(06-27-2015 09:13 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 08:53 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Tennessee lawmakers started on the Pastor Protection Act yesterday that will give churches the legal right to say no to gay weddings and preachers will suffer no consequences of denying to perform one.

Completely unneeded, but if it makes the "God, Gays, and Guns" brigade in Nashville happy, whatever...

speaking of guns, this ruling yesterday opens the door for a lawsuit forcing concealed carry in states that don't allow it now.

(06-27-2015 09:18 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 09:13 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 08:53 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Tennessee lawmakers started on the Pastor Protection Act yesterday that will give churches the legal right to say no to gay weddings and preachers will suffer no consequences of denying to perform one.

Completely unneeded, but if it makes the "God, Gays, and Guns" brigade in Nashville happy, whatever...

speaking of guns, this ruling yesterday opens the door for a lawsuit forcing concealed carry in states that don't allow it now.

Actually you could argue because of the ruling that came out yesterday that from state to state that individual rights must be exactly the same now based on the Equal Protection Clause.

So it is not fair for some people in some states to be allowed to carry and others can not. All do or all don't.

We could also argue that the stipend that people in Alaksa (Alaska Permanent Fund) get is unfair because the rest of the states in the country do not pay people the same amount.

If some people get a homesteader exemption on their property taxes, all should or no one should.

We all get free healthcare or no one gets free healthcare.

We all get welfare or no one gets welfare.

There can now be no differential treatment of any persons no matter how well intentioned the reason behind it.

Without a doubt they will, and they will use tax status as their tool.

I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

(06-27-2015 10:28 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

At least you waited a day to start attacking churches.

(06-27-2015 10:28 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

Of course you don't.

(06-27-2015 10:41 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:28 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

At least you waited a day to start attacking churches.

Its not just churches, but any other type of private club. Seriously, if you want to have a private club, don't ask the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Its not an attack to say "private clubs and associations shall pay property taxes", but rather personal responsibility.

If it angers you that some people have to implicitly subsidize a Union they dont agree with....then why would you demand that people that don't support or don't belong to a certain private club or church implicitly subsidize those organizations?

By the way, getting the government out of y'all's churches will make them more independent. Heck - you can even directly get involved in politics.

We don't have a First Amendment provision for Separation of Private Club and State. Thats a big difference.

(06-27-2015 11:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:41 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:28 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

At least you waited a day to start attacking churches.

Its not just churches, but any other type of private club. Seriously, if you want to have a private club, don't ask the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Its not an attack to say "private clubs and associations shall pay property taxes", but rather personal responsibility.

If it angers you that some people have to implicitly subsidize a Union they dont agree with....then why would you demand that people that don't support or don't belong to a certain private club or church implicitly subsidize those organizations?

By the way, getting the government out of y'all's churches will make them more independent. Heck - you can even directly get involved in politics.

Churches aren't private clubs. There aren't membership fees.

Christian churches at their core are charities. Now are there some churches who are more business driven than gospel drive. Absolutely, but that's a different convo for a different thread. Churches donate more money, time, and resources in outreach and ministry than most non-profits.

(06-27-2015 11:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:41 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:28 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

At least you waited a day to start attacking churches.

Its not just churches, but any other type of private club. Seriously, if you want to have a private club, don't ask the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Its not an attack to say "private clubs and associations shall pay property taxes", but rather personal responsibility.

If it angers you that some people have to implicitly subsidize a Union they dont agree with....then why would you demand that people that don't support or don't belong to a certain private club or church implicitly subsidize those organizations?

By the way, getting the government out of y'all's churches will make them more independent. Heck - you can even directly get involved in politics.

Churches used to be the backbone of this country. That's why the Puritans left England, to practice their religion freely. And now churches have been reduced to "private clubs" ... no better than saloons and gentlemen's clubs.

Sad.

(06-27-2015 11:30 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:41 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:28 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

At least you waited a day to start attacking churches.

Its not just churches, but any other type of private club. Seriously, if you want to have a private club, don't ask the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Its not an attack to say "private clubs and associations shall pay property taxes", but rather personal responsibility.

If it angers you that some people have to implicitly subsidize a Union they dont agree with....then why would you demand that people that don't support or don't belong to a certain private club or church implicitly subsidize those organizations?

By the way, getting the government out of y'all's churches will make them more independent. Heck - you can even directly get involved in politics.

Churches used to be the backbone of this country. That's why the Puritans left England, to practice their religion freely. And now churches have been reduced to "private clubs" ... no better than saloons and gentlemen's clubs.

Sad.

They didn't leave for a 'tax break'.

For a non-member, a church is just that...a private club. Really no different than a Country Club or the Polo Grounds. The Yacht Club and the Polo Club do charitable events too.

Plenty of churches require payment in the form of tithes in order to vote on leadership of the club. Heck, some Synagogues charge admission on high holidays. Plenty of churches don't take anyone to be an officer of the church.

(06-27-2015 11:42 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:30 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:41 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:28 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

At least you waited a day to start attacking churches.

Its not just churches, but any other type of private club. Seriously, if you want to have a private club, don't ask the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Its not an attack to say "private clubs and associations shall pay property taxes", but rather personal responsibility.

If it angers you that some people have to implicitly subsidize a Union they dont agree with....then why would you demand that people that don't support or don't belong to a certain private club or church implicitly subsidize those organizations?

By the way, getting the government out of y'all's churches will make them more independent. Heck - you can even directly get involved in politics.

Churches used to be the backbone of this country. That's why the Puritans left England, to practice their religion freely. And now churches have been reduced to "private clubs" ... no better than saloons and gentlemen's clubs.

Sad.

They didn't leave for a 'tax break'.

For a non-member, a church is just that...a private club. Really no different than a Country Club or the Polo Grounds. The Yacht Club and the Polo Club do charitable events too.

Plenty of churches require payment in the form of tithes in order to vote on leadership of the club. Heck, some Synagogues charge admission on high holidays. Plenty of churches don't take anyone to be an officer of the church.

I cannot speak to synagogues as I am not Jewish.

No church that I have ever attended required any financial donation. The Bible tells Christians to tithe at 10% of their earnings, off the top. However, tithing does not have anything to do with salvation, so it is not required.

Churches shouldn't just take anyone to be an officer or elected person of authority. My church votes on deacons annually, and to even be on the ballot you have to be a member for at least 3 years. That's it. No financial bottom line necessary. There are certain standards that must be met to remain a deacon, which are established by the individual church. My dad was a deacon at my former church in Montgomery and deacons were not supposed to drink alcohol, so my dad didn't while he was serving his term. My current church doesn't have that restriction, so he has the occasional beer.

Well, OP asked, and this thread itself proves they will.

It's pretty sad.

(06-27-2015 08:38 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 10:35 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 10:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 10:10 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Like many of the other issues we face, it's just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

With our open borders, national debt exploding exponentially, and radical Islam, we are doomed.

It is a damn shame that such a small segment of our population causes such a fcking uproar when we have REAL problems afoot. I am glad this schit is over. All I will say about this is ....Queers, be very careful what you wish for. Marriage is not all that fcking great.

It's not over, not by a longshot. The gays will simply find another battle to fight, like forcing churches to perform gay marriages. You can take that to the bank, bet the house, etc.

Hide yo wife, hide yo kids, teh gays are coming for them.

Careful now, your hate and intolerance is starting to show.

(06-27-2015 11:50 AM)dfarr Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:42 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:30 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:41 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  At least you waited a day to start attacking churches.

Its not just churches, but any other type of private club. Seriously, if you want to have a private club, don't ask the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Its not an attack to say "private clubs and associations shall pay property taxes", but rather personal responsibility.

If it angers you that some people have to implicitly subsidize a Union they dont agree with....then why would you demand that people that don't support or don't belong to a certain private club or church implicitly subsidize those organizations?

By the way, getting the government out of y'all's churches will make them more independent. Heck - you can even directly get involved in politics.

Churches used to be the backbone of this country. That's why the Puritans left England, to practice their religion freely. And now churches have been reduced to "private clubs" ... no better than saloons and gentlemen's clubs.

Sad.

They didn't leave for a 'tax break'.

For a non-member, a church is just that...a private club. Really no different than a Country Club or the Polo Grounds. The Yacht Club and the Polo Club do charitable events too.

Plenty of churches require payment in the form of tithes in order to vote on leadership of the club. Heck, some Synagogues charge admission on high holidays. Plenty of churches don't take anyone to be an officer of the church.

I cannot speak to synagogues as I am not Jewish.

No church that I have ever attended required any financial donation. The Bible tells Christians to tithe at 10% of their earnings, off the top. However, tithing does not have anything to do with salvation, so it is not required.

Churches shouldn't just take anyone to be an officer or elected person of authority. My church votes on deacons annually, and to even be on the ballot you have to be a member for at least 3 years. That's it. No financial bottom line necessary. There are certain standards that must be met to remain a deacon, which are established by the individual church. My dad was a deacon at my former church in Montgomery and deacons were not supposed to drink alcohol, so my dad didn't while he was serving his term. My current church doesn't have that restriction, so he has the occasional beer.

Again, private organizations should pay their own way. From a practical perspective, that would mean simply property taxes.

Why should non-members subsidize your club or church? Why shouldn't I just declare myself a church and stop paying property taxes (and in Houston my water/sewer bill)?

No government benefits....no government influence.

(06-27-2015 10:41 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 10:28 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I really don't see the need for churches to be tax exempt anyway.

At least you waited a day to start attacking churches.

How is that an attack on churches? If they are going to hate America, at least they should be taxed.

(06-27-2015 01:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How is that an attack on churches? If they are going to hate America, at least they should be taxed.

WTF is this "hate America" crap?

(06-27-2015 12:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:50 AM)dfarr Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:42 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:30 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Its not just churches, but any other type of private club. Seriously, if you want to have a private club, don't ask the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Its not an attack to say "private clubs and associations shall pay property taxes", but rather personal responsibility.

If it angers you that some people have to implicitly subsidize a Union they dont agree with....then why would you demand that people that don't support or don't belong to a certain private club or church implicitly subsidize those organizations?

By the way, getting the government out of y'all's churches will make them more independent. Heck - you can even directly get involved in politics.

Churches used to be the backbone of this country. That's why the Puritans left England, to practice their religion freely. And now churches have been reduced to "private clubs" ... no better than saloons and gentlemen's clubs.

Sad.

They didn't leave for a 'tax break'.

For a non-member, a church is just that...a private club. Really no different than a Country Club or the Polo Grounds. The Yacht Club and the Polo Club do charitable events too.

Plenty of churches require payment in the form of tithes in order to vote on leadership of the club. Heck, some Synagogues charge admission on high holidays. Plenty of churches don't take anyone to be an officer of the church.

I cannot speak to synagogues as I am not Jewish.

No church that I have ever attended required any financial donation. The Bible tells Christians to tithe at 10% of their earnings, off the top. However, tithing does not have anything to do with salvation, so it is not required.

Churches shouldn't just take anyone to be an officer or elected person of authority. My church votes on deacons annually, and to even be on the ballot you have to be a member for at least 3 years. That's it. No financial bottom line necessary. There are certain standards that must be met to remain a deacon, which are established by the individual church. My dad was a deacon at my former church in Montgomery and deacons were not supposed to drink alcohol, so my dad didn't while he was serving his term. My current church doesn't have that restriction, so he has the occasional beer.

Again, private organizations should pay their own way. From a practical perspective, that would mean simply property taxes.

Why should non-members subsidize your club or church? Why shouldn't I just declare myself a church and stop paying property taxes (and in Houston my water/sewer bill)?

No government benefits....no government influence.

Why should any non-profit be subsidized at all then?

(06-27-2015 01:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 01:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How is that an attack on churches? If they are going to hate America, at least they should be taxed.

WTF is this "hate America" crap?

Don't you remember "Good Damn America "

(06-27-2015 02:36 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 01:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 01:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How is that an attack on churches? If they are going to hate America, at least they should be taxed.

WTF is this "hate America" crap?

Don't you remember "Good Damn America "

Oh, you mean the honorable Wright's Church of Oprah?…and Obama?