(08-11-2015 07:45 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(08-10-2015 11:52 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I need to save post #16. It will be worth a good laugh next summer.

They say this every 4 years. I remember then they refused to vote for Mittens. It's funny. Save #16.

Yup. I remember Glenn Beck saying he would never compromise his principles, then when Mitt won the nomination, he backtracked and urged everyone to vote for him.

I don't get it. I thought Trump did a miserable job at the debate. What the heck is everybody else seeing that I am not?

(08-11-2015 10:07 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  I don't get it. I thought Trump did a miserable job at the debate. What the heck is everybody else seeing that I am not?

Anger. Conservatives are angry people.

(08-11-2015 10:07 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  I don't get it. I thought Trump did a miserable job at the debate. What the heck is everybody else seeing that I am not?

Trump's supporters have taken on Trump’s cult of personality. They are like a bunch of little Trumps under a spell. It is pretty funny. I'll be interested to see a legitimate poll (not online) come out this week. Up until these last 4 days, while Trump wasn't my choice, I was open to supporting him under circumstances. I can't be the only one he lost, but the online polls say he lost nothing or even gained.

(08-11-2015 10:07 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  I don't get it. I thought Trump did a miserable job at the debate. What the heck is everybody else seeing that I am not?

People want someone to fight for what they believe in. Like immigration. Democrats have blocked, stalled, and then simply didnt take the issue up when they had the chance with supermajorities. People want something done, and they want someone with Trumps attitude about getting it done.


The reason Rubio is deflated in the polls is because some people say he's too nice. What they are really saying is that they want him to get out, get mad, and fight.

Why do people like Ted Cruz? Cause he fights, and he will steamroll over the lying majority leader.

Why did Carly do so well? Because she came out swinging.

Trumps number will start to go down as soon as one of the other candidates show they will take the fight to Washington. To the press. To the liberals.

Basically, the american voting public are tired of cuckolds in their party.

I was blown away to hear that Ann Coulter is supporting Trump.

(08-11-2015 08:40 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 08:27 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The right has no unification because they have nothing to unify around. They're all over the place. They have no message other than repeal Obamacare, reverse Roe v. Wade, reverse gay marriage, nothing really positive in any of that. If the economic message is growth, then explain how their ideas cause growth and why that is good for everybody.
They need something like Newt's contract. And here's something to remember about the contract. It wasn't just a bunch of ideas thrown together. It was a bunch of ideas that had been polled and tested to make sure they would play well with the electorate. And it was put to the party as here's a message we can win with, so don't get off message. When some interviewer tries to get you off message, take it back to the message.

Of course, any ideas you present have to be within that parameters of what various factions of the right consider acceptable. For example, I would be okay with a health care bill that increases the number of residency programs and increases funding and decreases regulations for clinical trials, but would the hardcore budget hawks go for that? One tax idea the Democrats have posited that I think is reasonable is paying social security on all income, but how many people do you alienate with that?
With Republicans you are trying to herd cats.
The Democrats just have a much more stable coalition. For example, the Democrat party can pretty much take for granted the black vote and can pretty much take for granted they will get the votes of people who vote on labor issues. In general elections they don't have to really do a whole lot to tell those groups they give a crap.

Do what Newt did in 1994. These are the issues republicans are going to run on because these are the issues that republicans can win on. That's the party line, and you stay on script. You get asked about something else, you take it back to the script.

(08-11-2015 08:40 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 08:27 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The right has no unification because they have nothing to unify around. They're all over the place. They have no message other than repeal Obamacare, reverse Roe v. Wade, reverse gay marriage, nothing really positive in any of that. If the economic message is growth, then explain how their ideas cause growth and why that is good for everybody.
They need something like Newt's contract. And here's something to remember about the contract. It wasn't just a bunch of ideas thrown together. It was a bunch of ideas that had been polled and tested to make sure they would play well with the electorate. And it was put to the party as here's a message we can win with, so don't get off message. When some interviewer tries to get you off message, take it back to the message.

Of course, any ideas you present have to be within that parameters of what various factions of the right consider acceptable. For example, I would be okay with a health care bill that increases the number of residency programs and increases funding and decreases regulations for clinical trials, but would the hardcore budget hawks go for that? One tax idea the Democrats have posited that I think is reasonable is paying social security on all income, but how many people do you alienate with that?
With Republicans you are trying to herd cats.
The Democrats just have a much more stable coalition. For example, the Democrat party can pretty much take for granted the black vote and can pretty much take for granted they will get the votes of people who vote on labor issues. In general elections they don't have to really do a whole lot to tell those groups they give a crap.

Here's the way I see the problem. Hard core republicans, particularly the religious right, have this "my way or the highway" approach--I'm going to get every single thing I want, or you can go suck eggs. Democrats, even the socialist/communist fringe, are much more inclined to support whoever moves the needle even slightly left. And guess what, over time the needle has gradually moved far enough left that what used to be the socialist/communist fringe are now considered mainstream.

The religious right should have FLOCKED to the polls for McCain and Romney, just for the opportunity to vote against Obama. They didn't. If you doubt that either of them would have been FAR better for social conservatives, ask yourself, can you picture a McCain or Romney white house in rainbow colors?

I know, libertarian me didn't vote for them either. But number one, I'm in Texas where it wouldn't have mattered, so my protest vote probably has more impact than adding one more vote to a landslide. And number two, they wouldn't have been FAR better than Obama on the issues that matter to me. I'm not even sure they'd be any better. Probably by pissing enough people off to put republicans back in control of the house and later the senate too, Obama did more good on the issues I care about than McCain or Romney would have. To get my vote, you have to convince me that 1) you can win if you get it, and 2) you will be better for my point of view than your opponent. McCain and Romney could have made those arguments to social conservatives, but not to libertarian me.

(08-11-2015 11:00 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I was blown away to hear that Ann Coulter is supporting Trump.

Why? Like Trump, she is nothing more than a muckraking media whore.

(08-11-2015 10:22 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 10:07 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  I don't get it. I thought Trump did a miserable job at the debate. What the heck is everybody else seeing that I am not?

Anger. Conservatives are angry people.

You're confusing Conservatives with Progressives.

Trump is unfiltered. He's not using talking points. He's not trying to please everyone. He's saying what he thinks (at least he appears that he is). He's not sugar-coating anything like money's influence in politics. And--he's got more name recognition and he's getting more press than anyone else.

(08-11-2015 08:40 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 08:27 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The right has no unification because they have nothing to unify around. They're all over the place. They have no message other than repeal Obamacare, reverse Roe v. Wade, reverse gay marriage, nothing really positive in any of that. If the economic message is growth, then explain how their ideas cause growth and why that is good for everybody.

They need something like Newt's contract. And here's something to remember about the contract. It wasn't just a bunch of ideas thrown together. It was a bunch of ideas that had been polled and tested to make sure they would play well with the electorate. And it was put to the party as here's a message we can win with, so don't get off message. When some interviewer tries to get you off message, take it back to the message.

Of course, any ideas you present have to be within that parameters of what various factions of the right consider acceptable. For example, I would be okay with a health care bill that increases the number of residency programs and increases funding and decreases regulations for clinical trials, but would the hardcore budget hawks go for that? One tax idea the Democrats have posited that I think is reasonable is paying social security on all income, but how many people do you alienate with that?

With Republicans you are trying to herd cats.

The Democrats just have a much more stable coalition. For example, the Democrat party can pretty much take for granted the black vote and can pretty much take for granted they will get the votes of people who vote on labor issues. In general elections they don't have to really do a whole lot to tell those groups they give a crap.

The media is all composed of Democrats and they don't understand Republicans and try to paint them as all alike. They aren't. Social conservatives aren't like libertarians. Establishment Republicans aren't like libertarians and some are moderate and some are conservative. Tea Partiers are concerned about fiscal issues and aren't nearly as concerned about issues that bother social conservatives. Neoconservatives aren't really like any of them.

(08-11-2015 12:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  The media is all composed of Democrats and they don't understand Republicans and try to paint them as all alike. They aren't. Social conservatives aren't like libertarians. Establishment Republicans aren't like libertarians and some are moderate and some are conservative. Tea Partiers are concerned about fiscal issues and aren't nearly as concerned about issues that bother social conservatives. Neoconservatives aren't really like any of them.

(08-11-2015 12:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 10:22 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 10:07 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  I don't get it. I thought Trump did a miserable job at the debate. What the heck is everybody else seeing that I am not?

Anger. Conservatives are angry people.

You're confusing Conservatives with Progressives.

Trump is unfiltered. He's not using talking points. He's not trying to please everyone. He's saying what he thinks (at least he appears that he is). He's not sugar-coating anything like money's influence in politics. And--he's got more name recognition and he's getting more press than anyone else.

Have you ever seen this man smile?