I learned one cool thing and one absurd thing from this Chron article: http://www.chron.com/news/education/arti...item-38488

Cool thing: There's a brand new Arabic Immersion magnet school that just opened in the Heights. That's pretty exciting. I tried Arabic at Rice but dropped it because I wasn't getting anywhere. If I had kids, I would totally want to put them in a language immersion school, because fluency in another language is like a superpower to me (through years of continuous effort I can get by in French, but not very well), and my understanding is that it comes extremely easily if you're exposed young enough.

Absurd thing: On the first day of school, "almost 30 adults spread along the fenced perimeter of the Heights-area school, waving American and Israeli flags while touting protest signs". Seriously. The signs included such rock-solid arguments as "everything I cared to know about Islam was taught to me by Muslims on 9/11/2001", and "Qatar out of our schools" (which I guess is a pun)?

One returned Christian missionary told a joke about Arabic must be the language spoken in heaven since it takes an eternity. The missionary was a Rice graduate-Bill Koops.

(08-24-2015 09:27 PM)JOwl Wrote:  "Qatar out of our schools" (which I guess is a pun)?

The Qatar Foundation International is (partially) funding the school. Qatari money has also funded the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Syria, and elsewhere, and Qataris funded ISIS in the early days. So, I can understand uneasiness about this.

The shootings in May in Garland, Texas were preceded by an event at the same venue called "Stand with the Prophet"... I became aware of that event about two days prior to it when I happened by Bill O'Reilly's show... an occurrence that happens maybe twice a year. We then had friends that warned us to stay away from it because there could be violence. I naturally drove by it with my daughter and saw a lot of hateful signs. I would wager that the same principals that were behind it and the subsequent event that provoked the posers that were shot outside of it are also behind the protests in Houston.

Indeed, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer are signatories on this letter, and presumably sponsors of the associated campaign. I didn't see direct evidence that they were behind the protests in Houston, but it is a reasonable supposition that they are somehow involved.

Qatar Awareness Campaign - Closing Letter to American Public - The American Report
Stop Qatar Now!

I am no fan of Qatar. And, I have concerns that this kind of Charter School are an intrusion on separation of church and state (yes, I know that Arabic is not Islam, but I think it's naive to believe that Qatar is not doing this as at least a wedge into proselytization). But, I will also never forgive Geller and Spencer for provocative acts in Garland so close to a high school when school is in session (i.e. time of year... the event was on a Sunday).

Another friend of mine took Arabic lessons from a Coptic Christian from Egypt so Arabic is just only for Muslims.

(08-25-2015 12:21 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(08-24-2015 09:27 PM)JOwl Wrote:  "Qatar out of our schools" (which I guess is a pun)?

The Qatar Foundation International is (partially) funding the school. Qatari money has also funded the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Syria, and elsewhere, and Qataris funded ISIS in the early days. So, I can understand uneasiness about this.

The shootings in May in Garland, Texas were preceded by an event at the same venue called "Stand with the Prophet"... I became aware of that event about two days prior to it when I happened by Bill O'Reilly's show... an occurrence that happens maybe twice a year. We then had friends that warned us to stay away from it because there could be violence. I naturally drove by it with my daughter and saw a lot of hateful signs. I would wager that the same principals that were behind it and the subsequent event that provoked the posers that were shot outside of it are also behind the protests in Houston.

Indeed, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer are signatories on this letter, and presumably sponsors of the associated campaign. I didn't see direct evidence that they were behind the protests in Houston, but it is a reasonable supposition that they are somehow involved.

Qatar Awareness Campaign - Closing Letter to American Public - The American Report
Stop Qatar Now!

I am no fan of Qatar. And, I have concerns that this kind of Charter School are an intrusion on separation of church and state (yes, I know that Arabic is not Islam, but I think it's naive to believe that Qatar is not doing this as at least a wedge into proselytization). But, I will also never forgive Geller and Spencer for provocative acts in Garland so close to a high school when school is in session (i.e. time of year... the event was on a Sunday).

And we have separation of church and state in Texas textbooks now or in many of our public schools?

(08-25-2015 12:23 PM)75src Wrote:  Another friend of mine took Arabic lessons from a Coptic Christian from Egypt so Arabic is just only for Muslims.

That's not what I claimed, but The Qatar Foundation is not sponsoring this for the benefit of Copts. In fact, I'd wager the same people funding the immersion school in Houston have also been benefactors of those that persecute Copts in their home country. If your Coptic friend were to convey his approval of Qatari funding to this school, then I'd be more than willing to concede that your point is important here, though no doubt, you are correct that the Arabic language is used by adherents of many religions, although decreasingly so in recent months and years.

(08-25-2015 01:08 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  And we have separation of church and state in Texas textbooks now or in many of our public schools?

Not what I claimed, and I would prefer greater adherence to the concept of separation of church and state, regardless of constitutional concerns.

The Qatar Foundation is not a religious organization. Where does separation of church and state factor in?

Now if they were protesting Qatar for totally screwing up the World Cup, that would be a different story...

(08-25-2015 02:07 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Now if they were protesting Qatar for totally screwing up the World Cup, that would be a different story...

In a similar vein, we might all pine for schools that teach genuine mastery of English...

(08-25-2015 01:27 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The Qatar Foundation is not a religious organization. Where does separation of church and state factor in?

There is no real tradition in the Islamic world of a secular organization. I would venture that the vast majority of people that want to learn Arabic want to do so because it is the language of the prophet. There are a lot that want to do it in order to do business or politics in the middle east... I don't know what the motivation for the Qatar Fund would be to finance those that want to do that. But, how many such foundations are there funding French immersion schools? Chinese immersion? Portuguese? Spanish? German? Russian?

Perhaps I am completely off base in suspecting a religious and cultural motivation. In that event, citing an example of any other similar language proselytization would help disillusion me of any unjust suspicions that there is a undertone of religion here.

(08-25-2015 02:07 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Now if they were protesting Qatar for totally screwing up the World Cup, that would be a different story...

It's not just them. It's also the damn Russians.

Actually, language magnet schools do get foreign grants, mostly as goodwill gestures. I googled and found examples of grants from the Japanese and German governments to magnet schools in the United States. And of course there's a cultural motivation - knowledge is the antidote to xenophobia.

(08-26-2015 12:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 01:27 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The Qatar Foundation is not a religious organization. Where does separation of church and state factor in?

There is no real tradition in the Islamic world of a secular organization. I would venture that the vast majority of people that want to learn Arabic want to do so because it is the language of the prophet. There are a lot that want to do it in order to do business or politics in the middle east... I don't know what the motivation for the Qatar Fund would be to finance those that want to do that. But, how many such foundations are there funding French immersion schools? Chinese immersion? Portuguese? Spanish? German? Russian?

Perhaps I am completely off base in suspecting a religious and cultural motivation. In that event, citing an example of any other similar language proselytization would help disillusion me of any unjust suspicions that there is a undertone of religion here.

(08-24-2015 09:27 PM)JOwl Wrote:  "Qatar out of our schools" (which I guess is a pun)?

If we took Qatar out of our schools, we would have never had the movie "School of Rock".

Seriously, this discussion probably needs to be moved.

This makes me happy: "Supporters of HISD's new Arabic immersion school brought smiles and signs to the campus Tuesday morning to counter an angry protest the day before."
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/...463952.php

(08-26-2015 12:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 01:27 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The Qatar Foundation is not a religious organization. Where does separation of church and state factor in?

There is no real tradition in the Islamic world of a secular organization. I would venture that the vast majority of people that want to learn Arabic want to do so because it is the language of the prophet. There are a lot that want to do it in order to do business or politics in the middle east... I don't know what the motivation for the Qatar Fund would be to finance those that want to do that. But, how many such foundations are there funding French immersion schools? Chinese immersion? Portuguese? Spanish? German? Russian?

Perhaps I am completely off base in suspecting a religious and cultural motivation. In that event, citing an example of any other similar language proselytization would help disillusion me of any unjust suspicions that there is a undertone of religion here.

I think it highly unlikely that many/most of the non-Islamic students at the Houston Arabic Immersion school(or more accurately, their parents) are driven to do so "because it is the language of the prophet".

As to your request about other examples of language proselytization, the first that jumps to my mind is of course France. Take Houston's Awty International School (not exactly the same because it's private, but it is a language immersion school from pre-school through 12). It became what it is today via grants from La Mission Laïque Française, a non-profit from Paris, that describes itself (translated from French) as "an association whose goal is the diffusion of French language and culture by the means of education abroad". Or take the Alliance Française of Houston, which does a lot of adult French language instruction and other stuff (concerts, art exhibits), and is partly funded by the French government.

I also tried googling the Houston Mandarin Immersion School, which opened in 2012. I couldn't find any reports of Chinese grants specifically to our school - but frankly I think that's because it's simply not as frightening to some since there's no connection to Muslims. But I did find this CNN article on China-sponsored language programs. One mention is of $30,000 an Ohio school is getting from the Chinese government for a Mandarin language program (not immersion, just offering classes):
"The district has been dubbed a Confucius Classroom, which in a nutshell means it has earned the support of the Chinese Ministry of Education. The funds will be used, school officials say, to support their visiting teacher from China and to foster the newly formed relationship with their sister school in the southern Chinese province of Kunming." http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/19/china.f....programs/

Why would anyone find Muslims frightening? They demonstrate their tolerance and good will over and over again.

(08-27-2015 08:03 AM)JOwl Wrote:  

(08-26-2015 12:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 01:27 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The Qatar Foundation is not a religious organization. Where does separation of church and state factor in?

There is no real tradition in the Islamic world of a secular organization. I would venture that the vast majority of people that want to learn Arabic want to do so because it is the language of the prophet. There are a lot that want to do it in order to do business or politics in the middle east... I don't know what the motivation for the Qatar Fund would be to finance those that want to do that. But, how many such foundations are there funding French immersion schools? Chinese immersion? Portuguese? Spanish? German? Russian?

Perhaps I am completely off base in suspecting a religious and cultural motivation. In that event, citing an example of any other similar language proselytization would help disillusion me of any unjust suspicions that there is a undertone of religion here.

I think it highly unlikely that many/most of the non-Islamic students at the Houston Arabic Immersion school(or more accurately, their parents) are driven to do so "because it is the language of the prophet".

As to your request about other examples of language proselytization, the first that jumps to my mind is of course France. Take Houston's Awty International School (not exactly the same because it's private, but it is a language immersion school from pre-school through 12). It became what it is today via grants from La Mission Laïque Française, a non-profit from Paris, that describes itself (translated from French) as "an association whose goal is the diffusion of French language and culture by the means of education abroad". Or take the Alliance Française of Houston, which does a lot of adult French language instruction and other stuff (concerts, art exhibits), and is partly funded by the French government.

I also tried googling the Houston Mandarin Immersion School, which opened in 2012. I couldn't find any reports of Chinese grants specifically to our school - but frankly I think that's because it's simply not as frightening to some since there's no connection to Muslims. But I did find this CNN article on China-sponsored language programs. One mention is of $30,000 an Ohio school is getting from the Chinese government for a Mandarin language program (not immersion, just offering classes):
"The district has been dubbed a Confucius Classroom, which in a nutshell means it has earned the support of the Chinese Ministry of Education. The funds will be used, school officials say, to support their visiting teacher from China and to foster the newly formed relationship with their sister school in the southern Chinese province of Kunming." http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/19/china.f....programs/

Ok, with that I second the call to move this thread.

To get a thread moved, my suggestion is to PM a moderator. That's what I've done in the past, sometimes they've agreed and sometimes they haven't.

(08-27-2015 08:24 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Ok, with that I second the call to move this thread.

Moved to WHERE? This is the Kent Rowald Memorial Quad, which is the right place for such a philosophical discussion and in which Kent would have participated as an informed and "calming" factor. We all miss him dearly. I now follow his daughter on FB and she is continuing in his legacy of tolerance and love. Peace & Light.

The purpose of forums like this is to keep them out of the view of casual observers and search engines. You have to be logged in to see these. Not being completely serious, but we don't want a google for 'Arabic school protest' to return a Rice forum as one of the top ten, yet we don't want to discourage even potentially heated debate among ourselves.

Smack, at least in my opinion is for trash talk. This is the proper place for political disagreement/debate/discussion.