(07-10-2015 09:05 AM)ark30inf Wrote: New Orleans is now considering destroying Lee Circle and getting rid of all Confederate statuary.
Memphis is digging up the dead.
It's a cultural revolution and it will get stupider and stupider.
Memphis is returning the dead to their resting place...which is still in Memphis
Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
the expectation that this was was a 'flip the switch' victory was/is beyond naive....
one simple caveat is to view how the 'great migration' to the north impacted racial tension/violence in the years that immediately followed...
most people really don't understand that racial tensions are mostly due to mainly two factors....lack of wealth/earning potential and disparity of education level.....and it still exists today...
why anyone would think that integrating a slave culture to a state of normalcy should happen 'instantaneously' is simply stupid and unrealistic.
many more moons are going to have to pass before satisfactory equilibrium is achieved....
(07-10-2015 09:05 AM)ark30inf Wrote: New Orleans is now considering destroying Lee Circle and getting rid of all Confederate statuary.
Memphis is digging up the dead.
It's a cultural revolution and it will get stupider and stupider.
Memphis is returning the dead to their resting place...which is still in Memphis
Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
Uh but the flag had nothing to do with the Civil War and everything to do with the opposition to integration. Just say that you are against integration. Don't hide behind a flag.
Excellent point which is why I don't have a problem with the other stuff. Just the flag.
If I was a black parent, I would hang a confederate flag on the inside of my front door as a reminder to my children the opportunity that now exists as they walk outside...I would also remind them that many choose to view that symbol as a matter of regional pride and not prejudice so they would understand the concept of how tolerance works both ways
but you wouldn't understand that concept.....your methods involve erasure of historical evolution.....as a supposed history edumacator, this should be taboo at all costs
you really are fit to be tied to the bud your native land has provided at a criminal cost to so many....puff puff says this magic dragon...
edit: 1, 3, and 4 of sig apply to you
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2015 12:12 PM by stinkfist.)
Had a conversation with my grandpa and my dad about this. I've said before, the flag isn't a great first impression when you see someone wearing it (not much different than self-awareness lacking pants slackers to me), but it is history. Both of them are totally against removal of the flag and monuments.
In Vance County, all we have is history. Hell, we're named Vance County because of Zebulon Vance--Confederate Governor of NC--, for whom they made this county to keep black votes concentrated in on area. Two of our most visited museums are of Henderson Institute and Kittrell College, which were black schools founded only because of segregation. Both of these schools produced Grammy Winners, military officers, University Presidents (one who was recently lost to cancer at Washington State), NFL players, and many other things. They were closed as schools after integration. If we don't want to have monuments to painful eras in history, we lose these two things.
As said before, the biggest mistake we've made in recording the accomplishments and contributions of black people in our history and even then they did it separately. Actually we still do it separately. Then we wonder why there are AA studies courses, a black history month, etc.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2015 12:39 PM by nomad2u2001.)
(07-10-2015 09:06 AM)UofMemphis Wrote: Memphis is returning the dead to their resting place...which is still in Memphis
Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
Uh but the flag had nothing to do with the Civil War and everything to do with the opposition to integration. Just say that you are against integration. Don't hide behind a flag.
Excellent point which is why I don't have a problem with the other stuff. Just the flag.
If I was a black parent, I would hang a confederate flag on the inside of my front door as a reminder to my children the opportunity that now exists as they walk outside...I would also remind them that many choose to view that symbol as a matter of regional pride and not prejudice so they would understand the concept of how tolerance works both ways
but you wouldn't understand that concept.....your methods involve erasure of historical evolution.....as a supposed history edumacator, this should be taboo at all costs
you really are fit to be tied to the bud your native land has provided at a criminal cost to so many....puff puff says this magic dragon...
edit: 1, 3, and 4 of sig apply to you
I'd tell my kids that the regional pride thing and the racism thing are both very small percentages compared to those who just view it as cool and a form of social currency.
It's important to not look down on someone with Confederate flag t-shirts, mudflaps, tats, bikinis. But to say that they're doing it because of heritage is silly.
(07-10-2015 09:27 AM)ark30inf Wrote: Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
Uh but the flag had nothing to do with the Civil War and everything to do with the opposition to integration. Just say that you are against integration. Don't hide behind a flag.
Excellent point which is why I don't have a problem with the other stuff. Just the flag.
If I was a black parent, I would hang a confederate flag on the inside of my front door as a reminder to my children the opportunity that now exists as they walk outside...I would also remind them that many choose to view that symbol as a matter of regional pride and not prejudice so they would understand the concept of how tolerance works both ways
but you wouldn't understand that concept.....your methods involve erasure of historical evolution.....as a supposed history edumacator, this should be taboo at all costs
you really are fit to be tied to the bud your native land has provided at a criminal cost to so many....puff puff says this magic dragon...
edit: 1, 3, and 4 of sig apply to you
I'd tell my kids that the regional pride thing and the racism thing are both very small percentages compared to those who just view it as cool and a form of social currency.
It's important to not look down on someone with Confederate flag t-shirts, mudflaps, tats, bikinis. But to say that they're doing it because of heritage is silly.
I easily view things like these as 'reminders'......isn't that how we got to this point in the first place.....remembering, then moving forward?
erasure helps that to the power of zero....
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2015 01:31 PM by stinkfist.)
(07-10-2015 09:05 AM)ark30inf Wrote: New Orleans is now considering destroying Lee Circle and getting rid of all Confederate statuary.
Memphis is digging up the dead.
It's a cultural revolution and it will get stupider and stupider.
Memphis is returning the dead to their resting place...which is still in Memphis
Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
the expectation that this was was a 'flip the switch' victory was/is beyond naive....
one simple caveat is to view how the 'great migration' to the north impacted racial tension/violence in the years that immediately followed...
most people really don't understand that racial tensions are mostly due to mainly two factors....lack of wealth/earning potential and disparity of education level.....and it still exists today...
why anyone would think that integrating a slave culture to a state of normalcy should happen 'instantaneously' is simply stupid and unrealistic.
many more moons are going to have to pass before satisfactory equilibrium is achieved....
That equilibrium won't be reached with Al Sharpton, extortion, rioting, and affirmative action.
(07-10-2015 09:27 AM)ark30inf Wrote: Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
Uh but the flag had nothing to do with the Civil War and everything to do with the opposition to integration. Just say that you are against integration. Don't hide behind a flag.
Excellent point which is why I don't have a problem with the other stuff. Just the flag.
If I was a black parent, I would hang a confederate flag on the inside of my front door as a reminder to my children the opportunity that now exists as they walk outside...I would also remind them that many choose to view that symbol as a matter of regional pride and not prejudice so they would understand the concept of how tolerance works both ways
but you wouldn't understand that concept.....your methods involve erasure of historical evolution.....as a supposed history edumacator, this should be taboo at all costs
you really are fit to be tied to the bud your native land has provided at a criminal cost to so many....puff puff says this magic dragon...
edit: 1, 3, and 4 of sig apply to you
I'd tell my kids that the regional pride thing and the racism thing are both very small percentages compared to those who just view it as cool and a form of social currency.
It's important to not look down on someone with Confederate flag t-shirts, mudflaps, tats, bikinis. But to say that they're doing it because of heritage is silly.
Correct. I would like to see it at soldier's memorials, cemeteries, battlefields, etc. Not on bikinis, coolers, etc. It's a soldier's flag.
Part of why I don't care about the Dukes of Hazzard car but did care about the...you know....actual soldier's memorial.
(07-10-2015 09:05 AM)ark30inf Wrote: New Orleans is now considering destroying Lee Circle and getting rid of all Confederate statuary.
Memphis is digging up the dead.
It's a cultural revolution and it will get stupider and stupider.
Memphis is returning the dead to their resting place...which is still in Memphis
Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
the expectation that this was was a 'flip the switch' victory was/is beyond naive....
one simple caveat is to view how the 'great migration' to the north impacted racial tension/violence in the years that immediately followed...
most people really don't understand that racial tensions are mostly due to mainly two factors....lack of wealth/earning potential and disparity of education level.....and it still exists today...
why anyone would think that integrating a slave culture to a state of normalcy should happen 'instantaneously' is simply stupid and unrealistic.
many more moons are going to have to pass before satisfactory equilibrium is achieved....
Stop being a victim. Blacks have had 150 years to try to become a productive collective demographic group. 90 % of success is showing up...in school, to work , in a marriage , as a father and mother.
(07-10-2015 09:13 AM)bullet Wrote: The state isn't going to let them destroy the monument. There's the comments that the confederate flag should be relegated to museums. This is effectively a museum.
This is incremental. In 2000 the Confederate Memorial was an "appropriate place" with "proper historical context". Within months it was an outrage and now the Confederate Relic Room is an "appropriate place" with "proper historical context".
Just days ago people were saying that cemeteries were safe and that nobody was going to screw with the dead....but days later we're moving bodies and trying to ban marking Confederate graves in cemeteries.
The Confederate memorials to the men the state sent off to die (often conscripted) will soon have "no place" on property owned by the state that essentially sacrificed them on a bonfire.
It won't stop.
I read where the Houston ISD is considering renaming its 6 schools named after confederates-Johnston, Dowling, Jackson, Lee, Davis and Reagan. This despite the fact that Johnston and Reagan were Republic of Texas heroes before they were in the Confederate army.
Dowling led a force of 50 men who stopped a naval invasion force of 5,000 at Sabine Pass, Texas.
I guess the next round will be going after slaveowners, which means probably any prominent southerner. HISD will have to rename Sam Houston HS, Stephen F. Austin HS and James Madison HS as well. Lamar HS (president of Republic of Texas) probably goes too.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2015 04:15 PM by bullet.)
(07-10-2015 09:05 AM)ark30inf Wrote: New Orleans is now considering destroying Lee Circle and getting rid of all Confederate statuary.
Memphis is digging up the dead.
It's a cultural revolution and it will get stupider and stupider.
Memphis is returning the dead to their resting place...which is still in Memphis
Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
Uh but the flag had nothing to do with the Civil War and everything to do with the opposition to integration. Just say that you are against integration. Don't hide behind a flag.
Excellent point which is why I don't have a problem with the other stuff. Just the flag.
You are both pretty ignorant about the flag. Because some used it that way doesn't mean most used it that way.
(07-10-2015 09:46 AM)UofMemphis Wrote: no...that is a local public park...it's not yours...it's mine, and the citizens of Memphis...the officials we elected will decide what can and cannot go in OUR public parks.
So if another city council decided to move them back, you would be totally supportive of that too, right?
I follow the law...but the real answer to that question is this: lol, you clearly don't know Memphis politics, or the folks we elect.
To clarify - those people are corrupt, incompetent, have run off a hue chunk of their tax base, cant fund retirement for PD/ FD and other city workers. Its an absolute comedy show to sit back and watch.
You mean the white racists bailed because they can't stand the idea of living with blacks
(07-10-2015 09:46 AM)UofMemphis Wrote: no...that is a local public park...it's not yours...it's mine, and the citizens of Memphis...the officials we elected will decide what can and cannot go in OUR public parks.
So if another city council decided to move them back, you would be totally supportive of that too, right?
I follow the law...but the real answer to that question is this: lol, you clearly don't know Memphis politics, or the folks we elect.
To clarify - those people are corrupt, incompetent, have run off a hue chunk of their tax base, cant fund retirement for PD/ FD and other city workers. Its an absolute comedy show to sit back and watch.
You mean the white racists bailed because they can't stand the idea of living with blacks
No, I think that is what happened in Chicago, one of the most segregated cities in the country.
(07-10-2015 09:06 AM)UofMemphis Wrote: Memphis is returning the dead to their resting place...which is still in Memphis
Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
Uh but the flag had nothing to do with the Civil War and everything to do with the opposition to integration. Just say that you are against integration. Don't hide behind a flag.
Excellent point which is why I don't have a problem with the other stuff. Just the flag.
You are both pretty ignorant about the flag. Because some used it that way doesn't mean most used it that way.
XACLY!....simple logic doesn't work within 'their' agenda....and they're not ignorant.....idiots, but not ignorant....I'll compromise....idiotically ignorant should suffice....
(07-10-2015 09:05 AM)ark30inf Wrote: New Orleans is now considering destroying Lee Circle and getting rid of all Confederate statuary.
Memphis is digging up the dead.
It's a cultural revolution and it will get stupider and stupider.
Memphis is returning the dead to their resting place...which is still in Memphis
Which doesn't change the fact that it's part of a stupid cultural purge that will continue to grow in stupidity.
After the end of the war the US melded the two warring sides back into a shared culture. We wisely accepted all participants as Americans and over time it became OUR Civil War, OUR soldiers, OUR cemeteries, OUR war dead, OUR Generals, OUR memorials, OUR statues.
The only issue was not fully integrating African-Americans into that shared narrative.
We started to do so in recent decades with a focus on USCT, the movie Glory, creation of African-American memorials, additional material presented at parks, etc.
But now that's dead. Instead the new theory is that we should destroy the shared culture, purge it, and write a new story and become fire-eaters and abolitionists again and hit each other with canes and bombast until one of us submits.
This includes protesting flags painted on cars in 35 year old sitcoms.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
the expectation that this was was a 'flip the switch' victory was/is beyond naive....
one simple caveat is to view how the 'great migration' to the north impacted racial tension/violence in the years that immediately followed...
most people really don't understand that racial tensions are mostly due to mainly two factors....lack of wealth/earning potential and disparity of education level.....and it still exists today...
why anyone would think that integrating a slave culture to a state of normalcy should happen 'instantaneously' is simply stupid and unrealistic.
many more moons are going to have to pass before satisfactory equilibrium is achieved....
Stop being a victim. Blacks have had 150 years to try to become a productive collective demographic group. 90 % of success is showing up...in school, to work , in a marriage , as a father and mother.
if that came across as victimization, then I apologize....
having said that, I'm fairly certain you weren't talking about me....
the failure of correctly integrating a slave culture is a real issue that I now have to deal with....the more I understand and resolve the personal impact, the macro impact becomes much lighter...in other words, tending to ones sandbox makes for a delightful setting as the bees swarm into darkness....
the things I say relative to race and culture are almost always a posit on perspective relative to gaining an understanding from the self anticipated psychological/behavioral reaction from 'groups'
not all men were created equal.....that's a handful of centuries down the cobbles....
![[Image: 220px-Buddhas_of_Bamiyan_in_19_century.JPG]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan_in_19_century.JPG/220px-Buddhas_of_Bamiyan_in_19_century.JPG)
![[Image: 220px-Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fd/Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg/220px-Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg)
![[Image: 5417995539_7e1cff061a_z.jpg]](http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5093/5417995539_7e1cff061a_z.jpg)
