(08-20-2015 12:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  From a purely financial point of view, it would be very hard for BYU to do any better in a G5 conference than they do as an independent. It's estimated (I don't think the terms have been made public) that ESPN pays them around $1 million per home game. Any games ESPN doesn't pick up they can air live on BYUTV.

If you assume they get $5 million a year from their ESPN contract, then any G5 they join would have to be getting $4MM per school for all its members just to break even. I don't think anybody is even close to that number now. And that doesn't take into account any bowl money BYU might earn and not have to share as an indy.

Add to that the psychological value of being treated as a virtual peer of P5 Utah, and there are a lot of reasons to stay a football indy. Given that the PAC is the longest of longshots, and the unstable B12 the only other P5 that's even a possibility, the odds are enormous that the Cougars will maintain their status quo for at least several more years.

But if the XII offered football-only membership, no doubt they'd take it.

(08-20-2015 01:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 12:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  From a purely financial point of view, it would be very hard for BYU to do any better in a G5 conference than they do as an independent. It's estimated (I don't think the terms have been made public) that ESPN pays them around $1 million per home game. Any games ESPN doesn't pick up they can air live on BYUTV.

If you assume they get $5 million a year from their ESPN contract, then any G5 they join would have to be getting $4MM per school for all its members just to break even. I don't think anybody is even close to that number now. And that doesn't take into account any bowl money BYU might earn and not have to share as an indy.

Add to that the psychological value of being treated as a virtual peer of P5 Utah, and there are a lot of reasons to stay a football indy. Given that the PAC is the longest of longshots, and the unstable B12 the only other P5 that's even a possibility, the odds are enormous that the Cougars will maintain their status quo for at least several more years.

But if the XII offered football-only membership, no doubt they'd take it.

Not according to their AD.

(08-20-2015 01:13 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 12:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  From a purely financial point of view, it would be very hard for BYU to do any better in a G5 conference than they do as an independent. It's estimated (I don't think the terms have been made public) that ESPN pays them around $1 million per home game. Any games ESPN doesn't pick up they can air live on BYUTV.

If you assume they get $5 million a year from their ESPN contract, then any G5 they join would have to be getting $4MM per school for all its members just to break even. I don't think anybody is even close to that number now. And that doesn't take into account any bowl money BYU might earn and not have to share as an indy.

Add to that the psychological value of being treated as a virtual peer of P5 Utah, and there are a lot of reasons to stay a football indy. Given that the PAC is the longest of longshots, and the unstable B12 the only other P5 that's even a possibility, the odds are enormous that the Cougars will maintain their status quo for at least several more years.

But if the XII offered football-only membership, no doubt they'd take it.

Not according to their AD.

He was quoted as saying "joining a conference in football only and leaving the other sports in the WCC is [not] a viable option in this environment, for the time being". Which is why I posted this originally. Notice he did not say something like "joining a P5 conference in football and leaving the other sports in the WCC is not acceptable" or "not what we are hoping for".
This sounded like some careful politically correct talk. He didn't throw the Big12 under the bus by saying they wouldn't offer that. He also didn't say BYU wouldn't accept that. He didn't say that a football only invite will never be offered. He also didn't close the door on the MWC. He really did nothing to limit his options--but just to quell the talk about football only to a P5 conference as something they might get in the short-term.

(08-20-2015 01:28 PM)f1do Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:13 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 12:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  From a purely financial point of view, it would be very hard for BYU to do any better in a G5 conference than they do as an independent. It's estimated (I don't think the terms have been made public) that ESPN pays them around $1 million per home game. Any games ESPN doesn't pick up they can air live on BYUTV.

If you assume they get $5 million a year from their ESPN contract, then any G5 they join would have to be getting $4MM per school for all its members just to break even. I don't think anybody is even close to that number now. And that doesn't take into account any bowl money BYU might earn and not have to share as an indy.

Add to that the psychological value of being treated as a virtual peer of P5 Utah, and there are a lot of reasons to stay a football indy. Given that the PAC is the longest of longshots, and the unstable B12 the only other P5 that's even a possibility, the odds are enormous that the Cougars will maintain their status quo for at least several more years.

But if the XII offered football-only membership, no doubt they'd take it.

Not according to their AD.

He was quoted as saying "joining a conference in football only and leaving the other sports in the WCC is [not] a viable option in this environment, for the time being". Which is why I posted this originally. Notice he did not say something like "joining a P5 conference in football and leaving the other sports in the WCC is not acceptable" or "not what we are hoping for".
This sounded like some careful politically correct talk. He didn't throw the Big12 under the bus by saying they wouldn't offer that. He also didn't say BYU wouldn't accept that. He didn't say that a football only invite will never be offered. He also didn't close the door on the MWC. He really did nothing to limit his options--but just to quell the talk about football only to a P5 conference as something they might get in the short-term.

Do you really get the sense that he was being hounded enough so as to need to quell it, in the first place?

(08-20-2015 12:28 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Your post seems to be influenced by your previously stated assertion that a football-invite is unrealistic.

No one knows if that's true.

This is like saying "no one knows if that's true" about Notre Dame joining a conference full-time. First, you don't need inside information to know whether this is true or not. Second, even to the extent that anyone has received inside information about conference realignment (whether it's established reporters that are believable or lowly bloggers like The Dude or me that might not be as believable), absolutely NO ONE has heard one inkling of a suggestion that any power conference is open to a football-only invite for anyone. It's a convenient message board hypothetical way to get a school like BYU into a conference, but it has no basis in reality.

Quote:Likewise, how can you know so precisely what alumni pressures the BYU AD is dealing with?

I think these are just your guesses, even if they are close to being accurate.

The alumni pressures within BYU are very well-established within that community. Conference realignment is topic #1, #2 and #3 at the AD level there. There is an *expectation* from the alums that they will be in a power conference in the near future that isn't a pie-in-the-sky-type hope, which means (a) the pressure is on the BYU leadership accordingly and (b) that BYU leadership has to go out of its way to manage expectations or else they're going to lose their jobs. On that point, that's not a guess at all from me.

Fans parse what people say way too much. People get asked questions, and they give answers. Usually, they don't read those answers from a script, and they are given spontaneously in the context of a much more wide ranging conversation. You can speculate until the cows come home about what he meant by the words he used, or alternative words he didn't use. And you'd be wasting your time and energy. When something actually happens, you will hear about it soon enough.

As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

(08-20-2015 01:48 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Do you really get the sense that he was being hounded enough so as to need to quell it, in the first place?

Are you kidding?
The pressure on the hierarchy of BYU must be enormous. Duh!

(08-20-2015 10:07 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 05:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:36 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The only schools that the MWC could add are:
Eastern Washington
Sacramento State
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Montana
North Dakota State
UTEP
UTSA
West Texas A&M

This is just in case they do lose a couple to a P5 conference. I know Scott of the PAC 12 said they are impressed with how San Diego State and Boise State grew their academics and all that, and that they could be a future PAC 12 members. So, those schools need to turn themselves into a very Heavy research institutes just like the PAC 12 schools to get in.

The ''only'' schools? And, you include West Texas A&M in that group?
I know I'm new here....but, they are DII. It would take them at least four years to even become a DI program. Not to mention all the finances, scholarships, facilities, infrastructure and Title IX complications they would have to solve, first.

And, pardon me for asking Dave.....have you ever been to the panhandle of Texas? I don't see any P5 or G5 conference wanting anything to do with Canyon Texas. Almost any other Lone Star Conference school would be a better choice for your example.

West Texas A&m was a 1A member, now FBS, back until the 1980's. They do have the ability to move up quicker than other D2 schools. The location is that they are like they are neighbors to Amarillo. They have the Amarillo's tv market alone, and not competing with other schools in the area. I do not see the other schools in the Lonestar be able to except for Midwestern State in Wichita Falls could move up. Canyon to Amarillo is like Norman to Oklahoma City. Not a far drive. Midwestern State was D1 and so was Washburn at one time. That is why you should look at the schools that you were rivals at one time.

West Texas State used to be in the MVC when they sponsered football. West Texas A&M's old rivals are:
Saint Louis
Wichita State
Bradley
Cincinnati
North Texas State
Louisville
Memphis
New Mexico State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Illinois State.

This is why bringing them back up could help. Kimbrough Memorial Stadium can seat 20,000 fans. Record breaking fans saw a Lone Star Conference game back in 2007 of 23,276. They upgraded with new football locker rooms, new sports park complex, plus their basketball gym holds 5000. The next project should upgrade the First United Bank Center to put more seatings in. As I said, they are more able to move to FBS since they were at that type of level before.

You are totally fooling yourself. West Texas A&M is in no position to move up. Especially that far of a jump.
Just because a school competed at the DI level at one time is no reason to just pencil that school in again. This isn't monopoly where you can just substitute one property for another without any consideration.

And the Texas panhandle has no ability to draw fans, schools or support. You obviously have never seen the area and are just assuming that factors will just fix themselves automatically.

What does someones rivals from 30 years ago have to do with anything? West Texas A&M is a DII school. Think about that!

You are totally dreaming to think West Texas could even move up that high in a relatively short amount of time. Unless, you are talking 8-10 years. Which makes your whole premise illogical.
Come on...this is a DII school you are suggesting for a G5 conference. Don't you see the trouble in that suggestion???
Try suggesting something plausible. Not just some day dream fantasy.

Did you really compare OU and West Texas A&M?? Come on Dude!?! Where do you think of such folly?

Buffalo went from D3 to the MAC. Houston Baptist made the leap from NAIA to get themselves into the Southland and added football just recently. Charlotte never had football before, but got invited to C-USA right away. All three had less resources than West Texas A&M to get themselves to a where they are at. West Texas A&M does have a FBS G5 type stadium already made. They are spending money to upgrading their buildings for sports and all that. You do not realized that can be better than you think they are. West Texas A&M do get more fans in the seats at time more than Sam Houston State, and Sam houston have been thinking of going to FBS. Watch when they do go to a G5 conference? See how many people will turn out?

I wonder if BYU does return to the MWC? Could they trying to convince Gonzaga to re-start football to join them in the MWC? It could knock the WCC back down to a 1 big conference in basketball.

(08-20-2015 01:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 12:28 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Your post seems to be influenced by your previously stated assertion that a football-invite is unrealistic.

No one knows if that's true.

This is like saying "no one knows if that's true" about Notre Dame joining a conference full-time. First, you don't need inside information to know whether this is true or not. Second, even to the extent that anyone has received inside information about conference realignment (whether it's established reporters that are believable or lowly bloggers like The Dude or me that might not be as believable), absolutely NO ONE has heard one inkling of a suggestion that any power conference is open to a football-only invite for anyone. It's a convenient message board hypothetical way to get a school like BYU into a conference, but it has no basis in reality.

Quote:Likewise, how can you know so precisely what alumni pressures the BYU AD is dealing with?

I think these are just your guesses, even if they are close to being accurate.

The alumni pressures within BYU are very well-established within that community. Conference realignment is topic #1, #2 and #3 at the AD level there. There is an *expectation* from the alums that they will be in a power conference in the near future that isn't a pie-in-the-sky-type hope, which means (a) the pressure is on the BYU leadership accordingly and (b) that BYU leadership has to go out of its way to manage expectations or else they're going to lose their jobs. On that point, that's not a guess at all from me.

If XII gets desperate enough, a football-only invite might be just the thing they need.

(08-20-2015 03:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 12:28 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Your post seems to be influenced by your previously stated assertion that a football-invite is unrealistic.

No one knows if that's true.

This is like saying "no one knows if that's true" about Notre Dame joining a conference full-time. First, you don't need inside information to know whether this is true or not. Second, even to the extent that anyone has received inside information about conference realignment (whether it's established reporters that are believable or lowly bloggers like The Dude or me that might not be as believable), absolutely NO ONE has heard one inkling of a suggestion that any power conference is open to a football-only invite for anyone. It's a convenient message board hypothetical way to get a school like BYU into a conference, but it has no basis in reality.

Quote:Likewise, how can you know so precisely what alumni pressures the BYU AD is dealing with?

I think these are just your guesses, even if they are close to being accurate.

The alumni pressures within BYU are very well-established within that community. Conference realignment is topic #1, #2 and #3 at the AD level there. There is an *expectation* from the alums that they will be in a power conference in the near future that isn't a pie-in-the-sky-type hope, which means (a) the pressure is on the BYU leadership accordingly and (b) that BYU leadership has to go out of its way to manage expectations or else they're going to lose their jobs. On that point, that's not a guess at all from me.

If XII gets desperate enough, a football-only invite might be just the thing they need.

I mean if they want to take the exact same path as the Big East, then yes.

(08-20-2015 03:21 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 03:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 12:28 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Your post seems to be influenced by your previously stated assertion that a football-invite is unrealistic.

No one knows if that's true.

This is like saying "no one knows if that's true" about Notre Dame joining a conference full-time. First, you don't need inside information to know whether this is true or not. Second, even to the extent that anyone has received inside information about conference realignment (whether it's established reporters that are believable or lowly bloggers like The Dude or me that might not be as believable), absolutely NO ONE has heard one inkling of a suggestion that any power conference is open to a football-only invite for anyone. It's a convenient message board hypothetical way to get a school like BYU into a conference, but it has no basis in reality.

Quote:Likewise, how can you know so precisely what alumni pressures the BYU AD is dealing with?

I think these are just your guesses, even if they are close to being accurate.

The alumni pressures within BYU are very well-established within that community. Conference realignment is topic #1, #2 and #3 at the AD level there. There is an *expectation* from the alums that they will be in a power conference in the near future that isn't a pie-in-the-sky-type hope, which means (a) the pressure is on the BYU leadership accordingly and (b) that BYU leadership has to go out of its way to manage expectations or else they're going to lose their jobs. On that point, that's not a guess at all from me.

If XII gets desperate enough, a football-only invite might be just the thing they need.

I mean if they want to take the exact same path as the Big East, then yes.

The path they'd be walking down is to obtain a CCG with 12 members, without having to send non-fb teams to Utah.

(08-20-2015 03:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 10:07 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 05:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:36 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The only schools that the MWC could add are:
Eastern Washington
Sacramento State
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Montana
North Dakota State
UTEP
UTSA
West Texas A&M

This is just in case they do lose a couple to a P5 conference. I know Scott of the PAC 12 said they are impressed with how San Diego State and Boise State grew their academics and all that, and that they could be a future PAC 12 members. So, those schools need to turn themselves into a very Heavy research institutes just like the PAC 12 schools to get in.

The ''only'' schools? And, you include West Texas A&M in that group?
I know I'm new here....but, they are DII. It would take them at least four years to even become a DI program. Not to mention all the finances, scholarships, facilities, infrastructure and Title IX complications they would have to solve, first.

And, pardon me for asking Dave.....have you ever been to the panhandle of Texas? I don't see any P5 or G5 conference wanting anything to do with Canyon Texas. Almost any other Lone Star Conference school would be a better choice for your example.

West Texas A&m was a 1A member, now FBS, back until the 1980's. They do have the ability to move up quicker than other D2 schools. The location is that they are like they are neighbors to Amarillo. They have the Amarillo's tv market alone, and not competing with other schools in the area. I do not see the other schools in the Lonestar be able to except for Midwestern State in Wichita Falls could move up. Canyon to Amarillo is like Norman to Oklahoma City. Not a far drive. Midwestern State was D1 and so was Washburn at one time. That is why you should look at the schools that you were rivals at one time.

West Texas State used to be in the MVC when they sponsered football. West Texas A&M's old rivals are:
Saint Louis
Wichita State
Bradley
Cincinnati
North Texas State
Louisville
Memphis
New Mexico State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Illinois State.

This is why bringing them back up could help. Kimbrough Memorial Stadium can seat 20,000 fans. Record breaking fans saw a Lone Star Conference game back in 2007 of 23,276. They upgraded with new football locker rooms, new sports park complex, plus their basketball gym holds 5000. The next project should upgrade the First United Bank Center to put more seatings in. As I said, they are more able to move to FBS since they were at that type of level before.

You are totally fooling yourself. West Texas A&M is in no position to move up. Especially that far of a jump.
Just because a school competed at the DI level at one time is no reason to just pencil that school in again. This isn't monopoly where you can just substitute one property for another without any consideration.

And the Texas panhandle has no ability to draw fans, schools or support. You obviously have never seen the area and are just assuming that factors will just fix themselves automatically.

What does someones rivals from 30 years ago have to do with anything? West Texas A&M is a DII school. Think about that!

You are totally dreaming to think West Texas could even move up that high in a relatively short amount of time. Unless, you are talking 8-10 years. Which makes your whole premise illogical.
Come on...this is a DII school you are suggesting for a G5 conference. Don't you see the trouble in that suggestion???
Try suggesting something plausible. Not just some day dream fantasy.

Did you really compare OU and West Texas A&M?? Come on Dude!?! Where do you think of such folly?

Buffalo went from D3 to the MAC. Houston Baptist made the leap from NAIA to get themselves into the Southland and added football just recently. Charlotte never had football before, but got invited to C-USA right away. All three had less resources than West Texas A&M to get themselves to a where they are at. West Texas A&M does have a FBS G5 type stadium already made. They are spending money to upgrading their buildings for sports and all that. You do not realized that can be better than you think they are. West Texas A&M do get more fans in the seats at time more than Sam Houston State, and Sam houston have been thinking of going to FBS. Watch when they do go to a G5 conference? See how many people will turn out?

None of that matters Bro.
You are talking about a school that is about 8 years away from being ready.
And you are acting like you could just sub them in right now to a current G5 conference.
It won't work.
Plus, how will you get any of the other schools on your list to accept them? You think UTEP is going to want to play against West Texas A&M? What about the other MWC schools...have you thought about asking them if they are satisfied with a DII member joining?
Get real!

(08-20-2015 03:46 PM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 03:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 10:07 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 05:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:36 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  The ''only'' schools? And, you include West Texas A&M in that group?
I know I'm new here....but, they are DII. It would take them at least four years to even become a DI program. Not to mention all the finances, scholarships, facilities, infrastructure and Title IX complications they would have to solve, first.

And, pardon me for asking Dave.....have you ever been to the panhandle of Texas? I don't see any P5 or G5 conference wanting anything to do with Canyon Texas. Almost any other Lone Star Conference school would be a better choice for your example.

West Texas A&m was a 1A member, now FBS, back until the 1980's. They do have the ability to move up quicker than other D2 schools. The location is that they are like they are neighbors to Amarillo. They have the Amarillo's tv market alone, and not competing with other schools in the area. I do not see the other schools in the Lonestar be able to except for Midwestern State in Wichita Falls could move up. Canyon to Amarillo is like Norman to Oklahoma City. Not a far drive. Midwestern State was D1 and so was Washburn at one time. That is why you should look at the schools that you were rivals at one time.

West Texas State used to be in the MVC when they sponsered football. West Texas A&M's old rivals are:
Saint Louis
Wichita State
Bradley
Cincinnati
North Texas State
Louisville
Memphis
New Mexico State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Illinois State.

This is why bringing them back up could help. Kimbrough Memorial Stadium can seat 20,000 fans. Record breaking fans saw a Lone Star Conference game back in 2007 of 23,276. They upgraded with new football locker rooms, new sports park complex, plus their basketball gym holds 5000. The next project should upgrade the First United Bank Center to put more seatings in. As I said, they are more able to move to FBS since they were at that type of level before.

You are totally fooling yourself. West Texas A&M is in no position to move up. Especially that far of a jump.
Just because a school competed at the DI level at one time is no reason to just pencil that school in again. This isn't monopoly where you can just substitute one property for another without any consideration.

And the Texas panhandle has no ability to draw fans, schools or support. You obviously have never seen the area and are just assuming that factors will just fix themselves automatically.

What does someones rivals from 30 years ago have to do with anything? West Texas A&M is a DII school. Think about that!

You are totally dreaming to think West Texas could even move up that high in a relatively short amount of time. Unless, you are talking 8-10 years. Which makes your whole premise illogical.
Come on...this is a DII school you are suggesting for a G5 conference. Don't you see the trouble in that suggestion???
Try suggesting something plausible. Not just some day dream fantasy.

Did you really compare OU and West Texas A&M?? Come on Dude!?! Where do you think of such folly?

Buffalo went from D3 to the MAC. Houston Baptist made the leap from NAIA to get themselves into the Southland and added football just recently. Charlotte never had football before, but got invited to C-USA right away. All three had less resources than West Texas A&M to get themselves to a where they are at. West Texas A&M does have a FBS G5 type stadium already made. They are spending money to upgrading their buildings for sports and all that. You do not realized that can be better than you think they are. West Texas A&M do get more fans in the seats at time more than Sam Houston State, and Sam houston have been thinking of going to FBS. Watch when they do go to a G5 conference? See how many people will turn out?

None of that matters Bro.
You are talking about a school that is about 8 years away from being ready.
And you are acting like you could just sub them in right now to a current G5 conference.
It won't work.
Plus, how will you get any of the other schools on your list to accept them? You think UTEP is going to want to play against West Texas A&M? What about the other MWC schools...have you thought about asking them if they are satisfied with a DII member joining?
Get real!

I see no other options if none of the Big Sky, Houston, SMU or other schools to join. WAC had to dip down to D2 to pull a school to get where they are at. They are more ready than Sam Houston State.

People saw TCU play in a league with Pacific time zone members TWICE. One of which was Hawaii. Time zone is overblown with divisions and only one far west addition

(08-20-2015 03:49 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 03:46 PM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 03:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 10:07 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 05:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  West Texas A&m was a 1A member, now FBS, back until the 1980's. They do have the ability to move up quicker than other D2 schools. The location is that they are like they are neighbors to Amarillo. They have the Amarillo's tv market alone, and not competing with other schools in the area. I do not see the other schools in the Lonestar be able to except for Midwestern State in Wichita Falls could move up. Canyon to Amarillo is like Norman to Oklahoma City. Not a far drive. Midwestern State was D1 and so was Washburn at one time. That is why you should look at the schools that you were rivals at one time.

West Texas State used to be in the MVC when they sponsered football. West Texas A&M's old rivals are:
Saint Louis
Wichita State
Bradley
Cincinnati
North Texas State
Louisville
Memphis
New Mexico State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Illinois State.

This is why bringing them back up could help. Kimbrough Memorial Stadium can seat 20,000 fans. Record breaking fans saw a Lone Star Conference game back in 2007 of 23,276. They upgraded with new football locker rooms, new sports park complex, plus their basketball gym holds 5000. The next project should upgrade the First United Bank Center to put more seatings in. As I said, they are more able to move to FBS since they were at that type of level before.

You are totally fooling yourself. West Texas A&M is in no position to move up. Especially that far of a jump.
Just because a school competed at the DI level at one time is no reason to just pencil that school in again. This isn't monopoly where you can just substitute one property for another without any consideration.

And the Texas panhandle has no ability to draw fans, schools or support. You obviously have never seen the area and are just assuming that factors will just fix themselves automatically.

What does someones rivals from 30 years ago have to do with anything? West Texas A&M is a DII school. Think about that!

You are totally dreaming to think West Texas could even move up that high in a relatively short amount of time. Unless, you are talking 8-10 years. Which makes your whole premise illogical.
Come on...this is a DII school you are suggesting for a G5 conference. Don't you see the trouble in that suggestion???
Try suggesting something plausible. Not just some day dream fantasy.

Did you really compare OU and West Texas A&M?? Come on Dude!?! Where do you think of such folly?

Buffalo went from D3 to the MAC. Houston Baptist made the leap from NAIA to get themselves into the Southland and added football just recently. Charlotte never had football before, but got invited to C-USA right away. All three had less resources than West Texas A&M to get themselves to a where they are at. West Texas A&M does have a FBS G5 type stadium already made. They are spending money to upgrading their buildings for sports and all that. You do not realized that can be better than you think they are. West Texas A&M do get more fans in the seats at time more than Sam Houston State, and Sam houston have been thinking of going to FBS. Watch when they do go to a G5 conference? See how many people will turn out?

None of that matters Bro.
You are talking about a school that is about 8 years away from being ready.
And you are acting like you could just sub them in right now to a current G5 conference.
It won't work.
Plus, how will you get any of the other schools on your list to accept them? You think UTEP is going to want to play against West Texas A&M? What about the other MWC schools...have you thought about asking them if they are satisfied with a DII member joining?
Get real!

I see no other options if none of the Big Sky, Houston, SMU or other schools to join. WAC had to dip down to D2 to pull a school to get where they are at. They are more ready than Sam Houston State.

I understand that the options might 'look' slim for MWC expansion, but, you can't just ignore basic principals of realignment or school growth to make a point. And the fact is...it takes a minimum of four years to become DI.
Then, it takes a minimum of two years to become FBS.
And that is if everything goes perfectly.
West Texas is a long way away from being ready for the Sun Belt....let, alone the MWC.

The MWC has better options than you are giving them credit. And we could discuss them in the MWC forum.

(08-19-2015 06:50 PM)f1do Wrote:  I don't think they could afford to rejoin the MWC--at least within the next 4-5 years--for these reasons:
- Buyouts of all their future independent schedule--some games have outs in them but that is for joining a new or existing league with a certain number of "P5 teams" in them. The rest is money out of your pocket. BYU has 11 games in 2016, 12 in 2017, 10 in 2018, 9 in 2019, 8 in 2020 so its not like they can't fill their schedule at least for several more years.
- ESPN contract pays much more than a share of the MWC money would. So no chance of this until at least 2018 (ESPN has option for 2019 as well) when their contract is up for renewal.
- Loss of prestige--the ACC/SEC/B1G count BYU games as P5 for their scheduling guidelines--if they went to a G5 conference, no way those continue to count and scheduling P5 teams--especially H/H--becomes tougher in the future.

Though in the article originally linked Holmoe does say he would "never say never" to joining the MWC again. I just don't see any benefit (saving face, ease of scheduling, etc.) of doing so outweighing the drawbacks compared to independence. Joining a P5 conference on the other hand certainly makes life better than as an independent.

As a BYU fan and a regular poster on here I know you don't want BYU to rejoin the mwc and you almost seem happy with the AAC for your Coogs BUT, it looks like you guys are itching closer and closer back to it based on that link. I guess BYU to the AAC in all sports is too expensive (travel costs)..the bowl situation sucks for you guys, you'll have to join some conference in the near future it sounds like. I could be wrong but if I had to bet BYU will back to the MWC by new tv contract time in 2020. The PAC and Big 12 aren't biting and the AAC won't work unless AF, Boise, CSU, UNM come with you. MHO. Cheers!

(08-20-2015 04:21 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  As a BYU fan and a regular poster on here I know you don't want BYU to rejoin the mwc and you almost seem happy with the AAC for your Coogs BUT, it looks like you guys are itching closer and closer back to it based on that link. I guess BYU to the AAC in all sports is too expensive (travel costs)..the bowl situation sucks for you guys, you'll have to join some conference in the near future it sounds like. I could be wrong but if I had to bet BYU will back to the MWC by new tv contract time in 2020. The PAC and Big 12 aren't biting and the AAC won't work unless AF, Boise, CSU, UNM come with you. MHO. Cheers!

You can't infer anything of the sort based on the link. Just because BYU's AD said yesterday "never say never" to the MWC? We have four MWC opponents in 2015. Six in 2017. The BYU AD isn't going to throw mud at the MWC when they obviously provide an important piece to schedule.

But BYU isn't returning to the MWC. Reason #1 is that Utah St. is part of the conference now. BYU and Utah St. will not be in the same conference.

Independence is working fine. Some BYU fans are freaking out because they don't recognize some of the names on the schedule and we host some FCS opponent called Wagner. There was a recent Cougarboard thread complaining about Cincinnati and ECU - as if they were an FCS opponent - completely ignorant to the fact that Cincinnati played in BCS bowls and ECU would have kicked BYU's butt last year (post-Taysom injury, of course...).

But, if independence doesn't pan out (and you're right that it wouldn't until 2020 or so), the AAC with some of those western institutions could be a fantastic win-win for all involved - and could establish a very exciting football conference.

(08-20-2015 04:40 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 04:21 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  As a BYU fan and a regular poster on here I know you don't want BYU to rejoin the mwc and you almost seem happy with the AAC for your Coogs BUT, it looks like you guys are itching closer and closer back to it based on that link. I guess BYU to the AAC in all sports is too expensive (travel costs)..the bowl situation sucks for you guys, you'll have to join some conference in the near future it sounds like. I could be wrong but if I had to bet BYU will back to the MWC by new tv contract time in 2020. The PAC and Big 12 aren't biting and the AAC won't work unless AF, Boise, CSU, UNM come with you. MHO. Cheers!

You can't infer anything of the sort based on the link. Just because BYU's AD said yesterday "never say never" to the MWC? We have four MWC opponents in 2015. Six in 2017. The BYU AD isn't going to throw mud at the MWC when they obviously provide an important piece to schedule.

But BYU isn't returning to the MWC. Reason #1 is that Utah St. is part of the conference now. BYU and Utah St. will not be in the same conference.

Independence is working fine. Some BYU fans are freaking out because they don't recognize some of the names on the schedule and we host some FCS opponent called Wagner. There was a recent Cougarboard thread complaining about Cincinnati and ECU - as if they were an FCS opponent - completely ignorant to the fact that Cincinnati played in BCS bowls and ECU would have kicked BYU's butt last year (post-Taysom injury, of course...).

But, if independence doesn't pan out (and you're right that it wouldn't until 2020 or so), the AAC with some of those western institutions could be a fantastic win-win for all involved - and could establish a very exciting football conference.

Were they really complaining about playing Cincinnati? How do BYU fans not know about Cincinnati? I guess being out West you guys only think about western schools but both ECU and Cinci have better programs than San Jose State, Utah State, etc. Also you guys play UCONN and Wagner. UCONN is terrible and Wagner plays in a high school stadium. Now that is small time.

(08-20-2015 03:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 03:21 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 03:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 12:28 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Your post seems to be influenced by your previously stated assertion that a football-invite is unrealistic.

No one knows if that's true.

This is like saying "no one knows if that's true" about Notre Dame joining a conference full-time. First, you don't need inside information to know whether this is true or not. Second, even to the extent that anyone has received inside information about conference realignment (whether it's established reporters that are believable or lowly bloggers like The Dude or me that might not be as believable), absolutely NO ONE has heard one inkling of a suggestion that any power conference is open to a football-only invite for anyone. It's a convenient message board hypothetical way to get a school like BYU into a conference, but it has no basis in reality.

Quote:Likewise, how can you know so precisely what alumni pressures the BYU AD is dealing with?

I think these are just your guesses, even if they are close to being accurate.

The alumni pressures within BYU are very well-established within that community. Conference realignment is topic #1, #2 and #3 at the AD level there. There is an *expectation* from the alums that they will be in a power conference in the near future that isn't a pie-in-the-sky-type hope, which means (a) the pressure is on the BYU leadership accordingly and (b) that BYU leadership has to go out of its way to manage expectations or else they're going to lose their jobs. On that point, that's not a guess at all from me.

If XII gets desperate enough, a football-only invite might be just the thing they need.

I mean if they want to take the exact same path as the Big East, then yes.

The path they'd be walking down is to obtain a CCG with 12 members, without having to send non-fb teams to Utah.

So according to you, they're definitely expanding.