(06-26-2015 10:00 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 09:47 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Not really. Ann Arbor and Detroit are completely separate.
Saying UofM is in a pro sports town would be like saying Miami Oxford is in a pro town as it's a half an hour from Cincinnati. Or better yet LSU is in a prosports town because it is 40 minutes from NOLA.

I've spent some time in both areas (actually lived/worked in New Orleans and Baton Rouge)...and Baton Rouge is over 80 miles from New Orleans.

Downtown to downtown is 80 miles, but from most places in BR, BR and New Orleans are just a little over an hour's drive. It's a very quick distance, straight down I-10. Very similar to Tampa and Orlando in distance and time.

The other poster did have a point: New Orleans is a pro-sports town, but that doesn't stop LSU from having a huge fan base their and throughout the state.

(06-26-2015 08:48 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 08:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 03:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That was my point, and why I think Cincy isn't nearly as attractive a candidate as many seem to think. They are in a market with little growth potential.

The Cards had several attributes that screamed you were P5-ready, but because of your market you didn't get the call until the last minute.

Louisville didn't have the Reds and the Bengals. Neither does Memphis, just the NBA.

IMO, Memphis football is fatally surrounded by SEC football. Louisville had a big advantage - you are surrounded by UK, which historically didn't care about football, giving you room to grow. But how is Memphis going to grow its football beyond the city limits?

West Tennessee is like a different state. Knoxville is hundreds of miles away.

When Memphis was decent a few years back in CUSA, they were drawing 40k. When Cincinnati was unbeaten in the BE they weren't consistently selling out their 35k seat stadium.

Cincinnati is hemmed in by Miami, Ohio St., Kentucky and Indiana-and, of course, the pros.

LOL Ok I can play this game too

UK football is hemmed in by UofL football, Tenn football, and....

see how that works?

You can say it, but it doesn't make it so. UK has fans throughout Kentucky, aren't hemmed in at all, with plenty of 'space' to grow its football program. What holds it back is that UK fans prioritize basketball, not football.

UofL has done a great job of making their fan base, which also historically prioritized basketball, care more about football. UK could learn a thing or two them about that.

Cincy does face a limited-market problem. But, as you and other Bearcats fans have noted the city itself is a pretty big market, so maybe that is enough to entice the Big 12 anyway. I don't think so, but I've been wrong before.

(06-26-2015 08:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 03:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 10:15 AM)TopperCard Wrote:  Four of the previous five taken before were selected for one reason only: Market and potential TV eye balls. Only WVU was chosen ahead of Louisville to backfill the B12, and that was because they were willing to cut ties with the Big East immediately while Louisville wasn't. Louisville, on the other hand, wasn't chosen to backfill the ACC due to market size (even though it's still a Top 50 market), but for being the best overall athletic program available. If it was only about the things you listed above, Louisville would have been taken first of these six, but realignment, nowadays, is about markets and money.

That was my point, and why I think Cincy isn't nearly as attractive a candidate as many seem to think. They are in a market with little growth potential.

The Cards had several attributes that screamed you were P5-ready, but because of your market you didn't get the call until the last minute.

Louisville didn't have the Reds and the Bengals. Neither does Memphis, just the NBA.

IMO, Memphis football is fatally surrounded by SEC football. Louisville had a big advantage - you are surrounded by UK, which historically didn't care about football, giving you room to grow. But how is Memphis going to grow its football beyond the city limits?

West Tennessee is like a different state. Knoxville is hundreds of miles away.

When Memphis was decent a few years back in CUSA, they were drawing 40k. When Cincinnati was unbeaten in the BE they weren't consistently selling out their 35k seat stadium.

Cincinnati is hemmed in by Miami, Ohio St., Kentucky and Indiana-and, of course, the pros.

In fairness to your comment about consistently selling Nippert out when UC was really good/ranked in the BE...

Pre-Upgraded Nippet Stadium was a very charming old stadium and the Wrigley Field of college football as they say, but she had a few warts too:

1. it had no luxury high dollar/high revenue seating. That issue has been solved with this massive upgrade.
2. and to the point about not selling out consistently when UC was ranked and good in the BE: Nippert capacity was listed at 35k and some change, true, but the stadium wasn't designed to hold that many people comfortably. Once attendance hits around 32k the ability to use the restrooms was unbearable (they had portopotty everywhere) because Nip didn't have enough restrooms. The concessions were limited, again not enough and lines were HUGE all game for both concession and restrooms. In fact, they would run out of food before the end of the 3rd quarter a lot. Finally, the last 2k seats or so are obstructed view on the field because the first few rows of the stadium are not high enough up from the field so you have to watch the game through the sideline players/coaches.

Now with the upgrade, it sits at 40k, there are luxury boxes, loge boxes, etc. and the high dollar seating has been handled, the restroom and concession situation has been more than handled. The obstructed view seating on the field is what it is, but the point is they have dumped a bunch of money into the old girl to make the overall game experience more enjoyable. Even with our POS home conference slate now (not a lot of sexy home games in the AAC) attendance won't be an issue now, unless the program tanks and is only winning 2 or 3 games a year, then all bets are off.

(06-27-2015 06:23 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 08:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 03:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That was my point, and why I think Cincy isn't nearly as attractive a candidate as many seem to think. They are in a market with little growth potential.

The Cards had several attributes that screamed you were P5-ready, but because of your market you didn't get the call until the last minute.

Louisville didn't have the Reds and the Bengals. Neither does Memphis, just the NBA.

IMO, Memphis football is fatally surrounded by SEC football. Louisville had a big advantage - you are surrounded by UK, which historically didn't care about football, giving you room to grow. But how is Memphis going to grow its football beyond the city limits?

West Tennessee is like a different state. Knoxville is hundreds of miles away.

When Memphis was decent a few years back in CUSA, they were drawing 40k. When Cincinnati was unbeaten in the BE they weren't consistently selling out their 35k seat stadium.

Cincinnati is hemmed in by Miami, Ohio St., Kentucky and Indiana-and, of course, the pros.

In fairness to your comment about consistently selling Nippert out when UC was really good/ranked in the BE...

Pre-Upgraded Nippet Stadium was a very charming old stadium and the Wrigley Field of college football as they say, but she had a few warts too:

1. it had no luxury high dollar/high revenue seating. That issue has been solved with this massive upgrade.
2. and to the point about not selling out consistently when UC was ranked and good in the BE: Nippert capacity was listed at 35k and some change, true, but the stadium wasn't designed to hold that many people comfortably. Once attendance hits around 32k the ability to use the restrooms was unbearable (they had portopotty everywhere) because Nip didn't have enough restrooms. The concessions were limited, again not enough and lines were HUGE all game for both concession and restrooms. In fact, they would run out of food before the end of the 3rd quarter a lot. Finally, the last 2k seats or so are obstructed view on the field because the first few rows of the stadium are not high enough up from the field so you have to watch the game through the sideline players/coaches.

Now with the upgrade, it sits at 40k, there are luxury boxes, loge boxes, etc. and the high dollar seating has been handled, the restroom and concession situation has been more than handled. The obstructed view seating on the field is what it is, but the point is they have dumped a bunch of money into the old girl to make the overall game experience more enjoyable.

I'd love to see a game at Nippert someday. Very envious that you have that kind of facility while USF doesn't.

(06-26-2015 07:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Memphis football is fatally surrounded by SEC football. Louisville had a big advantage - you are surrounded by UK, which historically didn't care about football, giving you room to grow. But how is Memphis going to grow its football beyond the city limits?

The same way that TCU did when it was non-BCS and surrounded by the Big 12 (including 4 Texas members). Coach Justin Fuente (former TCU offensive coordinator) stated when he first arrived at Memphis, that he saw a similarity in the opportunity here that had existed earlier at TCU. In fact, we have certain advantages over TCU (larger alumni base, larger stadium, less competition from pro sports, etc.). It is interesting that in the early 90's when the Southwest Conference fell apart (due to the bigger schools combining in the formation of the Big 12) and Memphis was being considered as a replacement that our local paper said it would be a mistake to join a "league full of weaklings such as TCU". I strongly disagreed, but that gives an idea of far TCU has since come.

(06-27-2015 10:31 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Memphis football is fatally surrounded by SEC football. Louisville had a big advantage - you are surrounded by UK, which historically didn't care about football, giving you room to grow. But how is Memphis going to grow its football beyond the city limits?

The same way that TCU did when it was non-BCS and surrounded by the Big 12 (including 4 Texas members). Coach Justin Fuente (former TCU offensive coordinator) stated when he first arrived at Memphis, that he saw a similarity in the opportunity here that had existed earlier at TCU. In fact, we have certain advantages over TCU (larger alumni base, larger stadium, less competition from pro sports, etc.). It is interesting that in the early 90's when the Southwest Conference fell apart (due to the bigger schools combining in the formation of the Big 12) and Memphis was being considered as a replacement that our local paper said it would be a mistake to join a "league full of weaklings such as TCU". I strongly disagreed, but that gives an idea of far TCU has since come.

TCU had a huge advantage Memphis doesn't: It's in Dallas, a massive megalopolis with plenty of fans for everyone, potentially.

Memphis isn't anywhere near that scale, and they have SEC teams far closer to home than TCU had with other Big 12 schools.

(06-27-2015 11:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  TCU had a huge advantage Memphis doesn't: It's in Dallas, a massive megalopolis with plenty of fans for everyone, potentially.

Memphis isn't anywhere near that scale, and they have SEC teams far closer to home than TCU had with other Big 12 schools.

There are advantages and disadvantages at both places. I won't waste my time arguing with you - most of us know the futility of that, but feel free to take it up with Fuente. I was only relaying what he said, but recent dramatic improvement in Tiger football suggests that he just might have been right.

(06-27-2015 09:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 06:23 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 08:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Louisville didn't have the Reds and the Bengals. Neither does Memphis, just the NBA.

IMO, Memphis football is fatally surrounded by SEC football. Louisville had a big advantage - you are surrounded by UK, which historically didn't care about football, giving you room to grow. But how is Memphis going to grow its football beyond the city limits?

West Tennessee is like a different state. Knoxville is hundreds of miles away.

When Memphis was decent a few years back in CUSA, they were drawing 40k. When Cincinnati was unbeaten in the BE they weren't consistently selling out their 35k seat stadium.

Cincinnati is hemmed in by Miami, Ohio St., Kentucky and Indiana-and, of course, the pros.

In fairness to your comment about consistently selling Nippert out when UC was really good/ranked in the BE...

Pre-Upgraded Nippet Stadium was a very charming old stadium and the Wrigley Field of college football as they say, but she had a few warts too:

1. it had no luxury high dollar/high revenue seating. That issue has been solved with this massive upgrade.
2. and to the point about not selling out consistently when UC was ranked and good in the BE: Nippert capacity was listed at 35k and some change, true, but the stadium wasn't designed to hold that many people comfortably. Once attendance hits around 32k the ability to use the restrooms was unbearable (they had portopotty everywhere) because Nip didn't have enough restrooms. The concessions were limited, again not enough and lines were HUGE all game for both concession and restrooms. In fact, they would run out of food before the end of the 3rd quarter a lot. Finally, the last 2k seats or so are obstructed view on the field because the first few rows of the stadium are not high enough up from the field so you have to watch the game through the sideline players/coaches.

Now with the upgrade, it sits at 40k, there are luxury boxes, loge boxes, etc. and the high dollar seating has been handled, the restroom and concession situation has been more than handled. The obstructed view seating on the field is what it is, but the point is they have dumped a bunch of money into the old girl to make the overall game experience more enjoyable.

I'd love to see a game at Nippert someday. Very envious that you have that kind of facility while USF doesn't.

Coolest part about Nippert is that you can't even see the stadium until you are near it. It's nestled so nicely tucked right smack dab in the middle of campus literally.

Students eat lunch/sun themselves in the bleachers on nice days and run the steps for exercise and play frisbee, etc on the field. It is open and available to the entire campus, not just football.

It's not huge but it's a gem and will shine with the renovations due open this fall.

(06-27-2015 11:38 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  TCU had a huge advantage Memphis doesn't: It's in Dallas, a massive megalopolis with plenty of fans for everyone, potentially.

Memphis isn't anywhere near that scale, and they have SEC teams far closer to home than TCU had with other Big 12 schools.

There are advantages and disadvantages at both places. I won't waste my time arguing with you - most of us know the futility of that, but feel free to take it up with Fuente. I was only relaying what he said, but recent dramatic improvement in Tiger football suggests that he just might have been right.

TCU was added because they were a free agent, yet to play in the Big East. Not added because the brought the "Dallas" market. Dallas is already loaded with Big 12 fans with alliances to many schools, throw in the pro market, Mavs, Cowboys, Rangers etc. TCU has adjusted well kudos to their program.

Casual and Memphis fence sitting fans would fill their stadium with a Big 12 slate, same for Cincy. Good markets, good location, thrown in high end Basketball programs nice touch.

(06-27-2015 11:38 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(06-27-2015 11:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  TCU had a huge advantage Memphis doesn't: It's in Dallas, a massive megalopolis with plenty of fans for everyone, potentially.

Memphis isn't anywhere near that scale, and they have SEC teams far closer to home than TCU had with other Big 12 schools.

There are advantages and disadvantages at both places. I won't waste my time arguing with you - most of us know the futility of that

You start an argument with me and then declare you won't waste your time with it?

Translation: Your TCU analogy was easily dismissed and you had nothing else to say other than honorably concede, so rather than do that you took a piss and ran home.

(06-27-2015 06:23 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 08:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 03:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That was my point, and why I think Cincy isn't nearly as attractive a candidate as many seem to think. They are in a market with little growth potential.

The Cards had several attributes that screamed you were P5-ready, but because of your market you didn't get the call until the last minute.

Louisville didn't have the Reds and the Bengals. Neither does Memphis, just the NBA.

IMO, Memphis football is fatally surrounded by SEC football. Louisville had a big advantage - you are surrounded by UK, which historically didn't care about football, giving you room to grow. But how is Memphis going to grow its football beyond the city limits?

West Tennessee is like a different state. Knoxville is hundreds of miles away.

When Memphis was decent a few years back in CUSA, they were drawing 40k. When Cincinnati was unbeaten in the BE they weren't consistently selling out their 35k seat stadium.

Cincinnati is hemmed in by Miami, Ohio St., Kentucky and Indiana-and, of course, the pros.

In fairness to your comment about consistently selling Nippert out when UC was really good/ranked in the BE...

Pre-Upgraded Nippet Stadium was a very charming old stadium and the Wrigley Field of college football as they say, but she had a few warts too:

1. it had no luxury high dollar/high revenue seating. That issue has been solved with this massive upgrade.
2. and to the point about not selling out consistently when UC was ranked and good in the BE: Nippert capacity was listed at 35k and some change, true, but the stadium wasn't designed to hold that many people comfortably. Once attendance hits around 32k the ability to use the restrooms was unbearable (they had portopotty everywhere) because Nip didn't have enough restrooms. The concessions were limited, again not enough and lines were HUGE all game for both concession and restrooms. In fact, they would run out of food before the end of the 3rd quarter a lot. Finally, the last 2k seats or so are obstructed view on the field because the first few rows of the stadium are not high enough up from the field so you have to watch the game through the sideline players/coaches.

Now with the upgrade, it sits at 40k, there are luxury boxes, loge boxes, etc. and the high dollar seating has been handled, the restroom and concession situation has been more than handled. The obstructed view seating on the field is what it is, but the point is they have dumped a bunch of money into the old girl to make the overall game experience more enjoyable. Even with our POS home conference slate now (not a lot of sexy home games in the AAC) attendance won't be an issue now, unless the program tanks and is only winning 2 or 3 games a year, then all bets are off.

ECU drew pretty well in CUSA. Fresno drew pretty well in both MWC and WAC

They don't have pro sports competition. That's a real drawback and limitation to schools like Cincinnati, Houston, Tulane, Temple, San Diego St., San Jose St. and others like them.

And none of those have part of their suburbs in another state where those people will be fans of the other state's flagship. Memphis shares some of that issue.

(06-27-2015 10:31 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(06-26-2015 07:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Memphis football is fatally surrounded by SEC football. Louisville had a big advantage - you are surrounded by UK, which historically didn't care about football, giving you room to grow. But how is Memphis going to grow its football beyond the city limits?

The same way that TCU did when it was non-BCS and surrounded by the Big 12 (including 4 Texas members). Coach Justin Fuente (former TCU offensive coordinator) stated when he first arrived at Memphis, that he saw a similarity in the opportunity here that had existed earlier at TCU. In fact, we have certain advantages over TCU (larger alumni base, larger stadium, less competition from pro sports, etc.). It is interesting that in the early 90's when the Southwest Conference fell apart (due to the bigger schools combining in the formation of the Big 12) and Memphis was being considered as a replacement that our local paper said it would be a mistake to join a "league full of weaklings such as TCU". I strongly disagreed, but that gives an idea of far TCU has since come.

Not sure where you are getting your information but TCU has had success well before the BCS era. Might want to do some research before you compare the 2 programs. They came from a successful run in the SWC to a successful run in C-USA, to a successful run in MW, and are now enjoying success in the Big 12.
Memphis is not a comparable program to TCU in any way, shape, or form.

TCU has 2 NC's and a Heisman from the SWC days not to mention all kinds of recent success.
Memphis has 4-5 mediocre bowl wins in it's entire history. Spent 20 years in C-USA and never won the conference. TCU did it once and they were only there for 4 years.
While TCU was battling Boise for MW championships and BCS games Memphis was betting beat up in C-USA and lucky to even make a bowl which only happened 3 times while in C-USA.

What advantages do you really think Memphis has over TCU?

What were you referring to when you said "how far TCU has since come"?