20-2015 07:20 AM)queenladybug817 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:23 AM)Efan Wrote:  The other thing is, I think we are way more concerned about the record on this message board than the general community is. People I talk to generally don't think a thing about it, and dismiss the losses since it's a "freshman" team. I don't get the feeling folks are upset or surprised about this, overall.

I have to agree with this on some level. I actually see and hear the community being a lot more forgiving of this team than this message board is. Now, I fully expect that to change if they don't put up a few wins next year.

Might be true but I also think the general public doesn't expect anything more, Oh ETSU has football they will probably suck and lose, Yep, just what I figured they would do. The people on this board are for the most part were kind of hoping for better. I guess you could put me in with the general public, I hoped for better but I didn't expect better, this is what I figured would happen.

(10-20-2015 09:24 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Might be true but I also think the general public doesn't expect anything more, Oh ETSU has football they will probably suck and lose, Yep, just what I figured they would do. The people on this board are for the most part were kind of hoping for better. I guess you could put me in with the general public, I hoped for better but I didn't expect better, this is what I figured would happen.

If the crowd you are hanging around with thinks like that I feel bad for you.

People in this area want ETSU to win. The small minority of outspoken people against ETSU football are former loyal Stanton employees and the "acoustic coffehouse" crowd. Now there is some apathy towards the ETSU program, but not hate. Your average tri-cities resident who roots for UT hopes to see ETSU get a win every weekend as well.

(10-20-2015 09:44 AM)brock20 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:24 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Might be true but I also think the general public doesn't expect anything more, Oh ETSU has football they will probably suck and lose, Yep, just what I figured they would do. The people on this board are for the most part were kind of hoping for better. I guess you could put me in with the general public, I hoped for better but I didn't expect better, this is what I figured would happen.

If the crowd you are hanging around with thinks like that I feel bad for you.

People in this area want ETSU to win. The small minority of outspoken people against ETSU football are former loyal Stanton employees and the "acoustic coffehouse" crowd. Now there is some apathy towards the ETSU program, but not hate. Your average tri-cities resident who roots for UT hopes to see ETSU get a win every weekend as well.

Yes. Since Noland was hired and announced the return of football, we have been told that football would be done the right way this time. And, all the rhetoric coming from athletics leading up to this season has been consistently repeating that. The result to date is the anthetisis of that message. Seems like a con job thus far. But, we're told to be patient and it will happen. Of course the jury is still locked in the jury room on that.

(10-20-2015 09:44 AM)brock20 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:24 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Might be true but I also think the general public doesn't expect anything more, Oh ETSU has football they will probably suck and lose, Yep, just what I figured they would do. The people on this board are for the most part were kind of hoping for better. I guess you could put me in with the general public, I hoped for better but I didn't expect better, this is what I figured would happen.

If the crowd you are hanging around with thinks like that I feel bad for you.

People in this area want ETSU to win. The small minority of outspoken people against ETSU football are former loyal Stanton employees and the "acoustic coffehouse" crowd. Now there is some apathy towards the ETSU program, but not hate. Your average tri-cities resident who roots for UT hopes to see ETSU get a win every weekend as well.

But in the end they don't care, they don't want ETSU to lose but if they do it isn't a big deal to them. Apathy is the right word, Those who remember football were conditioned to ETSU football being bad, it just the same old same to them, Good Luck, you are going to need it kind of thing. I was not and am not talking about the Stanton crowd who are now gloating that the return is getting off the a bad start, I am talking about the vast majority of Tri-Cities residents who just don't care either way. Sorry but it is probably 10-15% wanted it back wants it to succeed, 5% or so who hated it and wants it to fail and the rest couldn't care less one way or the other. Not sure why you highlighted part of what I said, that doesn't prove they hate ETSU football that proves they don't care.

Now there's a start-up college football schedule:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sou...tball_team

(10-20-2015 11:03 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Now there's a start-up college football schedule:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sou...tball_team

Agree, that's the route we should have gone and if you look at their 2010 schedule (their 2nd year) it's a step up from their first year schedule but still a lot easier than our current schedule.

(10-20-2015 10:40 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  But in the end they don't care, they don't want ETSU to lose but if they do it isn't a big deal to them. Apathy is the right word, Those who remember football were conditioned to ETSU football being bad, it just the same old same to them, Good Luck, you are going to need it kind of thing. I was not and am not talking about the Stanton crowd who are now gloating that the return is getting off the a bad start, I am talking about the vast majority of Tri-Cities residents who just don't care either way. Sorry but it is probably 10-15% wanted it back wants it to succeed, 5% or so who hated it and wants it to fail and the rest couldn't care less one way or the other. Not sure why you highlighted part of what I said, that doesn't prove they hate ETSU football that proves they don't care.

I don't really know how official your poll results are all the people I am around if given the option of whether they wanted ETSU to win or didnt care if they won, would choose they hoped they won. The 10-15% number would be the % of those who would actually go to a game if ETSU was putting a winner on the field.

In the last year I have seen more people wearing ETSU gear than ever. The potential is there. Are we going to catch lightning in a bottle like App State or GA Southern did? Probably not. But the potential to be a legit FCS contender with a 8000-12000 a game crowd is a reasonable goal.

Even so, if ETSU didn't draw 100 people to the game and went 0 for the next decade...does it matter? A university with the enrollment the size of ETSU has to have a football team. It's less of an embarrassment to have a bad team than it is to have no team at all.

(10-20-2015 11:03 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Now there's a start-up college football schedule:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sou...tball_team

I don't know if we could have done that schedule since we had to play so many FCS teams this year to play SoCon next year.

But you are right, our schedule is brutal.

(10-20-2015 11:47 AM)brock20 Wrote:  I don't really know how official your poll results are all the people I am around if given the option of whether they wanted ETSU to win or didnt care if they won, would choose they hoped they won. The 10-15% number would be the % of those who would actually go to a game if ETSU was putting a winner on the field.

You really aren't understanding me, not sure if you don't want to or can't. The vast majority would if asked Say they wanted ETSU to win.
IF YOU ASKED,, otherwise it would never occur to them to care one way or the other. APATHY.. don't really care but if pushed would pick the positive outcome. They don't hate it, they don't wish bad things to happen, they just don't think about it unless someone else brings it up.

I would also say most of those people if asked what is your impression of ETSU football, would say they aren't very good, never really have been.

(10-20-2015 12:15 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  You really aren't understanding me, not sure if you don't want to or can't. The vast majority would if asked Say they wanted ETSU to win.
IF YOU ASKED,, otherwise it would never occur to them to care one way or the other. APATHY.. don't really care but if pushed would pick the positive outcome. They don't hate it, they don't wish bad things to happen, they just don't think about it unless someone else brings it up.

I would also say most of those people if asked what is your impression of ETSU football, would say they aren't very good, never really have been.

My point is that while there is apathy towards the program there is not hate or ill feelings. Apathy can be fixed by winning; ill feelings and hate are harder to overcome. If we were going to pick a year to struggle, this year and next would be the years that it would be acceptable. If we start winning in year 3 people will see that those years were growing pains.

Sorry for the positive spin. You all can go back to acting like Eeyore.

(10-20-2015 11:50 AM)brock20 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:03 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Now there's a start-up college football schedule:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sou...tball_team

I don't know if we could have done that schedule since we had to play so many FCS teams this year to play SoCon next year.

But you are right, our schedule is brutal.

Did the SoCon issue us an ultimatum or something in order to come back in 2014, and be the 9th football program no later than 2016? Or, by the third recruiting class, were we expecting to be ready to compete?

(10-20-2015 11:03 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Now there's a start-up college football schedule:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sou...tball_team

Look at the attendance for those games. ETSU has never had that!

(10-20-2015 04:20 PM)Mister Jennings2 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:03 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Now there's a start-up college football schedule:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sou...tball_team

Look at the attendance for those games. ETSU has never had that!

A little different with a 3 to 4 year plan to FBS status. If they hadn't averaged that number the Sun Belt would not have probably accepted them.

(10-20-2015 07:29 PM)BucinBama Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:20 PM)Mister Jennings2 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:03 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Now there's a start-up college football schedule:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sou...tball_team

Look at the attendance for those games. ETSU has never had that!

A little different with a 3 to 4 year plan to FBS status. If they hadn't averaged that number the Sun Belt would not have probably accepted them.

They're a charter member of the Sun Belt -- 1976.