Who cares, we will eventually hit a saturation point in this sport as the population increases and more people shy away from flagship schools.

(08-02-2015 03:10 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Looking back at the MWC from its founding until losing BYU, UTAH and TCU a few years back has me thinking: they got robbed of a BCS auto bid after 2007 season by the BcS committe. That doesn't bode well for the AAC or MWC rising up probably. Why didn't they get in? BYU, Utah and TCU were top 25 teams pretty much every year during the time, all 3 always bowling and usually beating 2 or 3 BCS schools a year, New Mexico was a bowl eligible team from 2001 to 2007. (no bowl invites in 01 and 05 despite winning records) with 5 bowl games and wins at a ranked Mizzou and Texas tech, Baylor and Arizona twice. Colorado St was still going strong as the Sonny Lubick era was coming to an end. They routinely beat BCS schools and went bowling. Air Force did the same, and the worst of the 9 team MWC (imo) Wyoming, had wins vs SEC schools Tennessee and Ole Miss and UCLA during this time period. When looking back at their schedules and records, it surprises me that the MWC wasn't in the BCS. Why not? What does it take for a non P5 conference to get the call up today? Is it even possible? If so, how much better does the prospective league have to be then the old MWC? Cheers!

For years, BYU leadership was of the opinion that a conference could be elevated. This is when both Hawaii and San Diego St. were filling their large stadiums, BYU was selling out every time, and Air Force was also getting over 50K in attendance. The saying was "the WAC gets better every year."

We now see the big error behind this type of thinking (likely encouraged by UU grads on the BYU Board of Trustees that didn't want BYU moving up without the UU). It is simply too hard. A "best of the rest" where the bottom teams are cut out is about as close as you can get right now. Grab the best of the AAC, best of the MWC, combine with Northern Illinois and perhaps Marshall and ULL. You will have a pretty good conference that should always get the open slot, but it still doesn't seem to have the star power to permanently change things. Look at the Big East - success, rankings, big bowl wins, and people still wanted them kicked out of the BCS.

BYU should have gone Independent in the late 80s or tried to form a more national "best of the rest" conference. We missed our window, and have been paying for it ever since. It should be crystal clear right now: if you want to move from G5 to the big time, you have to do it as a school, not as a conference.

(08-03-2015 06:18 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Who cares, we will eventually hit a saturation point in this sport as the population increases and more people shy away from flagship schools.

hate to say it but I don't EVER see that happening. Iowa is the life blood of the state of Iowa, not Northern Iowa. Oklahoma is the life blood of the state of Oklahoma, lets even take a non p5 school like New Mexico.--the state would barely exist without the university of NM with their giant healthcare system and medical school. These flagships are the biggest employers in their states. No Northern Iowa's or Western New Mexico's are going to take their places or even get a bigger slice of the pie...the states aren't set up to even conceive this happening. No one will ever "shy away from flagship schools"... Just telling truths. Cheers!

(08-03-2015 06:18 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Who cares, we will eventually hit a saturation point in this sport as the population increases and more people shy away from flagship schools.

Wishful thinking. The networks are saying the value difference has increased.

I think the only hope is, ironically, basketball. CUSA got attention when it was first formed because it had a lot of strong basketball programs-Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Marquette, DePaul, Houston. The Big East had solid football programs, but basketball was what made it a power conference. The ACC really was on a par with the WAC in football in the 70s and early 80s. But it was perhaps the premier basketball conference and that pulled up football over time (along with FSU).

So basketball could generate the attention to help get national interest in football-as long as the football was good enough. If the MWC or AAC could get to the level where it was regularly comparable to the top 3 basketball conferences while it developed a TCU/Utah/Boise, that could raise the conference enough to eventually join the P5.

[quote='owl at the moon' pid='12245071' dateline='1438567841']


When the BCS restructured midway through its ignominious span, a couple things changed (at the behest of congressional pressure). (1) a non AQ conference team could earn an autobid by ranking top 12 (not just top 6) in the BCS rankings, and (2) objective criteria were laid out for non-AQ conferences to reach AQ status. Criteria were also set up to maintain that status.
[quote]

It would be nice if you would share with us what those criteria were, and by what process they were adopted by the BCS.

[quote='ken d' pid='12246052' dateline='1438619443']
[quote='owl at the moon' pid='12245071' dateline='1438567841']


When the BCS restructured midway through its ignominious span, a couple things changed (at the behest of congressional pressure). (1) a non AQ conference team could earn an autobid by ranking top 12 (not just top 6) in the BCS rankings, and (2) objective criteria were laid out for non-AQ conferences to reach AQ status. Criteria were also set up to maintain that status.
[quote]

It would be nice if you would share with us what those criteria were, and by what process they were adopted by the BCS.
[/quote]

http://www.jeremyhubble.com/bcs.shtml

You can see the MWC did pretty well with the top ranked team and not badly in the number of ranked teams, but did poorly in the average ranking in the computer polls.

(08-02-2015 12:27 PM)GreenWave16 Wrote:  The AAC right now is the closest thing to a P5 conference ever but I still do not think it will be enough. If one team goes to the access bowl several times in a row they will just get called up to one of the other conferences. The difference between an AAC school and Boise is at least we all bring markets so that is why we get called up and not Boise or Marshall or whoever.

The other major difference is that the AAC doesn't have just one dominant team - like Boise and the MWC.

Cincinnati, UCF, ECU, Houston, Memphis, and Navy will all compete for the AAC championship and access bowl bid. Even the others have potential; UConn has played in big bowl games and USF was ranked #2 in the country for a stretch several years ago - SMU was a power pre-death penalty.

IMO, getting Army and Air Force into the conference - even if football only - could be the key to relevancy. The academies deliver TV ratings and put butts in seats. And, a conference that involves all three academies will always have plenty of political power. Not to mention that the AMERICAN conference with all three military academies in a coast-to-coast conference has some mighty synergies.

(08-02-2015 11:46 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  The MWC's problem was their bottom 3-4 (not always the same 3-4) were bottom 10 in FBS during those years. TCU, BYU, Utah and Air Force were pretty consistent, but the others were usually very bad during that time frame.

That wasn't a problem. The only reason they were even in the conversation for moving up to BCS-level was because they had 3 teams consistently at the top.

If the old MWC was as balanced as the current American is, none of those schools would have ever finished Top 12 or gotten into a major bowl.

This was THE problem for the MWC. At the time, national media always made mention of the MWC dregs as the main counter-point to the MWC's inclusion in the BCS autobid system.

IMO, Commissioner Thompson should have pushed for Boise St., Fresno St., and Houston to grow the conference to 12 and to have a CCG. This would have added another perennial top-25 team to the conference, which would have placed the MWC as one of the TOP conferences for the highest ranked teams and top-25 teams criteria and would have bolstered the middle of the conference for the average ranking criteria.

Tier 1: TCU, BYU, Utah, Boise St.
Tier 2: Air Force, Fresno, Houston, SDSU, CSU
Tier 3: Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV

The MWC would have been a de facto BCS conference.

But, it would have imploded anyway when TCU and Utah were plucked away. But, the MWC may have been in a better situation to pick-up perhaps SMU and Memphis instead of back-filling with SJSU, Hawaii, USU, and Nevada.

(08-03-2015 11:49 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 11:46 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  The MWC's problem was their bottom 3-4 (not always the same 3-4) were bottom 10 in FBS during those years. TCU, BYU, Utah and Air Force were pretty consistent, but the others were usually very bad during that time frame.

That wasn't a problem. The only reason they were even in the conversation for moving up to BCS-level was because they had 3 teams consistently at the top.

If the old MWC was as balanced as the current American is, none of those schools would have ever finished Top 12 or gotten into a major bowl.

This was THE problem for the MWC. At the time, national media always made mention of the MWC dregs as the main counter-point to the MWC's inclusion in the BCS autobid system.

IMO, Commissioner Thompson should have pushed for Boise St., Fresno St., and Houston to grow the conference to 12 and to have a CCG. This would have added another perennial top-25 team to the conference, which would have placed the MWC as one of the TOP conferences for the highest ranked teams and top-25 teams criteria and would have bolstered the middle of the conference for the average ranking criteria.

Tier 1: TCU, BYU, Utah, Boise St.
Tier 2: Air Force, Fresno, Houston, SDSU, CSU
Tier 3: Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV

The MWC would have been a de facto BCS conference.

But, it would have imploded anyway when TCU and Utah were plucked away. But, the MWC may have been in a better situation to pick-up perhaps SMU and Memphis instead of back-filling with SJSU, Hawaii, USU, and Nevada.

looking back, that was a good little conference no one east of ft worth knew about...kind of shocking when you analyze their records and wins vs the "BCS" schools that they weren't part of it. Even the worst of the MWC in football Wyoming and New Mexico had sustained levels of success and it wasn't uncommon at all for them to beat power schools...i think the old MWC will be looked at as an example of a conference that got the shaft, it will be interesting to see if it can ever be duplicated going forward, or if its impossible now with the $ divide. Interesting to see... Cheers!

Boise State, UNR, Hawaii, Fresno State, Utah State, Air Force and Colorado State have made a name for themselves in recent years. San Diego State is coming along. San Jose State needs a couple more pieces to be winners.

Hawaii is really coming along nicely. If the MWC wants more? They should target more power football schools like North Dakota State, Houston, Eastern Washington, BYU, and then go out to get UTEP to help Houston as a bridge to keep them from being on an island.

Southwest:
San Diego State
Hawaii
Fresno State
San Jose State

Northwest:
Boise State
UNR
Utah State
Eastern Washington

Southeast:
New Mexico
UTEP
Houston
UNLV

Northeast:
Air Force
Colorado State
Wyoming
North Dakota State

16 for football, and 15 for basketball.

(08-06-2015 02:48 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State, UNR, Hawaii, Fresno State, Utah State, Air Force and Colorado State have made a name for themselves in recent years. San Diego State is coming along. San Jose State needs a couple more pieces to be winners.

Hawaii is really coming along nicely. If the MWC wants more? They should target more power football schools like North Dakota State, Houston, Eastern Washington, BYU, and then go out to get UTEP to help Houston as a bridge to keep them from being on an island.

Southwest:
San Diego State
Hawaii
Fresno State
San Jose State

Northwest:
Boise State
UNR
Utah State
Eastern Washington

Southeast:
New Mexico
UTEP
Houston
UNLV

Northeast:
Air Force
Colorado State
Wyoming
North Dakota State

16 for football, and 15 for basketball.

NDSU and Eastern Washington will stay where they are.

(08-06-2015 02:48 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State, UNR, Hawaii, Fresno State, Utah State, Air Force and Colorado State have made a name for themselves in recent years. San Diego State is coming along. San Jose State needs a couple more pieces to be winners.

Hawaii is really coming along nicely. If the MWC wants more? They should target more power football schools like North Dakota State, Houston, Eastern Washington, BYU, and then go out to get UTEP to help Houston as a bridge to keep them from being on an island.

Southwest:
San Diego State
Hawaii
Fresno State
San Jose State

Northwest:
Boise State
UNR
Utah State
Eastern Washington

Southeast:
New Mexico
UTEP
Houston
UNLV

Northeast:
Air Force
Colorado State
Wyoming
North Dakota State

16 for football, and 15 for basketball.

Southeast and Northeast are bizarro division names considering the locations of the schools involved.

And I highly doubt Houston wants any part of that shiteshow. Try again...