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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #441
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 10:28 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Yes it is. See Marshall last year. They got more press than we ever have because they won all of their crappy games.

I was not trying to suggest that going 9-3 was all that matters or that we have won enough recently, but rather that going 12-0 against bad competition will get you more notice than 9-3 against our current schedule.

This is like the 'fake it till you make it' I referred to in another thread.

I think it's actually as much about the fact that they didn't lose to anyone who wasn't good as it is that they were 12-0. Had they been 11-1 with a competitive loss to a top 10 team, probably on the road... they would have gotten even more attention.

Losses matter as much as wins. I don't really buy the 'a loss is a loss' argument. Whom you lose to and by how much matters when you generally play 8-10 teams worse than 70 and 2-3 teams better than 30.
10-08-2015 11:08 AM
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At Ease Offline
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Post: #442
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 09:36 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  Rice feeds the broadcasters talking points the week of the game, through the SId or through a sit down with coaches. I wouldn't read that fact as any genuine interest or admiration in the Rice program, and it should have been clear the FOX broadcasters had no clue about our program when they kept selling our "fast-tempo offense" at the beginning of the game-- something they were told by our coaches, that anyone who had actually watched a Rice game would know is BS.

I don't know how the last three years could make any clearer that winning is not all that matters. That nice win percentage over the last few years has done absolutely zero to improve attendance, recruiting, program energy.

So what matters then? What else would have helped garner more interest?

We have to raise the quality of play and the entertainment value of how we play. I would also say a sense of overachievement is something that is missing now, but connects with people in and out of the fanbase. Typically these things all correlate with winning, but the last few years shows how you can win games without doing these things.

Hence my statement that winning in itself doesn't matter because you can either win more games by playing good football, or you can win more games by playing worse competition. The latter isn't going to do anything to reverse the long and short term problems this program faces.
10-08-2015 11:13 AM
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Post: #443
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
Being successful on either pathway will get you noticed. The difficult thing about playing an easy schedule is that it doesn't typically help your team to improve and it doesn't prepare you for a good team that you'll play in the postseason. While our OOC schedule may be a little tough for my liking, you also don't want to fill it with patsies.
10-08-2015 12:06 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #444
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 11:03 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Meanwhile UH beating a 2-3 basketball school is supposed to be a signature win. I predict it wouldn't be if Bailiff had done it.

Bailiff hasn't done it.
10-08-2015 12:36 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #445
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 12:36 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:03 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Meanwhile UH beating a 2-3 basketball school is supposed to be a signature win. I predict it wouldn't be if Bailiff had done it.

Bailiff hasn't done it.

What exactly is that "it" though?
10-08-2015 12:40 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #446
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 09:57 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:36 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  Rice feeds the broadcasters talking points the week of the game, through the SId or through a sit down with coaches. I wouldn't read that fact as any genuine interest or admiration in the Rice program, and it should have been clear the FOX broadcasters had no clue about our program when they kept selling our "fast-tempo offense" at the beginning of the game-- something they were told by our coaches, that anyone who had actually watched a Rice game would know is BS.

I don't know how the last three years could make any clearer that winning is not all that matters. That nice win percentage over the last few years has done absolutely zero to improve attendance, recruiting, program energy.

So what matters then? What else would have helped garner more interest?

Showing up against Texas.

We showed up against Texas. Players fought hard and we it performed the opponent on a majority of the snaps. Two red zone turnovers hurt (including one at the very end).

Lost that game on punt team play, a play where team speed killed us, and a turnover that was a gift touchdown.

It's ok to not be happy with that. I wasn't happy.

But saying we didn't show up against Texas would be inaccurate almost to an extreme.
10-08-2015 12:41 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #447
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 10:28 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I did not try to rank one win over the other like you just did. But no one would hve cared about us if we beat Texas but lost to WKU this year. To gain national or local attention we have to win as many games each year as possible, with the potential exception of one Top 25 loss. We aren't doing that, which is why we have no fans. It has nothing to do with the meerkat (unless yo consider that affecting our W-L column, then I agree).

True. I also expected us to show up against WKU. At this point (year 9) I expect Rice to show up and be able to play with anyone in C-USA, thats the base level of expectation. Above that, we should have shown up for Texas.

Unsurprisingly, we did neither.

As for the meercat, I couldn't care less what we run as long as we looked prepared and ready to win.
10-08-2015 12:43 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #448
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 12:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 12:36 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:03 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Meanwhile UH beating a 2-3 basketball school is supposed to be a signature win. I predict it wouldn't be if Bailiff had done it.

Bailiff hasn't done it.

What exactly is that "it" though?

Shown up to anything that could be debated to be a signature win. We haven't even come close.

Lets beat a Louisville or another team with national prominence, and we can debate it then.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2015 12:47 PM by Antarius.)
10-08-2015 12:44 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #449
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 12:41 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:57 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:36 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  Rice feeds the broadcasters talking points the week of the game, through the SId or through a sit down with coaches. I wouldn't read that fact as any genuine interest or admiration in the Rice program, and it should have been clear the FOX broadcasters had no clue about our program when they kept selling our "fast-tempo offense" at the beginning of the game-- something they were told by our coaches, that anyone who had actually watched a Rice game would know is BS.

I don't know how the last three years could make any clearer that winning is not all that matters. That nice win percentage over the last few years has done absolutely zero to improve attendance, recruiting, program energy.

So what matters then? What else would have helped garner more interest?

Showing up against Texas.

We showed up against Texas. Players fought hard and we it performed the opponent on a majority of the snaps. Two red zone turnovers hurt (including one at the very end).

Lost that game on punt team play, a play where team speed killed us, and a turnover that was a gift touchdown.

It's ok to not be happy with that. I wasn't happy.

But saying we didn't show up against Texas would be inaccurate almost to an extreme.

The bolded parts are exactly what not showing up against Texas means.
10-08-2015 12:46 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #450
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 12:46 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 12:41 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:57 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:36 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  Rice feeds the broadcasters talking points the week of the game, through the SId or through a sit down with coaches. I wouldn't read that fact as any genuine interest or admiration in the Rice program, and it should have been clear the FOX broadcasters had no clue about our program when they kept selling our "fast-tempo offense" at the beginning of the game-- something they were told by our coaches, that anyone who had actually watched a Rice game would know is BS.

I don't know how the last three years could make any clearer that winning is not all that matters. That nice win percentage over the last few years has done absolutely zero to improve attendance, recruiting, program energy.

So what matters then? What else would have helped garner more interest?

Showing up against Texas.

We showed up against Texas. Players fought hard and we it performed the opponent on a majority of the snaps. Two red zone turnovers hurt (including one at the very end).

Lost that game on punt team play, a play where team speed killed us, and a turnover that was a gift touchdown.

It's ok to not be happy with that. I wasn't happy.

But saying we didn't show up against Texas would be inaccurate almost to an extreme.

The bolded parts are exactly what not showing up against Texas means.

We have different definitions of not showing up.

Western Kentucky and Baylor clearly are better than us this year. We did not appear to be competitive.

We were competitive against Texas. If you addressed a team meeting and told them they " didn't show up " against Texas, I think they would take exception. If I were them, I would.

Against Baylor and WKU, that's a different story maybe.

But you're free to define things as you want obviously. The less broad your definition the more the term has meaning, though.
10-08-2015 01:03 PM
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #451
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
Yes, a beatdown at home makes it pretty clear that WKU is the better team. I'm missing the profundity of that statement that's supposed to let me rest easy with the loss. Even Bailiff himself said it was inexcusable, so why defend the result as though being WKU's practice squad is ok and expected? How does saying WKU is the better team make it ok that we suck?
10-08-2015 01:23 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #452
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 01:23 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Yes, a beatdown at home makes it pretty clear that WKU is the better team. I'm missing the profundity of that statement that's supposed to let me rest easy with the loss. Even Bailiff himself said it was inexcusable, so why defend the result as though being WKU's practice squad is ok and expected? How does saying WKU is the better team make it ok that we suck?

Not sure where that was stated. Please elaborate.

My comments above are addressing the "we didn't show up against Texas" claim. A claim that may be considered more appropriate applied to the Baylor and/or Western Kentucky games by some here, but I don't agree with in regard to the Texas game.

The only other comment I've made regarding Western Kentucky is that the quality of their team may not be fully apparent until the season is complete (i.e., they may be a Top 25 team after it's all said and done, one of the 1, 2 or 3 G5 teams that may get ranked by the end of the season - given their QB who was ranked last year)

That doesn't make it better or worse that they beat us soundly, but I'm addressing the posters who reference them as a Top 75 team.

When Ben Rothliesberger was a QB in the MAC, I'm sure he made a lot of opponents look badly as well.

WKU may NOT be a Top 25 team. (There are other G5's listed as Top 25 even now). But if they are, we won't know it until later in the year. And some posters here distinguish between Top 25 teams and Top 50 or 75 teams. It sure gets thrown around a lot as a perjorative.
10-08-2015 03:51 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #453
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 01:03 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  We have different definitions of not showing up.

Western Kentucky and Baylor clearly are better than us this year. We did not appear to be competitive.

We were competitive against Texas. If you addressed a team meeting and told them they " didn't show up " against Texas, I think they would take exception. If I were them, I would.

Against Baylor and WKU, that's a different story maybe.

We definitely didn't show up against Baylor or WKU. Not even a question about that.

We were competitive against Texas because they are really really bad. That doesn't mean we showed up and looked prepared to play, they just were so bad, that our lack of preparedness didn't doom us from the first minute like it did against better teams.

The turnovers were barely forced, we just coughed up the ball or threw some god awful interceptions into triple coverage. Our special teams was caught napping and forgot how to tackle.

None of these are hallmarks of a team that showed up prepared and ready to play.
10-08-2015 04:18 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #454
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 04:18 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:03 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  We have different definitions of not showing up.

Western Kentucky and Baylor clearly are better than us this year. We did not appear to be competitive.

We were competitive against Texas. If you addressed a team meeting and told them they " didn't show up " against Texas, I think they would take exception. If I were them, I would.

Against Baylor and WKU, that's a different story maybe.

We definitely didn't show up against Baylor or WKU. Not even a question about that.

We were competitive against Texas because they are really really bad. That doesn't mean we showed up and looked prepared to play, they just were so bad, that our lack of preparedness didn't doom us from the first minute like it did against better teams.

The turnovers were barely forced, we just coughed up the ball or threw some god awful interceptions into triple coverage. Our special teams was caught napping and forgot how to tackle.

None of these are hallmarks of a team that showed up prepared and ready to play.

It is possible to be prepared and ready, and still make mistakes/bad decisions (or to have an opponent make a remarkable play, but I think the former is more appropriate to the Texas game.)
10-08-2015 04:32 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #455
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 04:32 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:18 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:03 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  We have different definitions of not showing up.

Western Kentucky and Baylor clearly are better than us this year. We did not appear to be competitive.

We were competitive against Texas. If you addressed a team meeting and told them they " didn't show up " against Texas, I think they would take exception. If I were them, I would.

Against Baylor and WKU, that's a different story maybe.

We definitely didn't show up against Baylor or WKU. Not even a question about that.

We were competitive against Texas because they are really really bad. That doesn't mean we showed up and looked prepared to play, they just were so bad, that our lack of preparedness didn't doom us from the first minute like it did against better teams.

The turnovers were barely forced, we just coughed up the ball or threw some god awful interceptions into triple coverage. Our special teams was caught napping and forgot how to tackle.

None of these are hallmarks of a team that showed up prepared and ready to play.

It is possible to be prepared and ready, and still make mistakes/bad decisions (or to have an opponent make a remarkable play, but I think the former is more appropriate to the Texas game.)

Either way, we lost. And if you want to continue arguing that Rice puts out well prepared teams, then go ahead.

If this was one datapoint, then sure. But we have 9 years of Texas style losses to back up my claim.
10-08-2015 04:37 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #456
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 04:37 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:32 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:18 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:03 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  We have different definitions of not showing up.

Western Kentucky and Baylor clearly are better than us this year. We did not appear to be competitive.

We were competitive against Texas. If you addressed a team meeting and told them they " didn't show up " against Texas, I think they would take exception. If I were them, I would.

Against Baylor and WKU, that's a different story maybe.

We definitely didn't show up against Baylor or WKU. Not even a question about that.

We were competitive against Texas because they are really really bad. That doesn't mean we showed up and looked prepared to play, they just were so bad, that our lack of preparedness didn't doom us from the first minute like it did against better teams.

The turnovers were barely forced, we just coughed up the ball or threw some god awful interceptions into triple coverage. Our special teams was caught napping and forgot how to tackle.

None of these are hallmarks of a team that showed up prepared and ready to play.

It is possible to be prepared and ready, and still make mistakes/bad decisions (or to have an opponent make a remarkable play, but I think the former is more appropriate to the Texas game.)

Either way, we lost. And if you want to continue arguing that Rice puts out well prepared teams, then go ahead.

If this was one datapoint, then sure. But we have 9 years of Texas style losses to back up my claim.

Only point I'm trying to make is that, in my opinion, the team 'showed up' for the Texas game.
10-08-2015 04:40 PM
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WIowl Offline
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Post: #457
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 04:40 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:37 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:32 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:18 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:03 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  We have different definitions of not showing up.

Western Kentucky and Baylor clearly are better than us this year. We did not appear to be competitive.

We were competitive against Texas. If you addressed a team meeting and told them they " didn't show up " against Texas, I think they would take exception. If I were them, I would.

Against Baylor and WKU, that's a different story maybe.

We definitely didn't show up against Baylor or WKU. Not even a question about that.

We were competitive against Texas because they are really really bad. That doesn't mean we showed up and looked prepared to play, they just were so bad, that our lack of preparedness didn't doom us from the first minute like it did against better teams.

The turnovers were barely forced, we just coughed up the ball or threw some god awful interceptions into triple coverage. Our special teams was caught napping and forgot how to tackle.

None of these are hallmarks of a team that showed up prepared and ready to play.

It is possible to be prepared and ready, and still make mistakes/bad decisions (or to have an opponent make a remarkable play, but I think the former is more appropriate to the Texas game.)

Either way, we lost. And if you want to continue arguing that Rice puts out well prepared teams, then go ahead.

If this was one datapoint, then sure. But we have 9 years of Texas style losses to back up my claim.

Only point I'm trying to make is that, in my opinion, the team 'showed up' for the Texas game.

By spotting Texas a 21-0 lead in the first quarter? Wow, in your opinion that's showing up.
10-08-2015 08:10 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #458
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
I think debating perspectives is pointless... and more importantly, it leads to 'arguments' about perspectives, when REALLY we all have essentially the same wishes.

We all want Rice to do well. We all want Rice to do better than we are doing. The only thing we are arguing about is 'how much better' and/or how close we are... and what we need to do to get 'there'.

That's it.
10-08-2015 09:23 PM
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Post: #459
RE: Western Kentucky gamethread
(10-08-2015 04:40 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:37 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:32 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 04:18 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:03 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  We have different definitions of not showing up.

Western Kentucky and Baylor clearly are better than us this year. We did not appear to be competitive.

We were competitive against Texas. If you addressed a team meeting and told them they " didn't show up " against Texas, I think they would take exception. If I were them, I would.

Against Baylor and WKU, that's a different story maybe.

We definitely didn't show up against Baylor or WKU. Not even a question about that.

We were competitive against Texas because they are really really bad. That doesn't mean we showed up and looked prepared to play, they just were so bad, that our lack of preparedness didn't doom us from the first minute like it did against better teams.

The turnovers were barely forced, we just coughed up the ball or threw some god awful interceptions into triple coverage. Our special teams was caught napping and forgot how to tackle.

None of these are hallmarks of a team that showed up prepared and ready to play.

It is possible to be prepared and ready, and still make mistakes/bad decisions (or to have an opponent make a remarkable play, but I think the former is more appropriate to the Texas game.)

Either way, we lost. And if you want to continue arguing that Rice puts out well prepared teams, then go ahead.

If this was one datapoint, then sure. But we have 9 years of Texas style losses to back up my claim.

Only point I'm trying to make is that, in my opinion, the team 'showed up' for the Texas game.

Rick
Longhorns scored 21 points in the first quarter - Rice was not ready to play period.

Longhorns scored 21 points in the third quarter- Rice did not make adjustments or come out pumped up ready to go. You would have thought that would have happened since they were only down 7.

Unless you consider "time of possession" as showing up, not sure if we were watching the same game.
10-08-2015 09:32 PM
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