(08-02-2015 08:44 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  According to the Equity in Athletics database ECU generates just under $10,000,000 in revenue from football. UNC generates over $32,000,000. I don't have actual attendance numbers but I'm guessing they are similar. So UNC generates 3 times the revenue from similar attendance.

I don't know how they report these numbers but I believe part of the difference is UNC is able to charge for premium seating and services (skyboxes, etc.).

It's the fact they get more from the ACC because of bowlgames and playoff games. It's not a balanced way of looking at it.

(08-02-2015 01:15 AM)gassman Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 12:56 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 12:51 AM)gassman Wrote:  Not for long. When the sanctions come in that ship wil sail. With those serious sanctions and without organized cheating to sustain them they will no longer be able to sustain their previous "success".

Sadly I'll have to add this here:

You really think they are getting off??

No, its directed to the second part of that, the assumption that the only thing that separated UNC from ECU was that UNC had more systematic and organized academic cheating than ECU, so remove the systematic and organized cheating, and they fall down to the same level as ECU.

They get smacked, they have a few down years, they reorganize their academic "support" so it is on the right side of whatever arbitrary line the NCAA sets, they recover. That's how it works.

And the notion that they wouldn't be able to stand stand ECU having higher FB attendance then UNC, so they would be forced to go academic slumming in the SEC is also not how it works. To put it simply, they could stand it just fine. As ken d said:

(08-02-2015 08:10 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 02:12 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  Answer the question. If ECU started to have higher attendance numbers than UNC would the Tar Heels stay in the ACC?

That's an easy one. Of course they would. ECU's attendance has no more influence over what UNC does than South Carolina's does.

ECU will not force UNC to leave the ACC. Who cares. ECU is enlarging their stadium because they believe in ECU. And why should they not?

ECU has a P5 level program (support, facilities, population and potential) waiting for an opportunity. If it was a separate state the population in Eastern North Carolina is equal or larger than 19 other states. In those 19 states there are 10 schools in P5 programs. Those 10 programs are in the SEC, B10, B12, & P12.

ECU in the SEC would do to the North Carolina ACC schools what Texas AM did to Texas (take the best recruits). ECU in the B12 would put ECU on equal footing with the ACC schools in the state.

(08-02-2015 08:28 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 08:11 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  This is very naïve/kooky reasoning. No, the expansion of the non-P5 school's stadium is not going to drive North Carolina into another league. Very weird theory.

agree

You both have overly selective judgments as to how "arrogance" influences the decisions who have such perceived arrogance.

A 60k ECU likely does not stay in the G5, especially if ECU has the highest attendance average. See the recent Barry Trammel article advocating ECU to the Big 12 as evidence of such changing sentiments. In a P5 conference ECU could be the dominant football program in North Carolina quite quickly.

You believe this would be acceptable to UNC? Really?

(08-02-2015 10:37 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 08:28 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 08:11 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  This is very naïve/kooky reasoning. No, the expansion of the non-P5 school's stadium is not going to drive North Carolina into another league. Very weird theory.

agree

You both have overly selective judgments as to how "arrogance" influences the decisions who have such perceived arrogance.

A 60k ECU likely does not stay in the G5, especially if ECU has the highest attendance average. See the recent Barry Trammel article advocating ECU to the Big 12 as evidence of such changing sentiments. In a P5 conference ECU could be the dominant football program in North Carolina quite quickly.

You believe this would be acceptable to UNC? Really?

But who is going to take them?

The ACC is set for NC schools.

B1G? nope.

B12? Not unless so many of its current teams leave its no longer a power league (ie it gets Big East-ed)

SEC? Nope. Their FB fan base is fine but the Presidents who make the decision don't base it purely on FB stadium size.

(08-02-2015 06:41 AM)krup Wrote:  1. ESPN has a very advantageous contract with the ACC
2. ACC basketball is important content to ESPN
3. If UNC were to leave, other ACC schools would start looking for new homes and the conference would scatter
4. With the SEC network, ESPN has a lot of interest in what the SEC does.

Given the above, how is ESPN ever going to let UNC be "forced" to the SEC?

It seems more likely that ESPN would try and orchestrate something like NC State (or, I guess in some scenarios, ECU) to the SEC, to gain the SEC network cable money from the households in the state of NC without hurting the ACC too much.

You make two assumptions to substantiate your reasoning, neither of which is likely to be true.

1. If UNC is "forced" to the SEC, they likely do not go alone.

2. ESPN could preserve all of their ACC properties, even more than half of the ACC goes to the SEC, and ESPN and all schools would earn more money. It just takes a little imagination. The rest of the ACC schools could have very good deals with ESPN, permanent SEC school matchups and other games with like minded institutions under the ESPN umbrella.

If UNC goes to the SEC, the college conference map gets rewritten.

1. This is a weird thread.

2. UNC does not care how many fans show up in Greenville every Saturday.

3. If UNC were to call the SEC or B1G today, either league would accept them with open arms. So why exactly would they want to leave the ACC because of what ECU does when they can leave whenever they want and haven't?

4. ECU does not need a name change. We need to reach a Boise-like level of success and get football and basketball!!!! revenue up. Louisville has already laid the blueprint down.

(08-02-2015 10:42 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 10:37 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 08:28 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 08:11 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  This is very naïve/kooky reasoning. No, the expansion of the non-P5 school's stadium is not going to drive North Carolina into another league. Very weird theory.

agree

You both have overly selective judgments as to how "arrogance" influences the decisions who have such perceived arrogance.

A 60k ECU likely does not stay in the G5, especially if ECU has the highest attendance average. See the recent Barry Trammel article advocating ECU to the Big 12 as evidence of such changing sentiments. In a P5 conference ECU could be the dominant football program in North Carolina quite quickly.

You believe this would be acceptable to UNC? Really?

But who is going to take them?

The ACC is set for NC schools.

B1G? nope.

B12? Not unless so many of its current teams leave its no longer a power league (ie it gets Big East-ed)

SEC? Nope. Their FB fan base is fine but the Presidents who make the decision don't base it purely on FB stadium size.

Good points. The possible answer is the Big 12 after only loosing 2 (OU and KU) and the conference backfilling trying to save its P5 status by adding at least 4 teams.

If UCF gets and invite with its directional school name, and ECU is averaging more butts in seats than any NC school, then they get an invite with Cinn to make WV more geographically appealable.

It could happen. That fact means something even if it never does.

Even if it does not happen any time soon, good things will one day happen to ECU with such support, and such will be somewhat detrimental to the current ACC NC 4.

(08-02-2015 10:50 AM)Chappy Wrote:  1. This is a weird thread.

2. UNC does not care how many fans show up in Greenville every Saturday.

3. If UNC were to call the SEC or B1G today, either league would accept them with open arms. So why exactly would they want to leave the ACC because of what ECU does when they can leave whenever they want and haven't?

4. ECU does not need a name change. We need to reach a Boise-like level of success and get football and basketball!!!! revenue up. Louisville has already laid the blueprint down.

Your opinion. I respect it, but I disagree. Being the alpha football program is extremely important to the schools that are the alpha.

You think VT, even after finally being in the ACC after decades of desiring, such would stay in the ACC if Old Dominion started having more butts in seats? I say no. It would not be acceptable.

(08-02-2015 11:04 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 10:50 AM)Chappy Wrote:  1. This is a weird thread.

2. UNC does not care how many fans show up in Greenville every Saturday.

3. If UNC were to call the SEC or B1G today, either league would accept them with open arms. So why exactly would they want to leave the ACC because of what ECU does when they can leave whenever they want and haven't?

4. ECU does not need a name change. We need to reach a Boise-like level of success and get football and basketball!!!! revenue up. Louisville has already laid the blueprint down.

Your opinion. I respect it, but I disagree. Being the alpha football program is extremely important to the schools that are the alpha.

You think VT, even after finally being in the ACC after decades of desiring, such would stay in the ACC if Old Dominion started having more butts in seats? I say no. It would not be acceptable.

I don't think its even relevant...OD can get 100,000 fans to games. VT will do what they're going to do regardless.

(08-02-2015 08:44 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  According to the Equity in Athletics database ECU generates just under $10,000,000 in revenue from football. UNC generates over $32,000,000. I don't have actual attendance numbers but I'm guessing they are similar. So UNC generates 3 times the revenue from similar attendance.

I don't know how they report these numbers but I believe part of the difference is UNC is able to charge for premium seating and services (skyboxes, etc.).

Premium seating is almost always the huge difference maker and other than a section of club seats what does ECU have interns of premium seating?

(08-02-2015 11:58 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 11:04 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 10:50 AM)Chappy Wrote:  1. This is a weird thread.

2. UNC does not care how many fans show up in Greenville every Saturday.

3. If UNC were to call the SEC or B1G today, either league would accept them with open arms. So why exactly would they want to leave the ACC because of what ECU does when they can leave whenever they want and haven't?

4. ECU does not need a name change. We need to reach a Boise-like level of success and get football and basketball!!!! revenue up. Louisville has already laid the blueprint down.

Your opinion. I respect it, but I disagree. Being the alpha football program is extremely important to the schools that are the alpha.

You think VT, even after finally being in the ACC after decades of desiring, such would stay in the ACC if Old Dominion started having more butts in seats? I say no. It would not be acceptable.

I don't think its even relevant...OD can get 100,000 fans to games. VT will do what they're going to do regardless.

I understand your point of view. My post suggests state alpha schools look at such differently, and no poster who is a fan of a state alpha school has posted a contradictory opinion.

A Tar Heel may doubt UNC will ever loose its position of having the highest average attendance, citing historical figures and downplaying the Pirates potential, but none have said IF ECU > UNC stadium attendance happens UNC would stand for such. Especially if SEC members were making $10 to 20 million more per year through the SECN, and attendance predictions have UNC needed to expand their stadium if they join the SEC, just as every other school who has joined has needed to expand.

(08-02-2015 10:50 AM)Chappy Wrote:  1. This is a weird thread.

2. UNC does not care how many fans show up in Greenville every Saturday.

3. If UNC were to call the SEC or B1G today, either league would accept them with open arms. So why exactly would they want to leave the ACC because of what ECU does when they can leave whenever they want and haven't?

4. ECU does not need a name change. We need to reach a Boise-like level of success and get football and basketball!!!! revenue up. Louisville has already laid the blueprint down.

I agree with this.

(08-02-2015 10:57 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 10:42 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 10:37 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 08:28 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 08:11 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  This is very naïve/kooky reasoning. No, the expansion of the non-P5 school's stadium is not going to drive North Carolina into another league. Very weird theory.

agree

You both have overly selective judgments as to how "arrogance" influences the decisions who have such perceived arrogance.

A 60k ECU likely does not stay in the G5, especially if ECU has the highest attendance average. See the recent Barry Trammel article advocating ECU to the Big 12 as evidence of such changing sentiments. In a P5 conference ECU could be the dominant football program in North Carolina quite quickly.

You believe this would be acceptable to UNC? Really?

But who is going to take them?

The ACC is set for NC schools.

B1G? nope.

B12? Not unless so many of its current teams leave its no longer a power league (ie it gets Big East-ed)

SEC? Nope. Their FB fan base is fine but the Presidents who make the decision don't base it purely on FB stadium size.

Good points. The possible answer is the Big 12 after only loosing 2 (OU and KU) and the conference backfilling trying to save its P5 status by adding at least 4 teams.

If UCF gets and invite with its directional school name, and ECU is averaging more butts in seats than any NC school, then they get an invite with Cinn to make WV more geographically appealable.

It could happen. That fact means something even if it never does.

Even if it does not happen any time soon, good things will one day happen to ECU with such support, and such will be somewhat detrimental to the current ACC NC 4.

Maybe, but I'm just not seeing it. ECU was lucky just to get into the American. I don't think they are very high on anyone's list. I like them a lot but I don't see them as a major threat to any other P5 program - including those located in the state of North Carolina.

I hope that doesn't offend anyone. That is just my honest opinion.

ECU's best hope for becoming a "power program" is not hitting the conference realignment lottery. They are way too far down everyone's list for that to be a likely scenario. They're still talking about "butts in seats" whenever every conference move over the past 10 years has related to television appeal. Rutgers and Maryland just got into the Big Ten based almost exclusively on the size of their television markets. Bragging about your home attendance at this point is a little bit like bragging about your awesome new CD player.

That does not mean that all hope is lost for ECU, because it isn't. What the Pirates need is for the entire American to rise up to be the clear No. 6 conference and by dominating that league. If that happens, they will get plenty of opportunities to showcase their program. However, I cannot imagine ever being in the ACC or SEC. They are just too far down the list for either league.

I suppose there is an outside shot that if the Big 12 perhaps loses a few teams and then expands to 16 teams, they would have a shot then. However, that would not exactly qualify as a major victory. Still, that is probably their most likely scenario for getting into the Big 12.

...at least in my view.

(08-02-2015 12:19 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 08:44 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  According to the Equity in Athletics database ECU generates just under $10,000,000 in revenue from football. UNC generates over $32,000,000. I don't have actual attendance numbers but I'm guessing they are similar. So UNC generates 3 times the revenue from similar attendance.

I don't know how they report these numbers but I believe part of the difference is UNC is able to charge for premium seating and services (skyboxes, etc.).

Premium seating is almost always the huge difference maker and other than a section of club seats what does ECU have interns of premium seating?

That's part of the expansion mentioned in the OP. New suites, loge boxes, etc. along with press box.

ECU's biggest problem in realignment has been the TV market which is ranked 99th. However in 10-15 years, when a la carte television takes the place of cable boxes, teams will be chosen for the size of their fanbase and subscriber numbers.

I think that is when having a very large fanbase like ECU will propel them forward.

(08-02-2015 11:04 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 10:50 AM)Chappy Wrote:  1. This is a weird thread.

2. UNC does not care how many fans show up in Greenville every Saturday.

3. If UNC were to call the SEC or B1G today, either league would accept them with open arms. So why exactly would they want to leave the ACC because of what ECU does when they can leave whenever they want and haven't?

4. ECU does not need a name change. We need to reach a Boise-like level of success and get football and basketball!!!! revenue up. Louisville has already laid the blueprint down.

Your opinion. I respect it, but I disagree. Being the alpha football program is extremely important to the schools that are the alpha.

You think VT, even after finally being in the ACC after decades of desiring, such would stay in the ACC if Old Dominion started having more butts in seats? I say no. It would not be acceptable.

Big difference is that at UNC, basketball is the premier sport not football, whereas VT is a football school.

UNC really doesn't care much about football. They are smart and know the realities of college athletics, so for the past 25 years starting with FSU they have held their nose and allowed their beloved Tobacco Road-oriented ACC to be besmirched by the presence of football schools. But that doesn't mean they really care much about football.

So ECU gaining football attendance doesn't threaten UNC's identity, which is wrapped up in basketball.

Now if ECU started drawing more fans for basketball games than UNC and started stealing their basketball thunder, that might motivate UNC to action.

LOL.

Haven't read much of the thread, but do have to laugh at the UGa fan original poster actually typing this assertion.

If I was you, UGa fan, I wouldn't be worrying about NC dynamics and start concentrating on your own state. For you see, there are now a few more FBS schools located in your state of Georgia. A school in your biggest city and a school in the country. Words of advice, don't worry about the city school. The country folk have big mouths and are way more determined (politics). If Ga Southern has the correct leadership, I look forward to writing the same post toward you in about 10-15 years. LOL. Or does UGa have the same political influence as Alabama (see UAB)? Don't think so, but if true, the influence of Northerners will change that soon. You've been warned. Can't wait till the Ga State govt makes UGa play in Statesboro. Will be great entertainment.

NC State alum, wife a ECU alum. Think State should play ECU every year. You have zero clue of NC.

(08-02-2015 02:45 PM)wrcwolf Wrote:  LOL.

Haven't read much of the thread, but do have to laugh at the UGa fan original poster actually typing this assertion.

If I was you, UGa fan, I wouldn't be worrying about NC dynamics and start concentrating on your own state. For you see, there are now a few more FBS schools located in your state of Georgia. A school in your biggest city and a school in the country. Words of advice, don't worry about the city school. The country folk have big mouths and are way more determined (politics). If Ga Southern has the correct leadership, I look forward to writing the same post toward you in about 10-15 years. LOL. Or does UGa have the same political influence as Alabama (see UAB)? Don't think so, but if true, the influence of Northerners will change that soon. You've been warned. Can't wait till the Ga State govt makes UGa play in Statesboro. Will be great entertainment.

If you seriously think the government of Georgia will ever force UGA to play Georgia Southern, you are broadcasting from Mars or something. That is just looney-tunes.

(08-02-2015 02:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 02:45 PM)wrcwolf Wrote:  LOL.

Haven't read much of the thread, but do have to laugh at the UGa fan original poster actually typing this assertion.

If I was you, UGa fan, I wouldn't be worrying about NC dynamics and start concentrating on your own state. For you see, there are now a few more FBS schools located in your state of Georgia. A school in your biggest city and a school in the country. Words of advice, don't worry about the city school. The country folk have big mouths and are way more determined (politics). If Ga Southern has the correct leadership, I look forward to writing the same post toward you in about 10-15 years. LOL. Or does UGa have the same political influence as Alabama (see UAB)? Don't think so, but if true, the influence of Northerners will change that soon. You've been warned. Can't wait till the Ga State govt makes UGa play in Statesboro. Will be great entertainment.

If you seriously think the government of Georgia will ever force UGA to play Georgia Southern, you are broadcasting from Mars or something. That is just looney-tunes.

I would imagine people in NC thought the same of State and UNC having to play in Greenville, but it most certainly happened. But as I mentioned, maybe UGa has the State govt controlled, as Bama does. Influx of Northerners can't help that control, however. I understand Alabama and your state, Louisiana, haven't really experienced that Northern influx yet. Guess the Northerners haven't yet reached the the bottom rung of the South yet.