He is a fan of liberation theology so I'm not shocked

I'm pretty certain most don't even know what I just said.

(06-16-2015 05:02 PM)maximus Wrote:  He is a fan of liberation theology so I'm not shocked

I'm pretty certain most don't even know what I just said.

He's a jesuit and liberation theology/social justice are core jesuit values. I won't be surprised if in his encyclical it calls for wealthy countries to fork of money to poor countries in the name of climate change.

He can have a personal opinion on climate change but as Pope he needs to stick with religion and climate change has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine. As a Catholic I'm pretty sickened he is going in this direction and using an encyclical to add authority to his opinion.

Liberation theology = the Communist party at prayer.

(06-16-2015 05:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Liberation theology = the Communist party at prayer.

How true.

(06-16-2015 05:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Liberation theology = the Communist party at prayer.

Yup

Clearly we need more carbon in the atmosphere.

(06-16-2015 05:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 05:02 PM)maximus Wrote:  He is a fan of liberation theology so I'm not shocked

I'm pretty certain most don't even know what I just said.

He's a jesuit and liberation theology/social justice are core jesuit values. I won't be surprised if in his encyclical it calls for wealthy countries to fork of money to poor countries in the name of climate change.

He can have a personal opinion on climate change but as Pope he needs to stick with religion and climate change has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine. As a Catholic I'm pretty sickened he is going in this direction and using an encyclical to add authority to his opinion.

Me too. To the point that if it didn't cause problems in my family, I'd strongly consider walking away and becoming a Greek.

(06-16-2015 05:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Liberation theology = the Communist party at prayer.

No doubt. South America is the homeland for liberation theology. But the popes for a long time have been fans of wealth redistribution. I believe since John XXIII - definitely since Paul VI - there has been more discussions about that. I find it funny how the popes changed their tunes once the papal states were annexed by Italy and all that was left was the Vatican. When you have no skin in the game, it makes it easier to be generous with other people's property.

(06-17-2015 08:19 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 05:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 05:02 PM)maximus Wrote:  He is a fan of liberation theology so I'm not shocked

I'm pretty certain most don't even know what I just said.

He's a jesuit and liberation theology/social justice are core jesuit values. I won't be surprised if in his encyclical it calls for wealthy countries to fork of money to poor countries in the name of climate change.

He can have a personal opinion on climate change but as Pope he needs to stick with religion and climate change has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine. As a Catholic I'm pretty sickened he is going in this direction and using an encyclical to add authority to his opinion.

Me too. To the point that if it didn't cause problems in my family, I'd strongly consider walking away and becoming a Greek.

He's not speaking ex cathedra. He wouldn't dare, or it would unravel the RCC.

(06-17-2015 08:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:19 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 05:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 05:02 PM)maximus Wrote:  He is a fan of liberation theology so I'm not shocked

I'm pretty certain most don't even know what I just said.

He's a jesuit and liberation theology/social justice are core jesuit values. I won't be surprised if in his encyclical it calls for wealthy countries to fork of money to poor countries in the name of climate change.

He can have a personal opinion on climate change but as Pope he needs to stick with religion and climate change has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine. As a Catholic I'm pretty sickened he is going in this direction and using an encyclical to add authority to his opinion.

Me too. To the point that if it didn't cause problems in my family, I'd strongly consider walking away and becoming a Greek.

He's not speaking ex cathedra. He wouldn't dare, or it would unravel the RCC.

He took it way too far and stopped just short of making it doctrine. He can have an opinion, but an encyclical on a non-religious matter is beyond the pale, IMO. The next step is to peddle this crap in front of congress in September.

Scientists call for governments to combat increased demonic activity

(06-17-2015 08:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:19 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 05:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 05:02 PM)maximus Wrote:  He is a fan of liberation theology so I'm not shocked

I'm pretty certain most don't even know what I just said.

He's a jesuit and liberation theology/social justice are core jesuit values. I won't be surprised if in his encyclical it calls for wealthy countries to fork of money to poor countries in the name of climate change.

He can have a personal opinion on climate change but as Pope he needs to stick with religion and climate change has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine. As a Catholic I'm pretty sickened he is going in this direction and using an encyclical to add authority to his opinion.

Me too. To the point that if it didn't cause problems in my family, I'd strongly consider walking away and becoming a Greek.

He's not speaking ex cathedra. He wouldn't dare, or it would unravel the RCC.

He took it way too far and stopped just short of making it doctrine. He can have an opinion, but an encyclical on a non-religious matter is beyond the pale, IMO. The next step is to peddle this crap in front of congress in September.

You don't think the preservation of God's creation is a religious matter?

Hm. You can indeed disagree with the concept of man-made climate change, but I think it's a tough argument to claim that addressing the preservation of God's creation is "non-religious" and completely separate from God's Church.

(06-17-2015 01:06 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

lol

(06-17-2015 04:54 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:19 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 05:26 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  He's a jesuit and liberation theology/social justice are core jesuit values. I won't be surprised if in his encyclical it calls for wealthy countries to fork of money to poor countries in the name of climate change.

He can have a personal opinion on climate change but as Pope he needs to stick with religion and climate change has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine. As a Catholic I'm pretty sickened he is going in this direction and using an encyclical to add authority to his opinion.

Me too. To the point that if it didn't cause problems in my family, I'd strongly consider walking away and becoming a Greek.

He's not speaking ex cathedra. He wouldn't dare, or it would unravel the RCC.

He took it way too far and stopped just short of making it doctrine. He can have an opinion, but an encyclical on a non-religious matter is beyond the pale, IMO. The next step is to peddle this crap in front of congress in September.

You don't think the preservation of God's creation is a religious matter?

Hm. You can indeed disagree with the concept of man-made climate change, but I think it's a tough argument to claim that addressing the preservation of God's creation is "non-religious" and completely separate from God's Church.

What the Pope was supporting was Paganism. He elevated nature to God. He said man should renew himself with nature. No, man should renew himself with God. Nature and mankind is corrupted by sin so how do you renew yourself with the corrupted?

Look, there's nothing wrong with saying protect your environment and reduce pollution. There's something wrong and dangerous when you elevate Global Warming to something spiritual.

(06-18-2015 03:25 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 04:54 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-17-2015 08:19 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Me too. To the point that if it didn't cause problems in my family, I'd strongly consider walking away and becoming a Greek.

He's not speaking ex cathedra. He wouldn't dare, or it would unravel the RCC.

He took it way too far and stopped just short of making it doctrine. He can have an opinion, but an encyclical on a non-religious matter is beyond the pale, IMO. The next step is to peddle this crap in front of congress in September.

You don't think the preservation of God's creation is a religious matter?

Hm. You can indeed disagree with the concept of man-made climate change, but I think it's a tough argument to claim that addressing the preservation of God's creation is "non-religious" and completely separate from God's Church.

What the Pope was supporting was Paganism. He elevated nature to God. He said man should renew himself with nature. No, man should renew himself with God. Nature and mankind is corrupted by sin so how do you renew yourself with the corrupted?

Look, there's nothing wrong with saying protect your environment and reduce pollution. There's something wrong and dangerous when you elevate Global Warming to something spiritual.

That's Catholicism for you.

They just make their own rules up as they go. Essentially it's a form of idol worship - praying to Mary and Saints and what not with pointless traditions that in no way get somebody into heaven. I'd love for somebody to show men any Biblical reference which says we should pray to people or confess our sins directly to people... or ONE person on the planet somehow has a direct line to God himself and incapable of error. "X" number of Hail Mary's, "Our Father's..", Rosary Beads, etc. It's all absolute nonsense and NOT supported by scripture. I believe that in the end many people will be (and are being) led astray by the Catholic church.

(06-18-2015 03:46 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  That's Catholicism for you.

They just make their own rules up as they go. Essentially it's a form of idol worship - praying to Mary and Saints and what not with pointless traditions that in no way get somebody into heaven. I'd love for somebody to show men any Biblical reference which says we should pray to people or confess our sins directly to people... or ONE person on the planet somehow has a direct line to God himself and incapable of error. "X" number of Hail Mary's, "Our Father's..", Rosary Beads, etc. It's all absolute nonsense and NOT supported by scripture. I believe that in the end many people will be (and are being) led astray by the Catholic church.

Spot on.

Catholicism is a mixture of pagan rituals and Christianity, which is exactly what the Jews were guilty of in the OT and led them to being judged by God. The Word of God refers to it as spiritual fornication. The Jews were mixing Baal worship and other idolatry rituals in with the Law. It cost them their nation for thousands of years. Starting partly with Babylon and the 70 year exile, though the problem predates the 70 year captivity by centuries.

Not every single catholic is being led astray, but many are. Catholicism is huge.

(06-18-2015 03:46 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  That's Catholicism for you.

They just make their own rules up as they go. Essentially it's a form of idol worship - praying to Mary and Saints and what not with pointless traditions that in no way get somebody into heaven. I'd love for somebody to show men any Biblical reference which says we should pray to people or confess our sins directly to people... or ONE person on the planet somehow has a direct line to God himself and incapable of error. "X" number of Hail Mary's, "Our Father's..", Rosary Beads, etc. It's all absolute nonsense and NOT supported by scripture. I believe that in the end many people will be (and are being) led astray by the Catholic church.

Oh jeez, you're one of those. Those who have been fed misconceptions and nonsense about the Catholic Church your whole life. What a pity.

Well, let's go down the line on your baseless nonsense.

Praying to Mary and the Saints: Yes, we believe that life continues after death. We also ask for Mary and the Saints to pray for us just as you may ask your friends to pray for you. They are in full communion with God and we simply ask for their petitions. That is called "interceding" for someone. Just as you Protestants ask friends and family to pray for you (we do this as well), we ask those who lived devout Earthly lives in the service of Christ to pray for us. Try reading Revelation 5. James 5:16 commands us to "pray for one another that you may be healed."

Let's look at that whole passage while we are at it. "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." Welp, there you have it. "Confess your sins to each other." I don't blame you for missing those though, Protestants aren't too fond of the epistle of James (your hero called it the "epistle of Straw."

So let's address these "pointless traditions that in no way get somebody into Heaven." Which traditions are you referring to? Just the Catholic ones? Does your church not baptize anyone? Do you not have "baby dedications?" Every Christian church has traditions and rituals, you are simply ignorant on Catholic traditions (2 Thess 2:15 "So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.") and choose to baselessly mock them through said ignorance. Let's take baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 states that "Baptism, which corresponds to this (speaking of the Great Flood), now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." The Bible says many things save you. Twice in Matthew "perseverance" saves you. The Catholic teaching on salvation is by GRACE ALONE through faith and love. Baptism is an outward reflection of God's Grace on a human being as outlined in John 3:5 ( “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.") or 1 Corinthians 12:13 ("For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.") among several other verses. I guess baptism is just another "pointless tradition" though. If you'd like to address one of the other Catholic Sacraments, I'd be happy to provide background and biblical basis since it's glaringly obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

Now, you claimed that it's absurd for "ONE person on the planet somehow has a direct line to God himself and incapable of error." We claim that the Pope is infallible only in doctrine. He is a sinner like the rest of us. That being said, Protestants really avoid the concept of apostolic succession which is clearly outlined in the Bible (that was pieced together in AD 393 by the Catholic Church). In Matthew 16:18-19 Jesus states "And I tell you, you are Peter (which means Rock), and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This declares Peter to be the Rock upon which Christ builds his Church and gives him an incredible amount of authority and responsibility. Since Peter, there has been an unbroken chain of 266 Popes (the first 22 were martyrs mind you) that have received this same authority (THE KEYS TO HEAVEN). Peter clearly exercises his authority throughout the book of Acts. Not only that, there has been a 2000 year long unbroken chain of apostolic succession (holy orders) from the 11/12 apostles all the way until today's Priests, Bishops, etc. The chain has NEVER been broken and never will be. The Catholic Church is the only church that can claim such. Without Apostolic Succession there would be no Bible, considering the first 360 years of Christianity was perpetuated only by the Old Testament, oral traditions and teachings of the early Church Fathers, and the authority of the apostles and their successors, etc. Contrary to Protestant belief, the New Testament didn't fall out of the sky in AD 33. But, but, but Sola Scriptura. I guess Sola Scriptura only applied after AD 393 when the Catholic Church pieced together the New Testament. The previous 360 years didn't matter.

"Our Father's..", It's all absolute nonsense and NOT supported by scripture."

Do I really need to go here? LOL.

Someone is being led astray all right, it just isn't who you think it is. You can choose to follow churches created by Martin Luther or John Calvin. I'll follow the One created by Jesus Christ.

1. Disagree on praying to or speaking to souls in Heaven. Agree on individuals on Earth.

2. I believe in confessing to those I've wronged but nothing says the priest has a divine authority to ensure one's forgiveness. Of it makes you feel better go for it.

3. I take no issue with James. That's literally the first time I've heard that term for him.

4. Traditions which ARE Biblical and I agree on would be Communion and Baptisms. The beads and praying to Saints are not but again you can do as you choose.

5. I completely disagree with the Catholic view of the current Pope.

6. As far as "Our Fathers" I'm talking about the tradition of the Priest telling you how many you must do, etc, etc. That's ridiculous and not scriptural.

The power of Catholic priests to forgive sins is indeed biblical. From the Gospel of John:
After his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, "‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23).

And again in the Gospel of Matthew:
The apostles were to carry Christ’s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: "Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 18:18).

Priests in the Catholic Church are the apostles of today and therefore carry the same ability to forgive sins that those original apostles had.

https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/conf...priest.htm

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-forgiveness-of-sins

BTW Catholics do not worship Mary the Blessed Mother nor the Saints. It is a falsehood that some Protestant Churches teach about Catholicism. When a Catholic says a prayer to Mary or a Saint we are asking them to intercede on our behalf due to their special relationship with God.