(07-28-2015 01:02 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:52 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 10:46 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  My question is if the Big 12 breaks up who takes Iowa St? If the Big 10 doesn't take them they are on an island for anyone else but I have not seen any quasi-real source even talking about where they would go.

The MAC takes them in a heartbeat, but most plausible in a "big 12is ripped to shreds" scenario is they are part of the "new Big 12" that pulls the best schools they can from the AAC and MWC.

(07-28-2015 12:19 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I could see Texas, texas tech and houston join the pac 12 with 1 more school. Yet, i really can't see houston ever in the big 10. IF they want an odd ball fit, maybe go for San Diego State.

I don't see the Big Ten taking a school that is number two in its home city to an SEC school.

I don't see any MW schools leaving for a new Big 12. ISU doesn't have that kind of pull to have a new big 12 conference.
Boise State already knows what the financials are for that type of conference and that is why the stayed in the MW instead of the AAC.
With the G-5 auto-bid in place, there is no reason for BSU to make a move to another conference unless they are a power conferences with 10x's the more money to make it worthwhile.

Boise St did not' move because the Big East fell apart. They would jump at the chance to join a Big 12 that included ISU, KSU, WVU, OSU, TT, Baylor, and TCU along with BYU IMO.

The SOS of that conference compared to the MW is not even close.

if there were that many teams left...sure. But there will only be ISU and TCU/Baylor left.

(07-28-2015 02:40 PM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:35 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Let's say Texas, OU, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State and name any other Big XII school you wish leave the league.

That leaves four of: Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, West Virginia in the Big XII.

Who would join that conference?

Off the top of my head, I'd say New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, Cincinnati, everyone in CUSA, everyone in Sun Belt, and everyone in the MAC would try to find a way in.

If the Big 12 implodes I think the best possible outcome would be:

Oklahoma and Kansas to the Big 10

WVU to the ACC with Texas going independent for football getting a 4 game deal with the ACC like Notre Dame. (ACC pulls up UConn for it's 16th full member)

Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas St and Iowa St to the PAC

Oklahoma St and TCU to the SEC

The PAC won't take Baylor but would maybe take TCU. The SEC I think would prefer Baylor over TCU, Baylor is a MUCH better fit for the SEC than TCU.

What is the difference between the 2?

Houston to the B1G is by far and away NOT the most insane thing I've ever heard. I actually think it could happen.

(07-28-2015 10:08 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 09:55 AM)kellernr Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 09:40 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 08:41 AM)Okielite Wrote:  Oh buy. Now we are talking Houston to the B1G? Good lord this board is off the wall.

Only Texas school I could see them wanting aside from UT is Rice. Rice is an easy sell to university presidents. Rice also has enough money to buy whatever facilities or coaches they would need if they were to move. Endowment over 5 million. Plus they already have a big stadium and are located in a great spot.

But they are not a good fit with a conference that is almost entirely made up of state flagship and land grant schools.

And while Rice might tap into an endowment for sports facilities .... they can't just rely on the endowment for coaches salaries, since for one thing that eating your seed corn, and for another thing, the kind of people who contributed to the Rice endowment are not likely to be people who put expensive college sports first and foremost.

The only two Texas schools that the Big Ten conference would want are Texas and Texas A&M, and Texas A&M is (1) already building up equity in the SEC Network and (2) located in the most "Dixie" part of Texas, making the SEC West its most natural fit, so that realignment is already water under the bridge.

(07-28-2015 08:52 AM)kellernr Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 01:58 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  It wouldn't Surprise Me in the least that at the first hint of Big 12 collapse with OU and Kansas leaving for B!G, The ACC would send out invites to Texas, Baylor, TCU, WVU. If Texas said No or went elsewhere, the ACC would probably invite WVU and grab Cincinnati to cut off Big 12 expansion replacement. that would give the ACC 16 plus Notre Dame and a very strong conference in Football and Basketball.

UConn will be picked over Cincy for the ACC

That's another football schools vs basketball schools fight like the one that UConn lost out to Louisville. I reckon Tobacco Road would go for UConn, UL, Pitt, BC, VTech, Clemson and FSU would go for UC. I don't have any inkling which way UVA or GTech would be inclined to go.

I wouldn't consider UC a "football school". They had 2 good seasons in 08 & 09 but haven't won an outright conference title since then. (co-championships are garbage). They go to a bowl game almost every year but realistically how hard is it to get to 5 or 6 wins to become bowl eligible.

Not so, especially if it lead to a BCS Bowl. Ville and UCF won BCS bowls via Co-Champ. Also regarding the Football school thing....that is also a product of the territory Ohio being a football state. UC and UConn are both excellent candidates.

Inaccurate, UCF went undefeated in their first year in the AAC (8-0) by beating UL on the road. UCF was the outright champion (not co-champions) when they went to the Fiesta Bowl and mauled Big 12 champion Baylor.

(07-28-2015 04:49 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Houston to the B1G is by far and away NOT the most insane thing I've ever heard. I actually think it could happen.

Based off what exactly?

What value does Houston bring? Do you really think adding Houston would get BTN full price in Texas? How about just Houston?

You do understand that Houston is not AAU and won't be anytime soon correct? The only B1G member who is not a current AAU member is Nebraska and they were AAU when the last round of realignment went on.

Realistically here are the only teams who have a shot in the region.
ISU- Problem is that it's a duplicate market but they are AAU.
KU- AAU State Flagship, this is exactly what they look for.
OU- State flagship with massive Football. Would probably let the non AAU status slide because of the football program and flagship status.
UT- All of the criteria
Rice- Might have a shot, athletics and small fan following are a drawback but academics are off the charts which B1G presidents love.
Tulane-Similar to Rice and in another good TV market and recruiting area. Longshot at best.

Beyond that I just don't see anybody who meets their requirements or is similar to their existing membership. Non AAU bible schools and ag schools are a certain NO IMO. Sorry KSU, OSU, TT, TCU, Baylor, Houston, etc...

(07-28-2015 04:21 PM)Okielite Wrote:  There you have it. Unfortunately neither fit the B1G criteria, neither are AAU, neither have a "nebraska" type football program. Aside from being located in a large state they simply don't fit. Simply being located in Texas is not enough IMO. I really only think there are 3 schools who do. UT, aTm, Rice. In that order. Beyond that nobody fits.

And Rice is less than 4,000 undergraduates, making it a very bad institutional fit. Northwestern, at about 8,400 undergrads, is probably too small to get into the modern Big Ten if it was too apply today.

And while the quality of Rice's research standing is beyond dispute, it doesn't offer the same opportunity for collaboration as a school like UTx or even KS, because of its smaller size.

(07-28-2015 04:35 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:40 PM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:35 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Let's say Texas, OU, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State and name any other Big XII school you wish leave the league.

That leaves four of: Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, West Virginia in the Big XII.

Who would join that conference?

Off the top of my head, I'd say New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, Cincinnati, everyone in CUSA, everyone in Sun Belt, and everyone in the MAC would try to find a way in.

If the Big 12 implodes I think the best possible outcome would be:

Oklahoma and Kansas to the Big 10

WVU to the ACC with Texas going independent for football getting a 4 game deal with the ACC like Notre Dame. (ACC pulls up UConn for it's 16th full member)

Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas St and Iowa St to the PAC

Oklahoma St and TCU to the SEC

The PAC won't take Baylor but would maybe take TCU. The SEC I think would prefer Baylor over TCU, Baylor is a MUCH better fit for the SEC than TCU.

What is the difference between the 2?

Religious requirements for students is my understanding.
TCU students are required to take 1 religion class. TCU students who are interested in religious studies can get a degree from the on campus bible school that operates under a different name but for all purposes is essentially a TCU degree. Students can take classes from both. Like I said before they share the same campus, all carry TCU ID cards, can use TCU facilities and by student tickets for TCU athletic events.

I don't know exactly what Baylor's situation is as far as religious requirements but there are some which are slightly more than TCU if I remember correctly, but not much. And I don't' think Baylor hides it's bible school on campus under a different name like TCU does. Neither are on the BYU level of weirdness IMO.

(07-28-2015 05:55 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 04:21 PM)Okielite Wrote:  There you have it. Unfortunately neither fit the B1G criteria, neither are AAU, neither have a "nebraska" type football program. Aside from being located in a large state they simply don't fit. Simply being located in Texas is not enough IMO. I really only think there are 3 schools who do. UT, aTm, Rice. In that order. Beyond that nobody fits.

And Rice is less than 4,000 undergraduates, making it a very bad institutional fit. Northwestern, at about 8,400 undergrads, is probably too small to get into the modern Big Ten if it was too apply today.

And while the quality of Rice's research standing is beyond dispute, it doesn't offer the same opportunity for collaboration as a school like UTx or even KS, because of its smaller size.

Good point. Rice is much like the University of Tulsa, very small. But they do have a big stadium.

(07-28-2015 05:58 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 04:35 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:40 PM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:35 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Let's say Texas, OU, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State and name any other Big XII school you wish leave the league.

That leaves four of: Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, West Virginia in the Big XII.

Who would join that conference?

Off the top of my head, I'd say New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, Cincinnati, everyone in CUSA, everyone in Sun Belt, and everyone in the MAC would try to find a way in.

If the Big 12 implodes I think the best possible outcome would be:

Oklahoma and Kansas to the Big 10

WVU to the ACC with Texas going independent for football getting a 4 game deal with the ACC like Notre Dame. (ACC pulls up UConn for it's 16th full member)

Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas St and Iowa St to the PAC

Oklahoma St and TCU to the SEC

The PAC won't take Baylor but would maybe take TCU. The SEC I think would prefer Baylor over TCU, Baylor is a MUCH better fit for the SEC than TCU.

What is the difference between the 2?

Religious requirements for students is my understanding.
TCU students are required to take 1 religion class. TCU students who are interested in religious studies can get a degree from the on campus bible school that operates under a different name but for all purposes is essentially a TCU degree. Students can take classes from both. Like I said before they share the same campus, all carry TCU ID cards, can use TCU facilities and by student tickets for TCU athletic events.

I don't know exactly what Baylor's situation is as far as religious requirements but there are some which are slightly more than TCU if I remember correctly, but not much. And I don't' think Baylor hides it's bible school on campus under a different name like TCU does. Neither are on the BYU level of weirdness IMO.

2 Religion Courses that are very milquetoast
2 Semesters of Chapel - A glorified HS assembly period that everyone sleeps through

Truett Seminary is located on campus.

(07-28-2015 04:35 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  What is the difference between the 2?

TCU: Historically related to, but not governed by, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), the University encourages personal growth and leadership in both academic and cocurricular activities.

Admission Requirements
TCU does not discriminate on the basis of personal status, individual characteristics, or group affiliation, including but not limited to classes protected under federal and state law.

Baylor:
Mission Statement

The mission of Baylor University is to educate men and women for worldwide leadership and service by integrating academic excellence and Christian commitment within a caring community.

Because Baylor is a strong Christian community, the admissions committee searches for applicants they believe will make a positive addition to the university.

---------------------

I don't think Baylor has any religious expectations for grad students (other than for its religious programs).

If Baylor has requirements for faculty to express their religious beliefs as part of the hiring process I imagine PAC (and perhaps others) would have huge concerns about that. I'm not sure what the Big Ten would think, but I doubt we'll have to cross that bridge.

My cousin's youngest will be a Baylor Bear next year, on academic scholarship!

(07-28-2015 02:35 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Let's say Texas, OU, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State and name any other Big XII school you wish leave the league.

That leaves four of: Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, West Virginia in the Big XII.

Who would join that conference?

Off the top of my head, I'd say New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, Cincinnati, everyone in CUSA, everyone in Sun Belt, and everyone in the MAC would try to find a way in.

If the Big 12 implodes I think the best possible outcome would be:

Oklahoma and Kansas to the Big 10

WVU to the ACC with Texas going independent for football getting a 4 game deal with the ACC like Notre Dame.

Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas St and Iowa St to the PAC

Oklahoma St and TCU to the SEC

PAC 12 will not take any Big 12 rejects. Their biggest prize is OU and Texas. Since neither those 2 will join, then no on the rest. Iowa State might get a lifeline to the Big 10, but nobody else are wanted by other conferences. I say Tech, Baylor, KState, Okie State, TCU to the MWC who is actually the best conference of the G5 who had teams that went to the access bowl more times. Those 5 joining the MWC could make them enough into a Power conference in football.

(07-28-2015 02:35 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  If the Big 12 implodes I think the best possible outcome would be:

Oklahoma and Kansas to the Big 10

WVU to the ACC with Texas going independent for football getting a 4 game deal with the ACC like Notre Dame.

Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas St and Iowa St to the PAC

Oklahoma St and TCU to the SEC

Notre Dame has a 5 game per year deal with the ACC.

(07-28-2015 03:01 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 01:04 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:04 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  Well strange as is sounds this guy published a opinion piece back in 2013 having Houston and SMU as possible future targets for the B1G and we all know opinions are like something else everyone has. Be that they are at the bottom of the list of serious candidates (because there are others listed below them but considered even minor in comparison to Houston and SMU) in his opinion, but the key point is, they are on his list and this is way back in 2013. Again it's just one man opinion and list in a ocean of them. He didn't find it outrageous as some have.


B1G Expanison Wish List

Without AAU status or a strong "Nebraska" type FB program I just don't see how that would be appealing. There are no schools even remotely close to those 2 in the conference right now.

Hell, we whupped Cornhusker arse in 1980 Cotton Bowl before 72,000 plus, they don't have anything on us..except a B1G membership....hahahahaha

35 year old smack. It doesn't get much weaker than that.

The thing with AAU status and B1G expansion candidates is that many of those schools, like Nebraska, are on the low end of the research totem. Judging by past B1G expansion, this might matter.

ARWU University
1 Harvard
2 Stanford
3 MIT
4 Cal-Berkeley
6 Princeton
7 Cal Tech
8 Columbia
9 U of Chicago
11 Yale
12 UCLA
13 Cornell
14 UCSD
15 U of Washington
16 Pennsylvania
17 Johns Hopkins
18 UCSF
22 Michigan
24 Toronto
24 Wisconsin
27 NYU
28 Northwestern
28 Illinois
30 Minnesota
31 Duke
32 Washington U
34 Colorado
36 North Carolina
39 Texas
41 UCSB
43 Brown
43 Maryland
47 UCI
51 USC
52 Rutgers
54 Vanderbilt
58 Penn State
58 UCD
60 Purdue
62 Carnegie Mellon
64 Ohio State
65 Pitt
67 McGill
72 Boston University
78 Florida
82 Rice
86 Arizona
88 Arizona St
90 Rochester
96 Texas A&M
99 Georgia Tech
101-150 Case Western
101-150 Emory
101-150 Indiana
101-150 Michigan State
101-150 Virginia
151-200 Iowa State
151-200 Iowa
201-300 SUNY- Stony Brook
201-300 SUNY-Buffalo
201-300 Kansas
201-300 Missouri
201-300 Oregon
301-400 Brandeis
301-400 Tulane

Where's dark horse Virginia Tech?

I'm sure those rankings haven't escaped the eyes if Big Ten presidents. Working in favor of a "football add" is that the previous 2 didn't have much to do with football.

(07-28-2015 06:18 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I say Tech, Baylor, KState, Okie State, TCU to the MWC who is actually the best conference of the G5 who had teams that went to the access bowl more times. Those 5 joining the MWC could make them enough into a Power conference in football.

Easier for those six (since the fact that it would be nice for WVU to get a rescue from the ACC doesn't make it any more likely that the ACC will offer it) to cherry pick. Take UC as a travel partner to WVU, Boise State and Utah State as travel partners, Houston to ... well, get back into Houston, then fill as desired from the balance of the MWC and AAC, anywhere from two to six more, on advice from prospective media partners which alignment would be most appealing.

DavidSt once said that ESPN is trying to get North Dakota State into a Power Conference. True story. Since then, I've utterly ignored anything he's said.

(07-28-2015 06:30 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The thing with ARWU status and B1G expansion candidates is that many of those schools, like Nebraska, are on the low end of the research totem. Judging by past B1G expansion, this might matter.

ARWU University
1 Harvard
2 Stanford
3 MIT
4 Cal-Berkeley
6 Princeton
7 Cal Tech
8 Columbia
9 U of Chicago
11 Yale
12 UCLA
13 Cornell
14 UCSD
15 U of Washington
16 Pennsylvania
17 Johns Hopkins
18 UCSF
22 Michigan
24 Toronto
24 Wisconsin
27 NYU
28 Northwestern
28 Illinois
30 Minnesota
31 Duke
32 Washington U
34 Colorado
36 North Carolina
39 Texas
41 UCSB
43 Brown
43 Maryland
47 UCI
51 USC
52 Rutgers
54 Vanderbilt
58 Penn State
58 UCD
60 Purdue
62 Carnegie Mellon
64 Ohio State
65 Pitt
67 McGill
72 Boston University
78 Florida
82 Rice
86 Arizona
88 Arizona St
90 Rochester
96 Texas A&M
99 Georgia Tech
101-150 Case Western
101-150 Emory
101-150 Indiana
101-150 Michigan State
101-150 Virginia
151-200 Iowa State
151-200 Iowa
201-300 SUNY- Stony Brook
201-300 SUNY-Buffalo
201-300 Kansas
201-300 Missouri
201-300 Oregon
301-400 Brandeis
301-400 Tulane

Where did you get those numbers?

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2014.html

For 2014, GT is 52 in the US

Iowa State, NC State, Georgia, Iowa, and Miami are schools that fall in the 65-77 range.

Virginia Tech, Tennessee, and South Carolina come in at the 78-104 level.

(07-28-2015 09:40 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 08:41 AM)Okielite Wrote:  Oh buy. Now we are talking Houston to the B1G? Good lord this board is off the wall.

Only Texas school I could see them wanting aside from UT is Rice. Rice is an easy sell to university presidents. Rice also has enough money to buy whatever facilities or coaches they would need if they were to move. Endowment over 5 million. Plus they already have a big stadium and are located in a great spot.

But they are not a good fit with a conference that is almost entirely made up of state flagship and land grant schools.

And while Rice might tap into an endowment for sports facilities .... they can't just rely on the endowment for coaches salaries, since for one thing that eating your seed corn, and for another thing, the kind of people who contributed to the Rice endowment are not likely to be people who put expensive college sports first and foremost.

The only two Texas schools that the Big Ten conference would want are Texas and Texas A&M, and Texas A&M is (1) already building up equity in the SEC Network and (2) located in the most "Dixie" part of Texas, making the SEC West its most natural fit, so that realignment is already water under the bridge.

(07-28-2015 08:52 AM)kellernr Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 01:58 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  It wouldn't Surprise Me in the least that at the first hint of Big 12 collapse with OU and Kansas leaving for B!G, The ACC would send out invites to Texas, Baylor, TCU, WVU. If Texas said No or went elsewhere, the ACC would probably invite WVU and grab Cincinnati to cut off Big 12 expansion replacement. that would give the ACC 16 plus Notre Dame and a very strong conference in Football and Basketball.

UConn will be picked over Cincy for the ACC

That's another football schools vs basketball schools fight like the one that UConn lost out to Louisville. I reckon Tobacco Road would go for UConn, UL, Pitt, BC, VTech, Clemson and FSU would go for UC. I don't have any inkling which way UVA or GTech would be inclined to go.

Not sure there's an obvious choice between UC and UConn.

(07-28-2015 11:13 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 10:21 AM)Okielite Wrote:  The only two Texas schools that the Big Ten conference would want are Texas and Texas A&M

Then why is the Big 10 wasting its time vetting Houston? We know they've visited, given us a list of things they want to see (most of which have been completed), and plan a return visit.

Why is Houston's beat writer at the Houston Chronicle going on the radio and publicly saying that UH to the Big 10 is possible? Answer: Because Houston officials genuinely believe it's possible based on feedback they've received from the Big 10.

Delany has proven to be an outside the box thinker. Your thinking is 100% conventional. If you were the Big 10 commissioner, Houston would not have a shot. But Delany is, and you don't know jack.

If the Big Ten passed on FSU while Penn State's current president was the president of FSU, they sure as shlt aren't going to take Houston.