(10-23-2015 02:22 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(10-23-2015 02:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(10-23-2015 01:42 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I find it so odd that someone would actually believe all of this literally.

Not all of it. In the OT texts, when specific places or people are mentioned that show there is a time stamp for the prophecy - those specific markers become metaphors. Take the book of Zephaniah. It clearly states why Judah was going to experience the Day of the Lord, i.e. Baal worship and another specific false god. But those markers are discarded because "everyone" believes exactly like eric. Of course, "everyone" is actually specific groups of evangelicals or fundamentalists.

You are fooling no one.

As your own links just said, the Day of the Lord is judgement upon ALL nations and people, INCLUDING Jerusalem, which is still full of Jews who deny Jesus and worship idols.

Many Jews have been worshiping Idols for their entire history. From the Exodus, through the conquest of Canaan,, through Davids Kingdom, thorough the prophets, through Christs time, even today in 2015 and will continue until Christs return.

Zephaniah has all the nations being judged, Jesus destroying all His enemies on the earth, reigning as THE King from Jerusalem. ect.ect.ect. Jesus isn't even born until 500+ years after the Babylonian captivity, and He wasn't prophesied to reign as King on the earth until His second coming.

There is no major denomination that believes the Day of the Lord was Babylon conquering Israel. There hasn't been for the last 2000 years.

(10-23-2015 02:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  The prophecies in Daniel are another great example of that. The actual nations the book of Daniel is talking about are pushed into the metaphor camp while the wild imagery is taken as being literal.

That is just a strait up lie again. I don't know of any Christians who take the imagery of Daniel literally.

No one thinks 4 literal beasts are going to come out of the sea.

The beasts described are Kingdoms that rule the world, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. That is not an opinion or translation, those are the exact nations given for each beast in the text. Its not left open to translation. Those 4 beasts represent those specific 4 Kingdoms.

Pretty much all denominations agree with this.

Why? Because that is what the text says word for word.

Regarding the book of Daniel, don't call me a liar. I have seen too many Christian apologists try to use Daniel as future prophesy, and people reinterpreting the 4 beasts to represent Russia, the US, etc.

Regarding those links I posted about Zephaniah, yes I agree they did refer to he Day of the Lord to be the final judgment. What you fail to say about what I posted are the comments that they believe the author was addressing the Baal worship in Jerusalem. The original part seems to refer to Chaldeans as being the news to end the Jewish world but later editors gave the book a slant towards the Babylonians. To the writer at that time, it appeared that what happened to the northern kingdom could happen to Judah, and that would be the day of the Lord if both kingdoms are no more. The end of the world to the Jews would be the destruction of the temple. As I have pointed out before, textual criticism plus archaeology have revealed a deeper understanding of the biblical books. You never acknowledge what I point out and appear to treat the bible as if it was an English composition written for contemporary times, and seem to believe that each book as written by one author with zero rewrites and edits by future generations. That's not how the bible came into being.

(10-23-2015 10:23 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Regarding the book of Daniel, don't call me a liar. I have seen too many Christian apologists try to use Daniel as future prophesy, and people reinterpreting the 4 beasts to represent Russia, the US, etc.

Your right, I shouldn't use that word because the truth is a bit more complicated and you likely just don't get the context with the rest of the book and the visions of the statue and the ram and the goat.

They are all describing the same events that unfold from the Babylonian captivity to the return of Christ.

Also, you seemed to be arguing that people were taking the beasts literally, as if strange animals were coming up out of the sea.

(10-23-2015 10:23 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Regarding those links I posted about Zephaniah, yes I agree they did refer to he Day of the Lord to be the final judgment. What you fail to say about what I posted are the comments that they believe the author was addressing the Baal worship in Jerusalem. To the writer at that time, it appeared that what happened to the northern kingdom could happen to Judah, and that would be the day of the Lord if both kingdoms are no more. The end of the world to the Jews would be the destruction of the temple.

The Day of the Lord is the return of Christ and judgment upon ALL the nations on the earth. I posted every single use of the word in the OT & NT so it spells it out pretty clearly for everyone. That's not even a debated issue among the denominations.

If you go back and re-read, you will see how I never argued there were no Jews worshiping Idols then or now.

Idol Worship was not confined to just pre-Babylon captivity. It happened in the time of Moses, through Daniels time, through the time of Jesus and up until today.

The Jews have been mixing idol worship in with Judaism for thousands of years.

The Bible also refers to it as spiritual fornication. Its mentioned in Revelation as well.

(10-23-2015 10:23 PM)miko33 Wrote:  The original part seems to refer to Chaldeans as being the news to end the Jewish world but later editors gave the book a slant towards the Babylonians.

My man, the Chaldeans were the Babylonians in Daniels time. Same people in that day, among some others in the Kingdom. The Babylonian empire of the 6th century BC is also called the Chaldean 11th Dynasty.

(10-23-2015 10:23 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You never acknowledge what I point out and appear to treat the bible as if it was an English composition written for contemporary times, and seem to believe that each book as written by one author with zero rewrites and edits by future generations. That's not how the bible came into being.

No I never said any of that at all. You are just assuming that to create your gazillionth consecutive straw man to argue about.