Frank only bone I have to pick with on this is ("There isn’t any obvious reason why Oklahoma itself would be pushing Houston specifically over the likes of BYU or Memphis") OU supports UH, because they want into the Houston recruiting grounds, that is the main reason. Bill Bender pointed our why, BYU is too far away and difficult to deal and the other issues being a Mormon school. Memphis great BB tradition program still has a ways to go on FB, doesn't move the needle for B12 fan base or Big 12 members. Rest is spot on in your analysis. We've (I mean UH supporters) been telling you folks up here for the past year or more OU has our back. Will UH be invited? hang on it's going to be a bumpy ride! Will see, it won't be because we haven't tried. If they expand to 12 with us and Cincy. Still 4 more spots or more for future growth when the merry go round starts all over in about 10 years time, when GOR's start running out.

LINK

OU would certainly like better access to the Houston recruiting grounds (and the 4 Texas schools would like to keep it for themselves and not create yet another mouth at the trough)

But what OU wants even MORE than that is a Big 12 conference network. They want UT to fold LHN into a B12N and then expand into new markets like Ohio, Florida to increase its value.

Both those factors imply that either way, UH isn't getting the votes.

(07-03-2015 09:48 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  OU would certainly like better access to the Houston recruiting grounds (and the 4 Texas schools would like to keep it for themselves and not create yet another mouth at the trough)

But what OU wants even MORE than that is a Big 12 conference network. They want UT to fold LHN into a B12N and then expand into new markets like Ohio, Florida to increase its value.

Both those factors imply that either way, UH isn't getting the votes.

Will see. Sittler who is a Oklahoma respected sportswriter who is close and has access to Boren, has said he Boren has the votes 9-1 in his favor. for expansion, this guy is on top of it..

(07-03-2015 09:48 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  OU would certainly like better access to the Houston recruiting grounds (and the 4 Texas schools would like to keep it for themselves and not create yet another mouth at the trough)

But what OU wants even MORE than that is a Big 12 conference network. They want UT to fold LHN into a B12N and then expand into new markets like Ohio, Florida to increase its value.

Both those factors imply that either way, UH isn't getting the votes.

If OU really supports UH, it might be because they want a conference network and know UT won't give up the LHN at this point in time. UH would probably be necessary to get coverage in Houston. Tech and TCU don't have many fans in Houston. OU doesn't have enough. Baylor probably doesn't have enough.

(07-03-2015 09:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 09:48 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  OU would certainly like better access to the Houston recruiting grounds (and the 4 Texas schools would like to keep it for themselves and not create yet another mouth at the trough)

But what OU wants even MORE than that is a Big 12 conference network. They want UT to fold LHN into a B12N and then expand into new markets like Ohio, Florida to increase its value.

Both those factors imply that either way, UH isn't getting the votes.

If OU really supports UH, it might be because they want a conference network and know UT won't give up the LHN at this point in time. UH would probably be necessary to get coverage in Houston. Tech and TCU don't have many fans in Houston. OU doesn't have enough. Baylor probably doesn't have enough.

Bingo.

AAC should give BYU a buzz. BYU should give Boise a buzz.

(07-03-2015 09:52 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 09:48 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  OU would certainly like better access to the Houston recruiting grounds (and the 4 Texas schools would like to keep it for themselves and not create yet another mouth at the trough)

But what OU wants even MORE than that is a Big 12 conference network. They want UT to fold LHN into a B12N and then expand into new markets like Ohio, Florida to increase its value.

Both those factors imply that either way, UH isn't getting the votes.

Will see. Sittler who is a Oklahoma respected sportswriter who is close and has access to Boren, has said he Boren has the votes 9-1 in his favor. for expansion, this guy is on top of it..

Pfffffffffft.

Sittler is a bored, retired sportswriter who got bought out by his former paper and is just trying to stir up shtt. The same situation as that other retired sportswriter Blaudschun who was trying to stir up shtt about the old Big East a few years ago.

If UT wont give up LHN then a B12 network is DOA

I think that UT would be willing to give up LHN if ESPN will guarantee them roughly the same amount of money for it (though that probably means the others wont be making quite as much but they'll still take it)

To me, thats the real ultimatum here from OU: give us a real conference network that secures financial competitiveness for the entire conference past this current round of contracts or we start looking elsewhere.

Why doesn't OU schedule Rice and UH on a semi regular basis?

Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

(07-03-2015 10:15 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  If UT wont give up LHN then a B12 network is DOA

I think that UT would be willing to give up LHN if ESPN will guarantee them roughly the same amount of money for it (though that probably means the others wont be making quite as much but they'll still take it)

To me, thats the real ultimatum here from OU: give us a real conference network that secures financial competitiveness for the entire conference past this current round of contracts or we start looking elsewhere.

It would still get UT on road games in most sports. Maybe an occasional football road game.

(07-03-2015 10:29 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

I think 5 is too many, but there are definitely differences from SWC days. Rice and SMU, the two with the weakest fan support, and duplicates in Houston and DFW, aren't in (as well as A&M). Big state schools from Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and W. Virginia are in. Also Texas had 17 million people in 1990. Now its about 27 million.

(07-03-2015 10:29 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

The way I believe the B12 is looking at it is Houston and Cincinnati are the two schools that help with market penetration and are ready to play at the power conference level.

If another school were to leave the B12 such as Kansas the options are down to Memphis, Tulane, NIU in the East and Colorado St, New Mexico, BYU in the West. If any one out of that group wins some access bowls they'll come to the front of the pack.

(07-03-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:29 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

I think 5 is too many, but there are definitely differences from SWC days. Rice and SMU, the two with the weakest fan support, and duplicates in Houston and DFW, aren't in (as well as A&M). Big state schools from Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and W. Virginia are in. Also Texas had 17 million people in 1990. Now its about 27 million.

Texas population projected to be 54 million plus by 2050.

(07-03-2015 11:07 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:29 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

I think 5 is too many, but there are definitely differences from SWC days. Rice and SMU, the two with the weakest fan support, and duplicates in Houston and DFW, aren't in (as well as A&M). Big state schools from Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and W. Virginia are in. Also Texas had 17 million people in 1990. Now its about 27 million.

Texas population projected to be 54 million plus by 2050.

(07-03-2015 10:17 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Why doesn't OU schedule Rice and UH on a semi regular basis?

I think this probably has more to do with Texas and Texas politicians than anything else.

(07-03-2015 11:07 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:29 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

I think 5 is too many, but there are definitely differences from SWC days. Rice and SMU, the two with the weakest fan support, and duplicates in Houston and DFW, aren't in (as well as A&M). Big state schools from Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and W. Virginia are in. Also Texas had 17 million people in 1990. Now its about 27 million.

Texas population projected to be 54 million plus by 2050.

... that's under a scenario that assumes a very high rate of immigration into Texas between now and 2050.

At a lower rate of immigration, the projection would be around 40 million Texans in 2050.

In that "big projection", about 55% of Texans will be Hispanic in 2050, and only about 22% Caucasian. So maybe Texas schools should shift their focus from college football to fútbol?

Here's an article with tables showing those Texas population projections:
http://blog.chron.com/insidepolicy/2014/...2010-2050/

(07-03-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:29 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

I think 5 is too many, but there are definitely differences from SWC days. Rice and SMU, the two with the weakest fan support, and duplicates in Houston and DFW, aren't in (as well as A&M). Big state schools from Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and W. Virginia are in. Also Texas had 17 million people in 1990. Now its about 27 million.

Right. I might add that the SWC comparison is silly. The SWC only had one team outside the Texas borders (Ark). When the Razorbacks left, the conference was entirely contained inside the borders of Texas. Worse yet, as you mentioned, it double dipped two major markets with 2 teams in Houston and two teams in the Dallas-Ft Worth area. The final SWC footprint makes the MAC look spread out.

Even if half the league was in Texas (which it wont be), a 12 team B-12 with Houston wouldn't even be remotely similar to the old SWC footprint. Additionally, the old SWC owned the Houston area with 2 teams in the city and one just outside the city (Aggie). The BIg-12 continued to exert a solid hold on Houston with A&M---but now, with A&M gone, the Big-12 is trying to hold Houston with one team in Austin and 3 in northern Texas. That's why the SEC is stronger than the Big-12 in Houston these days. Any claim that the Big-12 "owns" the Houston market ignores current trends and is based on an old dynamic created from blanket coverage that no longer exists.

(07-03-2015 11:29 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 11:07 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:29 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

I think 5 is too many, but there are definitely differences from SWC days. Rice and SMU, the two with the weakest fan support, and duplicates in Houston and DFW, aren't in (as well as A&M). Big state schools from Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and W. Virginia are in. Also Texas had 17 million people in 1990. Now its about 27 million.

Texas population projected to be 54 million plus by 2050.

... that's under a scenario that assumes a very high rate of immigration into Texas between now and 2050.

At a lower rate of immigration, the projection would be around 40 million Texans in 2050.

In that "big projection", about 55% of Texans will be Hispanic in 2050, and only about 22% Caucasian. So maybe Texas schools should shift their focus from college football to fútbol?

Here's an article with tables showing those Texas population projections:
http://blog.chron.com/insidepolicy/2014/...2010-2050/

lol.....I think Dynamo attendance will probably increase. That said, plenty of Hispanics at Texan and Coog games right now. I suspect that wont change. By the way, a significant portion of that population increase is current US residents flowing from job poor portions of the county to Texas, which is creating jobs at a faster rate than most any other state.

(07-03-2015 11:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 11:29 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 11:07 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 10:29 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  Just seems like the Southwest Conference all over again.. didn't that fail already once? Seems like a really stupid move to take Houston in. Doesn't add a market. Houston has been an 8-win a year (or so) Conference USA team. I just see a lot more upside with BYU and more of a Mountain-west foot print in recruiting. BYU is a better program, has a huge alumni/fan base all over the country... I think if this happens, the B12 will crumble soon enough... any non-Texas pieces that are useful to another conference will leave.

I think 5 is too many, but there are definitely differences from SWC days. Rice and SMU, the two with the weakest fan support, and duplicates in Houston and DFW, aren't in (as well as A&M). Big state schools from Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and W. Virginia are in. Also Texas had 17 million people in 1990. Now its about 27 million.

Texas population projected to be 54 million plus by 2050.

... that's under a scenario that assumes a very high rate of immigration into Texas between now and 2050.

At a lower rate of immigration, the projection would be around 40 million Texans in 2050.

In that "big projection", about 55% of Texans will be Hispanic in 2050, and only about 22% Caucasian. So maybe Texas schools should shift their focus from college football to fútbol?

Here's an article with tables showing those Texas population projections:
http://blog.chron.com/insidepolicy/2014/...2010-2050/

lol.....I think Dynamo attendance will probably increase. That said, plenty of Hispanics at Texan and Coog games right now. I suspect that wont change. By the way, a significant portion of that population increase is current US residents flowing from job poor portions of the county to Texas, which is creating jobs at a faster rate than most any other state.

No doubt there are people moving from places like Kansas and Louisiana into Texas, but if you look at those projections, the net number of Caucasians in Texas is projected to be roughly the same in 2050 as it is today. Look at the table that projects high immigration and 54 million Texans in 2050: It projects there will be only about 500,000 more Caucasians in Texas in 2050 than there were in 2010, and 20.4 million more Hispanics in Texas in 2050 compared to 2010.

As for which sport people watch, there will be plenty of people to watch both. If I were running a college in Texas, or California or any state in the southwest, I'd make sure we had men's and women's soccer teams because that's where future interest is going to grow, but college football will still retain interest.