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EMU.

I understand both sides have blind spots, it's human to err.

You raised some valid points. You misconstrued most and ignored much more.

Though it is the legislatures role to introduce and pass legislation is the benchmark for success the number of laws introduced or passed?

If the House passes legislation what legislative body then takes up that bill and must pass it before it goes to the President to sign into law or veto?

How many budgets did that legislative body pass in the first 6 years of the Obama administration?

How is $18 trillion in debt and expanding beneficial moving forward?

What is the real unemployment rate after almost 2 completed terms?

Regardless of one view of the war in Iraq how has the shift in the balance of power in that region make that area, the US and the world a safer place currently and moving forward?

Is the resurrection of Soviet power as expressed in the Ukraine, Crimea, Syria (warm water port) a concern for anyone moving forward? How so or how not?

Which, if any political, socio-economic organizations you might ideologically align with were targeted, denied rightful tax status by the IRS and have filed complaints against the IRS?

How would you describe the state of race relations in the US and what would you ascribe as the contributing factors?

What are your thoughts regarding the murder of Kate Steinle in San Francisco by a convicted criminal illegal alien using a legal registered hand gun? How has the Obama's administration, including the Justice Departments handling of Sanctuary Cities played into her murder?

What are your thoughts on the root causes of the exploding murder rate in Chicago?

In the last 7 years what has the current administration effectively done to keep the development of nuclear war heads and the means to deliver them from Iran's government?

Considering the domestic state of Iran during the 2006 Iranian elections how effective was Obama's administration in supporting dissidents and use that to further weaken Iran's radical government's hold on power?

What is in the "sidebar" agreements between the IAEA and Iran that gives you peace of mind regarding the Nuke agreement this administration brokered?

From a historical perspective and projecting to the future would you more personally align with contributions of Sweden, Denmark and Norway or the US to answer the rhetorical question Senator Sanders posed?

Should Planned Parenthood sell fetal body parts and if so why?

Do you agree with that we have the unalienable rights as stated in Declaration of Independence? Do you agree to the ascribed source? If not why?

Historically speaking would you agree or not in the term: American exceptionalism? If not, why? And if not, what or who would you prefer to see in that role?

Come on GB don't get in the weeds with a policy debate. He has no idea that the data for unemployment is only where it is because 94 million "aren't officially" in the work force and hence not listed as unemployed.

And come on, do you expect him to believe that the vacuum in the Middle East was caused because we didn't leave a residual force ? Nahhh, it's all coincidence.

All that matters is Bernie Sanders promises to give away $18 trillion in unfunded goodies. 36 trillion in debt? No problem. Just keep printing more money, keep throwing money at quantitative easing, and let China pay our debt . It always works

Dear Broncos,
The republican party has never done anything for the working class people of this country. Anything that has helped came from democrats. Social Security, G.I. Bill of Rights, the right to collective bargaining, Medicare, Obama Care, etc. Republicans? Wars that are not needed, tax cuts that do nothing but help the wealthy, tax cuts, tax cuts, and nothing more. The tax cuts that Mr. Trump has proposed, according to experts, would jump the debt to 36 trillion. Yeah, we need those tax cuts.

(10-16-2015 10:51 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Broncos,
The republican party has never done anything for the working class people of this country. Anything that has helped came from democrats. Social Security, G.I. Bill of Rights, the right to collective bargaining, Medicare, Obama Care, etc. Republicans? Wars that are not needed, tax cuts that do nothing but help the wealthy, tax cuts, tax cuts, and nothing more. The tax cuts that Mr. Trump has proposed, according to experts, would jump the debt to 36 trillion. Yeah, we need those tax cuts.

WWII and Vietnam were two wars Democrats led the country into, but that as an aside.

Dear in head lights Ken,

Have a try at the questions I raised.

Dear gobaseline,
Have a try at answering the points I brought up.

(10-16-2015 10:51 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Broncos,
The republican party has never done anything for the working class people of this country. Anything that has helped came from democrats. Social Security, G.I. Bill of Rights, the right to collective bargaining, Medicare, Obama Care, etc. Republicans? Wars that are not needed, tax cuts that do nothing but help the wealthy, tax cuts, tax cuts, and nothing more. The tax cuts that Mr. Trump has proposed, according to experts, would jump the debt to 36 trillion. Yeah, we need those tax cuts.

I entered the workforce in 1980. My 401k exploded during Reagan, Bush Sr., and Clinton. Under Carter I took an entry level job paying 12k a year. There were 40 candidates for that job all with college degrees. Under Reagan we were lucky to get five qualified candidates for that job with the starting wage of 36k and a company car.

Sure, if you're a bum and a loser you'll do better under Obama or Bernie Sanders. But if your a recent college grad things are much tougher now than they were under Reagan, Bush and Clinton.

Of course if your an unskilled lug nut installer on the east side of the state and you're not making what a person with a masters degree makes, then no doubt you think you're getting screwed

(10-17-2015 09:52 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear gobaseline,
Have a try at answering the points I brought up.

Ken, you made blanket statements asserting your opinion. You're entitled to your view.

But for anyone to "answer" ... it needs to be to a question. I can assume what your implying but in deference to you I'm willing to have a conversation and let your frame it.

Would you take your point(s) and put them in a question so that I could try to answer?

That's why I listed questions. So they could be directly answered. No implication. No assuming.

Fair?

Quote:Dear Broncos,

The republican party has never done anything for the working class people of this country.

There you have it.

The role of the Federal Government is to help "working class people".

Can you define that term please?

(10-17-2015 11:45 AM)ESSSS Wrote:  

Quote:Dear Broncos,

The republican party has never done anything for the working class people of this country.

There you have it.

The role of the Federal Government is to help "working class people".

Can you define that term please?

Questions seem to allude them. But have a seat, get comfortable and wait ....

Dear ESSSS,
Which term do you need defined? Federal Government? Working Class? Role?
Yes, the role of the federal government is to help people's lives to be better, or get better. If you feel (and I take it you do) that the federal government should do nothing for people in this country, then that's your point of view. Mine is different. I don't see anything wrong with the government stepping in with programs, inspections, policies, that are there to make people's lives better.

Quote:Dear ESSSS,

Which term do you need defined? Federal

Which people are "working class"?

Dear ESSSS,
Working class people are those that have a high school education or less. Those that work in our factories, in retail, or something else.
Even those in the military who are there because they couldn't find a job in the above mentioned areas. Those are working class people.

Ken,

Which of your statement(s) did you want to make into a question that I could answer?

I know I left quite a few questions myself so as a starting point would you mind choosing any four to answer.

I'm open to dialogue.

Quote:Dear ESSSS,
Working class people are those that have a high school education or less. Those that work in our factories, in retail, or something else.
Even those in the military who are there because they couldn't find a job in the above mentioned areas.

Gotcha

"Working class" has NOTHING to do with how hard a person has had to work in their life, or how hard a person currently works.

Rather it applies to those with limited education, or those who's skills and production limit their options to "factory work, retail, military, or something else".

Why do these people deserve special attention/favors from the Federal Government?

Dear ESSSS,
All of those that were mentioned, if given some aid or help may be able to improve their standards and move up in society. Wouldn't that be better than to have a growing lower class? Why are you so against helping someone? What skin is it off of your nose anyway?

(10-17-2015 09:55 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(10-16-2015 10:51 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Broncos,
The republican party has never done anything for the working class people of this country. Anything that has helped came from democrats. Social Security, G.I. Bill of Rights, the right to collective bargaining, Medicare, Obama Care, etc. Republicans? Wars that are not needed, tax cuts that do nothing but help the wealthy, tax cuts, tax cuts, and nothing more. The tax cuts that Mr. Trump has proposed, according to experts, would jump the debt to 36 trillion. Yeah, we need those tax cuts.

I entered the workforce in 1980. My 401k exploded during Reagan, Bush Sr., and Clinton. Under Carter I took an entry level job paying 12k a year. There were 40 candidates for that job all with college degrees. Under Reagan we were lucky to get five qualified candidates for that job with the starting wage of 36k and a company car.

Sure, if you're a bum and a loser you'll do better under Obama or Bernie Sanders. But if your a recent college grad things are much tougher now than they were under Reagan, Bush and Clinton.

Of course if your an unskilled lug nut installer on the east side of the state and you're not making what a person with a masters degree makes, then no doubt you think you're getting screwed

But of course your 401k torpedo under Bush Jr. and rebounded under Obama. Trump said it best when he said the Democrats are better at the economy than the GOP and historically he is correct. I love the fact that supply side economics is more tax breaks for the upper income brackets financed by federal debt on everyone else's backs. The federal debt exploded under Reagan. Actually only Bush Jr and Clinton had the tax brackets right which coupled with a good economy produced surpluses. And about Iraqi and Middle East policy even Bush Jr admitted it was a huge mistake and one most Americans are tired of paying for.

(10-17-2015 01:37 PM)ESSSS Wrote:  

Quote:Dear ESSSS,
Working class people are those that have a high school education or less. Those that work in our factories, in retail, or something else.
Even those in the military who are there because they couldn't find a job in the above mentioned areas.

Gotcha

"Working class" has NOTHING to do with how hard a person has had to work in their life, or how hard a person currently works.

Rather it applies to those with limited education, or those who's skills and production limit their options to "factory work, retail, military, or something else".

Why do these people deserve special attention/favors from the Federal Government?

I don't know why do corporations deserve special tax loopholes and subsidies that far exceed what we spend on actual individual welfare programs? Here in Michigan Engler, Grandholm and Snyder has issued billions of chits that will overwhelm the state budget for years to come. This state's educational, municipal and transportation areas haven't improved much under the GOP's direction but the working class no matter how you define it are paying more state income taxes aren't they?

Both times for me with a second term Dem as president, things were never better.

Quote:Dear ESSSS,

All of those that were mentioned, if given some aid or help may be able to improve their standards and move up in society.

Anybody, if "given some aid or help" might be able to improve their standards and move up in society. Why do these particular groups deserve help at the expense of others?

And why do you consider only these people "the working class'?

...“They are always under the dominion of the superstition of government, and forgetting that a government produces nothing at all, they leave out of sight the first fact to be remembered in all social discussion — that the state cannot get a cent for any man without taking it from some other man, and this latter must be a man who has produced and saved it. This latter is the Forgotten Man.”.....

(10-17-2015 08:10 PM)ESSSS Wrote:  

Quote:Dear ESSSS,

All of those that were mentioned, if given some aid or help may be able to improve their standards and move up in society.

Anybody, if "given some aid or help" might be able to improve their standards and move up in society. Why do these particular groups deserve help at the expense of others?

And why do you consider only these people "the working class'?

...“They are always under the dominion of the superstition of government, and forgetting that a government produces nothing at all, they leave out of sight the first fact to be remembered in all social discussion — that the state cannot get a cent for any man without taking it from some other man, and this latter must be a man who has produced and saved it. This latter is the Forgotten Man.”.....

Nice!! +2