Two or three-team expansion (not enough of a market yet to go bigger):

London (13 million metro area)
Germany (Rhein-Dusseldorf area = 11.8 million population)
Amsterdam (Randstad area = 6.6 million metro area)

These are three of the largest metro areas in Europe with the most likely support for American football. They are also all within geographic proximity (2 hours from Amsterdam to Dussefldorf - 1 hours flight across the Channel/North Sea from London).

Three European teams would be nice because you could get at least 4 games for each team in Europe, including 2 road games. This would require only 9 stateside teams to travel to Europe during the season.

Any team that plays in Europe would play 2 of the 3 teams over consecutive weekends and with a bye week following. Or, have the second game on Thursday or Saturday - if the bye week exception is too difficult to manage.

European teams travelling stateside would play 2 consecutive road games (so three 2-game road trips), with the second game on Thursday, Saturday or a Sunday daytime kickoff. Daytime kickoffs are likely preferred so that the European market can watch their team play at a decent hour.

For league structure and the playoffs, treat the three European teams as a separate division and the division winner eligible to host one of the wild card games (either AFC or NFC!) on the first day of the playoffs. For the schedule, have the three Europe teams play a balanced AFC/NFC schedule (6/6 plus 4 Euro games).

This would be a solid move for the NFL-

As far as travel- I imagine they'd run camp in the states/have training facilities here, then play 4 games on the road, 4 at home, 4 on the road, etc. to eliminate some of the travel issues.

I also imagine the TV money from England/Europe is solid enough to make it work.

I have always thought they should give Monterrey Mexico a team

To develop football in Europe, also institute an 8-team developmental league in the following areas:

Manchester-Liverpool - 5.3 million metro
Birmingham - 3.8 million metro
Berlin - 5 million metro
Frankfurt - 4 million metro
Hamburg - 3.2 million metro
Manheim - 2.5 million region
Stuttgart or Munich - 2.3 million metro for each
Dublin - 1 million metro (smaller, but has popularity)

This will help to drive popularity for the football and NFL in Europe, with the long-term plan to expand into perhaps Manchester, Berlin, or Frankfurt.

Also consider:
Paris - 11.9 million
Madrid - 6.3 million
Barcelona - 4.9 million
Milan - 4.3 million
Rome - 4 million
Copenhagen - 2.4 million

But, the more sound strategy would be to focus on UK and Germany.

Also, incentivize NCAA college teams to come play in NFL Euro stadiums frequently - a la the Croke Park Classic.

(07-13-2015 02:27 PM)YNot Wrote:  To develop football in Europe, also institute an 8-team developmental league in the following areas:

Manchester-Liverpool - 5.3 million metro
Birmingham - 3.8 million metro
Berlin - 5 million metro
Frankfurt - 4 million metro
Hamburg - 3.2 million metro
Manheim - 2.5 million region
Stuttgart or Munich - 2.3 million metro for each
Dublin - 1 million metro (smaller, but has popularity)

This will help to drive popularity for the football and NFL in Europe, with the long-term plan to expand into perhaps Manchester, Berlin, or Frankfurt.

Also consider:
Paris - 11.9 million
Madrid - 6.3 million
Barcelona - 4.9 million
Milan - 4.3 million
Rome - 4 million
Copenhagen - 2.4 million

But, the more sound strategy would be to focus on UK and Germany.

Also, incentivize NCAA college teams to come play in NFL Euro stadiums frequently - a la the Croke Park Classic.

NFL Europe already had teams in Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin, Cologne, Frankfurt, Hamburg, and London. It also had teams in Dusseldorf and Edinburgh/Glasgow. The league was losing something like $30 million/year at the end when it was shut down at 2007. Much of the fan base for the German teams were US expats at the military bases, much of which has been drawn down. I'm not convinced that the idea is any more viable now than it was back then.

the worry about travel time to London is not that big of deal if the NFL does it right.

players can fly in the day before, go to bed early, play the game next day and fly back. same as any road game.

how could it be any worse than making a road team play on a Monday night or a thursday night?

(07-14-2015 07:28 PM)goofus Wrote:  the worry about travel time to London is not that big of deal if the NFL does it right.

players can fly in the day before, go to bed early, play the game next day and fly back. same as any road game.

how could it be any worse than making a road team play on a Monday night or a thursday night?

London to LA would be a tough road trip. An 11.5 hour flight each way.

(07-12-2015 08:54 AM)CameramanJ Wrote:  How would they cover the travel expenses? Subsidies? Tightening the belt in other areas?

????? I would assume they dip into the giant bag of money they earn every time they play a game anywhere. ????

(07-14-2015 07:42 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 07:28 PM)goofus Wrote:  the worry about travel time to London is not that big of deal if the NFL does it right.

players can fly in the day before, go to bed early, play the game next day and fly back. same as any road game.

how could it be any worse than making a road team play on a Monday night or a thursday night?

London to LA would be a tough road trip. An 11.5 hour flight each way.

yes but if London and LA are in opposite conferences, each team only has to make that trip once every 8 years.

It would obviously be an investment in growing the league into the only major media market that speaks the language that the league doesn't own already. Canada already is pretty much owned for the NFL. Mexico & Central America isn't as lucrative. Where else you gonna go for real increases in potential market???

It's gotta be looked at as an investment over the long term if it makes sense at all.

(07-14-2015 08:37 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 07:42 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 07:28 PM)goofus Wrote:  the worry about travel time to London is not that big of deal if the NFL does it right.

players can fly in the day before, go to bed early, play the game next day and fly back. same as any road game.

how could it be any worse than making a road team play on a Monday night or a thursday night?

London to LA would be a tough road trip. An 11.5 hour flight each way.

yes but if London and LA are in opposite conferences, each team only has to make that trip once every 8 years.

Seattle is almost as far. I think as fans we take for granted the travel. Remember how the Bills had to move a game this year because of a massive blizzard three days before. The equipment, the personnel - there's a ton of stuff involved. And none of this addressed the fact that the players will be paying over a 50% effective tax rate to play in London because the US is not in the EU.

Also take into account the playoffs and how inflexible those times are. The NFL's bread and butter is TV money, so all those comments about playing the London games at times that aren't currently NFL game times - those aren't going to happen. So imagine you have the Patriots/Colts (or similar type matchup between elite QBs) and you have Packers/Cowboys (historically great franchises) going up against the other two games being played in that round/weekend. The sunday games MUST be pats/colts and packers/cowboys.. Now the London jag-whatevers are definitely playing on Saturday (leaving out the monday playoff expansion for now, which would be even worse - primetime US game at 8pm eastern on a monday is midnight UK). Jagwhats are either starting at 4 eastern (8pm) or 8 (midnight). Again, it is determined by ratings. If the Jags were the better match up, they would be the 8pm/midnight game... because it is about TV, not attendance.

(07-13-2015 02:02 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 01:45 PM)jskwrite Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 01:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 09:57 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 08:57 PM)goofus Wrote:  huh? Explain please.

This is a good place to start: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/oct/28/newsstory.sport2

That is pretty disgusting to read.

much worse has been happening in the italian leagues for awhile.

Had no idea about that kind of disgusting anti semetic behavior was common over there.

Many Europeans are rabidly pro-Palestinian and believe that Israel is a rogue, oppressive and criminal regime.

(07-14-2015 10:11 PM)jskwrite Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:37 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 07:42 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 07:28 PM)goofus Wrote:  the worry about travel time to London is not that big of deal if the NFL does it right.

players can fly in the day before, go to bed early, play the game next day and fly back. same as any road game.

how could it be any worse than making a road team play on a Monday night or a thursday night?

London to LA would be a tough road trip. An 11.5 hour flight each way.

yes but if London and LA are in opposite conferences, each team only has to make that trip once every 8 years.

Seattle is almost as far. I think as fans we take for granted the travel. Remember how the Bills had to move a game this year because of a massive blizzard three days before. The equipment, the personnel - there's a ton of stuff involved. And none of this addressed the fact that the players will be paying over a 50% effective tax rate to play in London because the US is not in the EU.

Also take into account the playoffs and how inflexible those times are. The NFL's bread and butter is TV money, so all those comments about playing the London games at times that aren't currently NFL game times - those aren't going to happen. So imagine you have the Patriots/Colts (or similar type matchup between elite QBs) and you have Packers/Cowboys (historically great franchises) going up against the other two games being played in that round/weekend. The sunday games MUST be pats/colts and packers/cowboys.. Now the London jag-whatevers are definitely playing on Saturday (leaving out the monday playoff expansion for now, which would be even worse - primetime US game at 8pm eastern on a monday is midnight UK). Jagwhats are either starting at 4 eastern (8pm) or 8 (midnight). Again, it is determined by ratings. If the Jags were the better match up, they would be the 8pm/midnight game... because it is about TV, not attendance.

yes, on that part I agree. Time zone differences, passportss, and taxes are going to be issues. I was just saying travel time itself is not that big of deal.

As for playoff games involving London. I would think those are rare enough (once in 3 years), they can be slotted to start at 2pm eastern (7pm ) Sunday or Saturday. the networks will go along.

The Super Bowl is the only game where the start time can't change, which means London fans would have to stay up for a 10:20pm start time for the Super Bowl.

The kickoff times would not be that big of a deal. Remember until the first time experiment this year, the games in London were played in Prime Time in London, with them fitting neatly in the 1:00 EST TV window. They only experienced with the 9:00 kickoff once (they are going to do it again, but just pointing it out). The only thing it would mean is a home game in London can never be in the primetime TV window, and must always be in the early afternoon window. The only time that would cause an issue for the playoffs is a conference championship game, since that is the only time both games windows are outside of London Prime Time.

From what I've read, the NFL is very serious about London....would not surprise me at all to see them send the Jaguars there.

I also see them getting 2 teams in LA...I think Toronto is on the radar as well. I know they were trying to get the Bills over there, but I think that failed. Wouldn't surprise me to see someone like the Rams or maybe eventually Detroit end up in Toronto or London

I think conquering the rest of Europe would be harder...I got the feeling NFL Europe was only moderately successful in England, Amsterdam, and Frankfurt

Didn't Jaguars just upgrade their whole stadium in Jacksonville. New Gigamtic Scoreboard and Swimming Pools on the upper decks

(07-15-2015 06:09 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Didn't Jaguars just upgrade their whole stadium in Jacksonville. New Gigamtic Scoreboard and Swimming Pools on the upper decks

Well they were not leaving in 2013, more like 2018+, so they needed a plan for the 6 to 10 years before they move. At least if they leave now after 2018, the owners can say the made an honest effort to bring in fans to Jax before they bailed. and they gave the London market sufficient time to see if the NFL interest is legit or just a fad.