Quote:WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. and Justice Department prosecutors are investigating whether front-office officials for the St. Louis Cardinals, one of the most successful teams in baseball over the past two decades, hacked into internal networks of a rival team to steal closely guarded information about player personnel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/sports...ports&_r=0

I knew I didn't like the Owls on the bat jersey.

I'm sure the Cardinal faithful will be here shortly with a full and complete accounting of the false allegations contained in the report.

It all make sense now...

Stay classy, St Louis.

i read this story in the Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/earl...ng_strip_6

As a Cards fan, i would be ashamed of the folks who did such a thing. It doles not sound like something Mozeliak or DeWitt would tolerate, but i know Luhnow was not popular in some corners of the Cardinal organization. It will be interesting to see the follow up stories. .

THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE! NOTHING TO SEE HERE AT ALL!

PLEASE DISPERSE AND GO ON ABOUT YOUR DAY!

(In all seriousness ... this sounds from what I'm reading locally that it might have been about a personal vendetta against Luhnow by factions of the Cardinals front office. And don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to minimize anything at this point.)

Best LANS in baseball.

Best WANS in baseball.

Best scams in baseball.

Worst hackers in baseball.

The Cardinals built that network from the ground up. Really a class organization. The Astros bought their network. No values in the ball club, probably why they got hacked. Cardinals did it the right way.

That’s acquiring sensitive personnel information The Right Way.

************

Full disclosure: Bitter Dodger fan here, enjoying filthy Schadenfreude and blatantly pilfering comments from various blogs.

(06-16-2015 12:12 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE! NOTHING TO SEE HERE AT ALL!
PLEASE DISPERSE AND GO ON ABOUT YOUR DAY!
(In all seriousness ... this sounds from what I'm reading locally that it might have been about a personal vendetta against Luhnow by factions of the Cardinals front office. And don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to minimize anything at this point.)

Luhnow's scouting and player development initiatives were clearly a key to building the Cardinals' success, but I've also read from several sources that there were some serious rifts within the Cardinals' organization. Luhnow was loved by many and hated by some. One interesting thing is that even though Luhnow was very much of the Sabermetrics/Moneyball school, he also emphasized scouting and took pretty good care of the Cardinals' scouts (unlike Drayton in Houston), and was generally well liked and supported by the scouts. As nearly as I can tell, he has done the same in Houston. I know he has made several trades that didn't make Sabermetric sense but scouts were supposedly much in favor. He has also made upgrades in the minor league operations, which is another place that Drayton pinched pennies. Luhnow's basic idea seems to be that he wants as much information as possible from as many sources as possible, including both eyeballs and stats. They do some very interesting things with player measurement and evaluation, such as paying very close attention to eyesight for hitting prospects.

Before this sounds too much like a paean to Luhnow, I'd have taken Kris Bryant instead of Appel and Tyler Kolek instead of Aiken. But the Correa/McCullers/Tucker draft was masterful, with more still to come.

Luhnow has done a fine job building up the Astros from the three 100 loss seasons with the resulting high draft choices. He also had some success with the Cardinals. But he was not universally admired. One critique was his resistance to trading prospects for established players, i.e. the "Faberge eggs" criticism. Several players he felt highly about, such as Colby Rasmus, Briet Wallace and Zach Cox, were not as highly regarded by W:alt Jocketty and Tony LaRussa. Relations with Jocketty got so bad that Bill DeWitt had to step in and fire him which alienated many others in the system. Eventually, DeWitt settled on Mozeliak as the new GM who began taking responsibilities away from Luhnow. When Luhnow left the Cards, he did take quite a few of his team with him, but also left some behind.

None of this would excuse hacking into the Astros' network, but it might explain what motivated some moron(s) to try to embarrass Luhnow by leaking his trade proposals to deadspin. Once they are identified, I hope the Cards take quick disciplinary action.

(06-16-2015 03:28 PM)NolaOwl Wrote:  Luhnow has done a fine job building up the Astros from the three 100 loss seasons with the resulting high draft choices. He also had some success with the Cardinals. But he was not universally admired. One critique was his resistance to trading prospects for established players, i.e. the "Faberge eggs" criticism. Several players he felt highly about, such as Colby Rasmus, Briet Wallace and Zach Cox, were not as highly regarded by W:alt Jocketty and Tony LaRussa. Relations with Jocketty got so bad that Bill DeWitt had to step in and fire him which alienated many others in the system. Eventually, DeWitt settled on Mozeliak as the new GM who began taking responsibilities away from Luhnow. When Luhnow left the Cards, he did take quite a few of his team with him, but also left some behind.
None of this would excuse hacking into the Astros' network, but it might explain what motivated some moron(s) to try to embarrass Luhnow by leaking his trade proposals to deadspin. Once they are identified, I hope the Cards take quick disciplinary action.

That's pretty much the same story I've heard from other sources. I think this is all about personal animosity, and not any kind of attempt by the Cardinals as an organization to gain an unfair advantage.

What's strange is that with the Astros he has been more inclined to trade prospects for more established players. In particular, he told a group of us early on that one thing he was not going to do is accumulate a bunch of 1B/DH types, and yet we have Gattis and Carter, plus Singleton in the minors. And his fascination with acquiring third basemen that don't hit (Dominguez, Moran) seems a bit strange as well. He could have solved the 3B situation easily by drafting Kris Bryant instead of Appel. And I would have taken Tyler Kolek instead of Aiken last year. But the Correa/McCullers/Tucker draft may have been about as good as anyone has had in a while.

Tom Verducci from SI talking up the "rogue employee attempting to embarrass Luhnow" angle.

"The motivation seems based more on causing public embarrassment to Houston general manager and former Cardinals executive Jeff Luhnow than on gaining any competitive leverage. It’s one thing to steal information. It’s quite another to leak that information and share it with the world, as was done last year, rather than use it surreptitiously."

“The motivation, especially having the information published, seems to have been to embarrass him,” said a source familiar with the investigation.

Said one baseball source not familiar with the investigation, “There are people with the Cardinals who think Luhnow took credit for a lot of the things St. Louis has been doing for years. It wouldn’t be surprising that any chance they would have to embarrass him, they would take it.”


http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/06/16/cardina...os-hacking

It is not just their jobs with the Cards at stake but if the FBI is involved it is investigating possible crimes. It is a pity that the Cards are involved because that is an organization that I have respected in the past.

(06-16-2015 03:28 PM)NolaOwl Wrote:  Luhnow has done a fine job building up the Astros from the three 100 loss seasons with the resulting high draft choices. He also had some success with the Cardinals. But he was not universally admired. One critique was his resistance to trading prospects for established players, i.e. the "Faberge eggs" criticism. Several players he felt highly about, such as Colby Rasmus, Briet Wallace and Zach Cox, were not as highly regarded by W:alt Jocketty and Tony LaRussa. Relations with Jocketty got so bad that Bill DeWitt had to step in and fire him which alienated many others in the system. Eventually, DeWitt settled on Mozeliak as the new GM who began taking responsibilities away from Luhnow. When Luhnow left the Cards, he did take quite a few of his team with him, but also left some behind.

None of this would excuse hacking into the Astros' network, but it might explain what motivated some moron(s) to try to embarrass Luhnow by leaking his trade proposals to deadspin. Once they are identified, I hope the Cards take quick disciplinary action.

Personally I think the proper punishment would be to send the Astros back to the NL and put the Cards in the AL.

(06-16-2015 07:04 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Personally I think the proper punishment would be to send the Astros back to the NL and put the Cards in the AL.

Yikes.

(Although I would love to see the Astros back in the NL Central.)

(06-16-2015 07:07 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 07:04 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Personally I think the proper punishment would be to send the Astros back to the NL and put the Cards in the AL.

Yikes.

(Although I would love to see the Astros back in the NL Central.)

But just think how many more Card games you could catch at the Big A!

(06-16-2015 07:04 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Personally I think the proper punishment would be to send the Astros back to the NL and put the Cards in the AL.

Perfect! I second the motion.

And send the Brewers with them. The Rangers can come to the NL Central.

Bill Bellichek is involved somehow, I'm sure.

(06-16-2015 04:14 PM)75src Wrote:  It is not just their jobs with the Cards at stake but if the FBI is involved it is investigating possible crimes. It is a pity that the Cards are involved because that is an organization that I have respected in the past.

The actions may or may not have criminal consequences. There might be problems proving up the elements of a violation and prosecutorial discretion could also be exercised. Lester Munson of ESPN has a good article on it:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...ter-munson

Regardless, the allegations are a black mark and should result in employment action if proven.

I'll meet you halfway, OCO. I'll hold back on the snide remarks, and we'll see how this plays out.