(07-27-2015 11:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 06:50 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Vouchers.

NC Court allows vouchers

Quote:That it was a 4-3 decision, with the court’s four Republicans ruling in the majority and the three Democrats dissenting,

Dems are owned by the teacher union thugs. As soon as blacks realize that Dems are not concerned about them getting a quality education, maybe they'll start to vote for the Repubs.

So blacks haven't realized something that you somehow have figured out?

Plenty.

(07-27-2015 11:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That teacher better get his/her ass in gear, because he/she is going to be out of a job if not. That's the way it should be.

/teacher gets ass in gear
//teacher gets disciplined by administration
///teacher goes back to old way

(07-27-2015 11:41 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That teacher better get his/her ass in gear, because he/she is going to be out of a job if not. That's the way it should be.

/teacher gets ass in gear
//teacher gets disciplined by administration
///teacher goes back to old way

Old way? Kids don't learn that way any more.

(07-27-2015 11:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 06:50 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Vouchers.

NC Court allows vouchers

Quote:That it was a 4-3 decision, with the court’s four Republicans ruling in the majority and the three Democrats dissenting,

Dems are owned by the teacher union thugs. As soon as blacks realize that Dems are not concerned about them getting a quality education, maybe they'll start to vote for the Repubs.

So blacks haven't realized something that you somehow have figured out?

I'm sure some have. Those would be the 4% who already vote Republican.

(07-27-2015 11:26 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  How is competition going to make a teacher teach better, especially when the only remaining students in their classes are the worst ones, because the ones with more aptitude or more concerned parents moved to a charter school?

I totally agree.

But here's my position. Let's do everything we can to give the students who have parental support a chance to thrive. I get it that the charters and the vouchers will be used by the parents who are committed to help their children and that the parents who don't care will let their kids stay in the under performing schools. But should we condemn the ones that want to succeed also? Oh yeah. Equality of outcome.

I think we should just privatize schooling. That way only well-to-do kids get educations and everyone else becomes a "slave" to corporations in low paying jobs. That will fix everything.

(07-27-2015 12:17 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I think we should just privatize schooling. That way only well-to-do kids get educations and everyone else becomes a "slave" to corporations in low paying jobs. That will fix everything.

You're like....the quintessential liberal talking head......baseless hyperbolic nonsense.

(07-27-2015 12:17 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I think we should just privatize schooling. That way only well-to-do kids get educations and everyone else becomes a "slave" to corporations in low paying jobs. That will fix everything.

Well with your snarky comment out of the way, what do you propose be done?

(07-27-2015 11:34 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:30 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:26 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  How is competition going to make a teacher teach better, especially when the only remaining students in their classes are the worst ones, because the ones with more aptitude or more concerned parents moved to a charter school?

That's the "why shouldn't they all fail together" argument at its finest.

Are you going to rate the teachers with the leftover students the same as you're going to rate the teachers at the charter schools?

It's a death spiral for those schools.

That's a fair point, but it isn't the one you seem to have expressed at first.

Rating teachers is a pretty crappy area if you ask me, so you'll get no argument from me on that.

That said, saying we shouldn't improve schools for these kids because it may not improve for this kid is a silly argument.

Raise taxes on the suburbs.

Disproportionately give money to inner city schools that don't provide any of the tax revenue.

That tax revenue is subsequently squandered by mismanagement, high administration salaries, and incompetent teachers.

The children, despite the spike in funding, are no better off than before.

Plan fails.

Try it again and call it something else.

(07-27-2015 12:24 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:34 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:30 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:26 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  How is competition going to make a teacher teach better, especially when the only remaining students in their classes are the worst ones, because the ones with more aptitude or more concerned parents moved to a charter school?

That's the "why shouldn't they all fail together" argument at its finest.

Are you going to rate the teachers with the leftover students the same as you're going to rate the teachers at the charter schools?

It's a death spiral for those schools.

That's a fair point, but it isn't the one you seem to have expressed at first.

Rating teachers is a pretty crappy area if you ask me, so you'll get no argument from me on that.

That said, saying we shouldn't improve schools for these kids because it may not improve for this kid is a silly argument.

I'm mostly just thinking out loud, what the inevitable consequences are. There's a certain fraction that might be better off, at least if the new school doesn't go belly up. I'm wondering about everyone else though.

(07-27-2015 11:49 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:41 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That teacher better get his/her ass in gear, because he/she is going to be out of a job if not. That's the way it should be.

/teacher gets ass in gear
//teacher gets disciplined by administration
///teacher goes back to old way

Old way? Kids don't learn that way any more.

That's the Problem, They just get passed on to the Next Teacher to worry about Them until That Teacher starts banging Their own head against the wall and passes them on to the Next One.

(07-27-2015 11:41 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That teacher better get his/her ass in gear, because he/she is going to be out of a job if not. That's the way it should be.

/teacher gets ass in gear
//teacher gets disciplined by administration
///teacher goes back to old way

If that is the progression, then it should be:

Teacher gets ass in gear.
Teacher gets disciplined by administration.
Administration gets fired.

I think a lot of people really underestimate how entrenched the problems are.

It's easy to say "be a good teacher" but how exactly you do that is a serious challenge. Put simply, you can't.

Besides, what exactly is a "good teacher?" If by getting kids to pass AP tests makes a good teacher then that is great but, they still are not necessarily a good teacher. If passing the state tests makes them a good teacher, same goes. Teaching to the test doesn't make one a good teacher.

My fiancé is a teacher, at one of the top performing schools in the nation, and they send her to Georgia to sit at a conference where teachers from around the country sat around and decided what not to teach as they guessed at what was going to be on the test.

The education system is broken on a fundamental level. There is no such thing as a decent public K-12 education in this country today; it simply doesn't exists.

Teachers that teach to the test get the results. I teach to the test no ifs ands or buts. You do have to find different hooks now a days but my job isn't necessarily harder. I get the pats on the back and the atta boy but I know its the bright top 20% that is getting the shaft. The middle kids are getting a better education and the bottom 30% are getting the best education they would get vs. any other setting or system. I get some of the highest scores in my state. I've received state wide recognition but I would only say this on here. I know how the sausage is made and it's not the best system for our top kids.

We get what we emphasize and right now it's mediocrity. I've said this a thousand times. Can you imagine a Navy Seal instructor being graded on how many recruits they get through a certain Buds class! Hell no! They celebrate the ones who ring out!! We celebrate mediocrity. We really do and it's not a struggle.

I will say this though. My school has over 65% of our kids on free and reduced lunch money. The caveat is the median house price in my district is over 200,000. The majority of kids in our school come from parents that rent. You ask how that is? We have a lot of lake front property. If you have a million dollar home you probably don't have school age kids. So we can have one of the highest per pupil expenditures in the state. Believe it or not Republicans money can make a difference. Probably the biggest area is in the problem kids. We have a dedicated Alternative Learning Education Center that we call ALEC. If kids aren't following the program they are out of the classroom. I think that's the urban school teacher's downfall. They don't get the outside support. I think they put up with ten times the distractions that we put up with.


My two cents.

(07-27-2015 12:01 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 06:50 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Vouchers.

NC Court allows vouchers

Quote:That it was a 4-3 decision, with the court’s four Republicans ruling in the majority and the three Democrats dissenting,

Dems are owned by the teacher union thugs. As soon as blacks realize that Dems are not concerned about them getting a quality education, maybe they'll start to vote for the Repubs.

So blacks haven't realized something that you somehow have figured out?

I'm sure some have. Those would be the 4% who already vote Republican.

So what you are saying is that 96% of black people vote Democrat because they are not as smart as you?

(07-27-2015 01:18 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:49 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:41 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That teacher better get his/her ass in gear, because he/she is going to be out of a job if not. That's the way it should be.

/teacher gets ass in gear
//teacher gets disciplined by administration
///teacher goes back to old way

Old way? Kids don't learn that way any more.

That's the Problem, They just get passed on to the Next Teacher to worry about Them until That Teacher starts banging Their own head against the wall and passes them on to the Next One.

We have no choice because Bush said not to leave any child behind.

(07-27-2015 08:41 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  From the NC article.

Risky voucher schemes like the current law will not require schools to have qualified teachers or a standard curriculum, and allow publicly funded private schools to discriminate against students on the basis of income, disability or religion. Schools that receive vouchers have no accountability for student learning and achievement.

How could ANYONE who actually cares about educating kids be for this? It boggles the mind.

All schooling should be private. With a private school, no matter who is teaching your kid, if they don't perform they don't get paid. With a public school, no matter what "certifications" teachers have, they get paid no matter if everyone fails or not. And the unions make sure they still get all their pensions and benefits whether they can teach or not.

How could ANYONE who actually cares about educating kids be for public schools? It boggles the mind!

(07-27-2015 11:44 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 12:01 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 11:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 06:50 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Vouchers.

NC Court allows vouchers

Quote:That it was a 4-3 decision, with the court’s four Republicans ruling in the majority and the three Democrats dissenting,

Dems are owned by the teacher union thugs. As soon as blacks realize that Dems are not concerned about them getting a quality education, maybe they'll start to vote for the Repubs.

So blacks haven't realized something that you somehow have figured out?

I'm sure some have. Those would be the 4% who already vote Republican.

So what you are saying is that 96% of black people vote Democrat because they are not as smart as you?

That's a given.

(07-27-2015 04:59 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Teachers that teach to the test get the results. I teach to the test no ifs ands or buts. You do have to find different hooks now a days but my job isn't necessarily harder. I get the pats on the back and the atta boy but I know its the bright top 20% that is getting the shaft. The middle kids are getting a better education and the bottom 30% are getting the best education they would get vs. any other setting or system. I get some of the highest scores in my state. I've received state wide recognition but I would only say this on here. I know how the sausage is made and it's not the best system for our top kids.

We get what we emphasize and right now it's mediocrity. I've said this a thousand times. Can you imagine a Navy Seal instructor being graded on how many recruits they get through a certain Buds class! Hell no! They celebrate the ones who ring out!! We celebrate mediocrity. We really do and it's not a struggle.

I will say this though. My school has over 65% of our kids on free and reduced lunch money. The caveat is the median house price in my district is over 200,000. The majority of kids in our school come from parents that rent. You ask how that is? We have a lot of lake front property. If you have a million dollar home you probably don't have school age kids. So we can have one of the highest per pupil expenditures in the state. Believe it or not Republicans money can make a difference. Probably the biggest area is in the problem kids. We have a dedicated Alternative Learning Education Center that we call ALEC. If kids aren't following the program they are out of the classroom. I think that's the urban school teacher's downfall. They don't get the outside support. I think they put up with ten times the distractions that we put up with.


My two cents.

When it comes to public education, which many believe to be the best way to achieve upward social mobility, teaching to the middle and especially the bottom kids is the goal. While the top students aren't being challenged within the school proper, a district wide AP/community college program can address those deficiencies.

As far as what inner city schools have to deal with, I would contend that an ALEC like alternative is untenable because most of the students would fall into such a category.