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Steve1981 Online
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Post: #1281
RE: UMass Football
Kit-Cat, if you are ever bored, waged a Danial Says Rebellion on the hoops forum of UMassHoops.com title, the 'Benefits of the A10'. Cat 'n mouse and then let down the boom that with the casual and UMass fanatic fans, football is more popular comparing terrible attendance with both. Some days go a bit to far and SOB.

Quote:Agree with you until 2023-2026. If the musical chairs stop and we don't have an invite to the AAC and the MAC is available we have to take it.

Current attendance in both sports Football and Basketball shown the UMass die-hart and casual fan cares more about football. We were in the NCAA in 2014 so basketball has been bad for 4 years or less and attendance was 47,737 and average 2652 or 27.9% capacity. Football has been bad for 10 years and we had 62,312 attendance and average 10,385 or 61.1 percent of capacity.

Feel financial it not a major difference between the A10 and the MAC when all is consider. The MAC this year is better than the A10 for the most part in all sports, even men's basketball this year. They do not have some sports as women's lacrosse and have volleyball.

Most years the A10 is ahead of the MAC but not much and what is the impact to basketball?
Let's say on average 1,500 fans of course in bad years it's less and good years perhaps more.
Perhaps recruiting is a little bit harder and have to sell the university, facilities and coaching staff more.

What's the impact on football?
Don't see a significant change in attendance based on the conference.
Recruiting will be easier as we no longer have to sell the university, facilities and coach staff as hard.
Plus we now have a conference champions possibilities to sell along with a bowl game.

Never going to convince you but make you aware. Hope that we can get to the AAC like many hope. Talking about plan B by 2023-2026 and say for most conference above the A10 for BB, football matters more. Know you absolutely hate that, but silence gets you no where and you guys can fill it up, except guess when it comes to the Mullins when the team is not performing.


middle of thread of post referencing
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2019 10:24 AM by Steve1981.)
04-26-2019 10:23 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #1282
RE: UMass Football
(04-25-2019 10:32 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(04-25-2019 09:48 PM)esayem Wrote:  Wow, so many generic and soulless logos there. IMO, the “power U” as you call it, was classic. I remember seeing the font on the basketball uniforms back in the day thinking it was cool. That was back when teams really just had the classic block lettering, script, or some sort of western/circus font.

Your rivals there at UConn have an Adobe Illustrator logo now...ugh. I read somewhere that people liked the Cleveland Indians logo because it was hand drawn. All logos used to be that way, now they’re all computerized and sterile. It’s like analog vs. digital, man. :puts joint down:

The 90's Calipari era logo is known as the "Script U". Not 100% sure that's the official name though. And you're right, it's a classic. Beloved by many alums and fans, if only because of the era it represents. Speaking of "soul", rumor is it was designed by Cal himself. I believe this was also the first time UMass used "UMass" in its primary mark. Previous uniforms used an interlocking UM, a block M, or just Massachusetts (sometimes either Mass., Mass. State, or Mass. Aggie depending on the time period and sport).
[Image: UMass_logo.gif]

In 2003 UMass contracted out Phoenix to design this. I don't think this has a name, but I call it the "Staircase" because the ASS is smaller and the M is smaller than the U. I also think this was the first and only time the primary mark featured a mascot. Previous secondary marks featured Metawampe or Sam the Minuteman. But no primary marks to my knowlege.
[Image: UMASS-PRIMARY-250.gif]

The current logo first appeared on the football helmets when UMass moved up to FBS in 2012. It is officially called the "Power U". That's what our athletic dept calls it. Why? I have no idea. It was also done by Phoenix Design Works.
[Image: 113.png]

Interesting about Coach Cal. IMO, all Phoenix needed to do was add some shading and contour to the Script U logo for an update and they'd be fine. Like I said, it's iconic and unique.

The Power U is pretty boring and has no character. The newer Minuteman was okay, but looked kind of robotic; I prefer the goofy mascot version.

I looked in my '93-94 Blue Ribbon Yearbook, which features a ton of cool old logos, and the UMass logo had a Minuteman dunking a ball over the state of Massachusetts with the hoop over Amherst. Pretty slick.
04-26-2019 01:41 PM
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Steve1981 Online
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Post: #1283
RE: UMass Football
There are a few things to note in the latest updates from AD Ryan Bamford interview with beat reporter Josh Walfish from the Daily Hampshire Gazette.

From all the communications it seems clear we are planning to be independent through 2024. Never thought we go 8 years as an independent as it is a difficult route and in particular impacts recruiting.

Quote:“These changes will take us through at least the next five years,” Bamford said. “My goal is to get 17-20,000 people at McGuirk every game, and when we do that and it becomes a high demand and a low limited supply of seats, we figure out how do we grow or how do we do some things differently.”

The article points out a few things in a different context.
Quote:In addition to the physical changes to the stadium, the school is also creating several new ticketing options for the 2019 season. The addition of what the school called a “hospitality plaza” in the south end zone will help diversify the viewing options for fans. The area behind the end zone will feature a variety of food and drink options — including alcohol — as well as tables that allow fans to get closer to the action.

Bamford said he wanted to attract more alumni families to the games by giving them an area to sit and socialize in a more high-end space than the bleachers on both sidelines. The athletic director said creating those various ticketing options was important in order to bridge the gap between the wealthy donors in the Hunt Hospitality Suite and the common fans in the grandstands.

“What we wanted to do was create some different ticket and pricing options for people,” Bamford said. “We were finding that we wanted to attract more young families. ... We wanted to create different tiers and really introduce UMass football to different populations.”

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05-15-2019 08:38 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #1284
UMass Football
Smart. I like what Bamford is doing.

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05-22-2019 07:31 AM
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Post: #1285
RE: UMass Football
I like the logo with the minuteman. That was my intro to the team and I like logos that incorporate the nickname, like a tiger for example.
05-23-2019 09:05 PM
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Steve1981 Online
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Post: #1286
RE: UMass Football
Thanks panama and Bronco'14.

Bronco'14, it's been nice to see a number of MAC teams returning to the schedule: Toledo, Buffalo, EMU, Akron, NIU, and Ohio. Of course it's generally one or two teams a year, except for 2024, which has 3 MAC teams.
05-23-2019 10:20 PM
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Post: #1287
RE: UMass Football
(05-23-2019 10:20 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks panama and Bronco'14.

Bronco'14, it's been nice to see a number of MAC teams returning to the schedule: Toledo, Buffalo, EMU, Akron, NIU, and Ohio. Of course it's generally one or two teams a year, except for 2024, which has 3 MAC teams.

Eh, personally I'm still a tad annoyed you guys dissed the MAC by not wanting to be all-in, but I'm happy that we continue to have a good relationship with you guys. You guys are like a pseudo MAC team - the MAC benefits and so do you.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2019 08:51 PM by Bronco'14.)
05-24-2019 08:50 PM
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AuzGrams Offline
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Post: #1288
RE: UMass Football
Maybe they can get an alternate agreement with the new Fenway Park Classic bowl game.

UMass seems to play BYU pretty tough from what I've noticed.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 12:30 AM by AuzGrams.)
05-25-2019 12:29 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #1289
RE: UMass Football
(05-24-2019 08:50 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 10:20 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks panama and Bronco'14.

Bronco'14, it's been nice to see a number of MAC teams returning to the schedule: Toledo, Buffalo, EMU, Akron, NIU, and Ohio. Of course it's generally one or two teams a year, except for 2024, which has 3 MAC teams.

Eh, personally I'm still a tad annoyed you guys dissed the MAC by not wanting to be all-in, but I'm happy that we continue to have a good relationship with you guys. You guys are like a pseudo MAC team - the MAC benefits and so do you.

Think UMASS missed an opportunity by passing on the MAC for all sports while they built their FB program up at the FBS level. The school would have had a solid 8 game conference schedule with access to the at large bid for New Year's Day, a contract line with the bowls, and could have filled out the rest of their FB schedules with AAC teams (their dream destination) and other P5 schools in the area. For BB they could have still scheduled local A-10 foes to keep travel to a minimum and tried to get some games with regional AAC, and ACC schools. Just my opinion . Keep working on your FB facilities during your transition period until the next realignment period around 2025. 07-coffee3
05-25-2019 10:42 AM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #1290
RE: UMass Football
(05-24-2019 08:50 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Eh, personally I'm still a tad annoyed you guys dissed the MAC by not wanting to be all-in, but I'm happy that we continue to have a good relationship with you guys. You guys are like a pseudo MAC team - the MAC benefits and so do you.

(05-25-2019 10:42 AM)panite Wrote:  Think UMASS missed an opportunity by passing on the MAC for all sports while they built their FB program up at the FBS level.

Blame it on the previous AD I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
05-25-2019 11:49 AM
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zoocrew Offline
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Post: #1291
RE: UMass Football
(05-25-2019 10:42 AM)panite Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 08:50 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 10:20 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks panama and Bronco'14.

Bronco'14, it's been nice to see a number of MAC teams returning to the schedule: Toledo, Buffalo, EMU, Akron, NIU, and Ohio. Of course it's generally one or two teams a year, except for 2024, which has 3 MAC teams.

Eh, personally I'm still a tad annoyed you guys dissed the MAC by not wanting to be all-in, but I'm happy that we continue to have a good relationship with you guys. You guys are like a pseudo MAC team - the MAC benefits and so do you.

Think UMASS missed an opportunity by passing on the MAC for all sports while they built their FB program up at the FBS level. The school would have had a solid 8 game conference schedule with access to the at large bid for New Year's Day, a contract line with the bowls, and could have filled out the rest of their FB schedules with AAC teams (their dream destination) and other P5 schools in the area. For BB they could have still scheduled local A-10 foes to keep travel to a minimum and tried to get some games with regional AAC, and ACC schools. Just my opinion . Keep working on your FB facilities during your transition period until the next realignment period around 2025. 07-coffee3

True they could have set themselves up as a replacement for UConn or Temple if one of them went elsewhere.
05-25-2019 12:26 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #1292
RE: UMass Football
(05-25-2019 12:26 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  True they could have set themselves up as a replacement for UConn or Temple if one of them went elsewhere.

That kind of misses the point on why we'd eventually like to be in the AAC in the first place.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 12:29 PM by McKinney.)
05-25-2019 12:28 PM
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Post: #1293
RE: UMass Football
(05-25-2019 10:42 AM)panite Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 08:50 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 10:20 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks panama and Bronco'14.

Bronco'14, it's been nice to see a number of MAC teams returning to the schedule: Toledo, Buffalo, EMU, Akron, NIU, and Ohio. Of course it's generally one or two teams a year, except for 2024, which has 3 MAC teams.

Eh, personally I'm still a tad annoyed you guys dissed the MAC by not wanting to be all-in, but I'm happy that we continue to have a good relationship with you guys. You guys are like a pseudo MAC team - the MAC benefits and so do you.

Think UMASS missed an opportunity by passing on the MAC for all sports while they built their FB program up at the FBS level. The school would have had a solid 8 game conference schedule with access to the at large bid for New Year's Day, a contract line with the bowls, and could have filled out the rest of their FB schedules with AAC teams (their dream destination) and other P5 schools in the area. For BB they could have still scheduled local A-10 foes to keep travel to a minimum and tried to get some games with regional AAC, and ACC schools. Just my opinion . Keep working on your FB facilities during your transition period until the next realignment period around 2025. 07-coffee3

No, they actually made the right decision. The Atlantic 10 is a better basketball conference, the revenue is much better. For 2019, the A-10 collected $11.4 million in NCAA tournament revenue, the MAC $1.96 million. The A-10 also pays out $350,000 annually to each school from their TV contract.

They lose about at least a million in college football playoff revenue and they do not get the increased share of the MAC TV revenue, but they can make up the revenue with guarantee or money games in football. They also don't have to play mid-week games in football.

UMass has done a great job of scheduling. They played games at South Carolina and Georgia for $1.5 million each and both SEC schools agreed to play a home-and-home in basketball as well. They are doing the same with Rutgers and Penn State as well. Using football to improve their home basketball schedule is a smart move.

This fall they play at Rutgers for $1.3 million and Northwestern for $1.2 million. Next season at Auburn for $1.9 million. They have used Gillette Stadium to schedule home games with power conference schools, they have been able to get a four game home-and-home with BYU and somehow, they got a road game at Notre Dame. I think these guys have done a great job of scheduling and really don't need the MAC.
05-25-2019 03:46 PM
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Steve1981 Online
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Post: #1294
RE: UMass Football
(05-25-2019 03:46 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 10:42 AM)panite Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 08:50 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 10:20 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks panama and Bronco'14.

Bronco'14, it's been nice to see a number of MAC teams returning to the schedule: Toledo, Buffalo, EMU, Akron, NIU, and Ohio. Of course it's generally one or two teams a year, except for 2024, which has 3 MAC teams.

Eh, personally I'm still a tad annoyed you guys dissed the MAC by not wanting to be all-in, but I'm happy that we continue to have a good relationship with you guys. You guys are like a pseudo MAC team - the MAC benefits and so do you.

Think UMASS missed an opportunity by passing on the MAC for all sports while they built their FB program up at the FBS level. The school would have had a solid 8 game conference schedule with access to the at large bid for New Year's Day, a contract line with the bowls, and could have filled out the rest of their FB schedules with AAC teams (their dream destination) and other P5 schools in the area. For BB they could have still scheduled local A-10 foes to keep travel to a minimum and tried to get some games with regional AAC, and ACC schools. Just my opinion . Keep working on your FB facilities during your transition period until the next realignment period around 2025. 07-coffee3

No, they actually made the right decision. The Atlantic 10 is a better basketball conference, the revenue is much better. For 2019, the A-10 collected $11.4 million in NCAA tournament revenue, the MAC $1.96 million. The A-10 also pays out $350,000 annually to each school from their TV contract.

They lose about at least a million in college football playoff revenue and they do not get the increased share of the MAC TV revenue, but they can make up the revenue with guarantee or money games in football. They also don't have to play mid-week games in football.

UMass has done a great job of scheduling. They played games at South Carolina and Georgia for $1.5 million each and both SEC schools agreed to play a home-and-home in basketball as well. They are doing the same with Rutgers and Penn State as well. Using football to improve their home basketball schedule is a smart move.

This fall they play at Rutgers for $1.3 million and Northwestern for $1.2 million. Next season at Auburn for $1.9 million. They have used Gillette Stadium to schedule home games with power conference schools, they have been able to get a four game home-and-home with BYU and somehow, they got a road game at Notre Dame. I think these guys have done a great job of scheduling and really don't need the MAC.

Think both sides are right in retrospect. The timing of UMass making the NCAA dance in 2014 and the A10 had not started the feeling the effects of being raided. The A10 earned 10 NCAA credits. However the effects of being raided are now showing and there is a potential future raid when the Big East renews their contract and ESPN could push for 12 teams.

2014: 10 (Dayton 4, Saint Louis 2, St Joe's 1, VCU 1, UMass 1, GW 1)
2015: 5 (Dayton 3, VCU 1, Davidson 1)
2016: 5 (Dayton 1, VCU 2, St Joe's 2)
2017: 4 (Dayton 1, VCU 1, URI 2)
2018: 5 (URI 2, SBU 2, Davidson 1)
2019: 2 (VCU 1 and St Louis 1) .

Personally would have been happy to go all in with the MAC, but understood. However seeing the UMass BB attendance and recent fund raising two day event, gets me a bit upset that these guys drove the bus so long.

Know UMass has a huge bandwagon and when teams are doing well, the place sells out. Take hockey's recent success from just 5 league wins two years earlier to being in the NCAA Championship game. Notice hockey was #1, followed closely by football and basketball #7 in the fund raising event, UMass Gives. To be fair the Court Club strongly suggests giving after July 1st to receive the benefits of pregame and half time events in the hospitality suite, the Massachusetts Room.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=9882]


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.jpg  Umass_gives_2minutes-left-2019.JPG (Size: 108.07 KB / Downloads: 107)
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 09:33 PM by Steve1981.)
05-25-2019 08:42 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #1295
UMass Football
UMass like a lot of G5 city schools will be fine as long as they have institutional support. The cost to subsidize an FNS program and the benefit are well worth it vs. the size of the school operating budget.

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05-26-2019 08:05 AM
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Post: #1296
RE: UMass Football
(05-25-2019 03:46 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 10:42 AM)panite Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 08:50 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 10:20 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks panama and Bronco'14.

Bronco'14, it's been nice to see a number of MAC teams returning to the schedule: Toledo, Buffalo, EMU, Akron, NIU, and Ohio. Of course it's generally one or two teams a year, except for 2024, which has 3 MAC teams.

Eh, personally I'm still a tad annoyed you guys dissed the MAC by not wanting to be all-in, but I'm happy that we continue to have a good relationship with you guys. You guys are like a pseudo MAC team - the MAC benefits and so do you.

Think UMASS missed an opportunity by passing on the MAC for all sports while they built their FB program up at the FBS level. The school would have had a solid 8 game conference schedule with access to the at large bid for New Year's Day, a contract line with the bowls, and could have filled out the rest of their FB schedules with AAC teams (their dream destination) and other P5 schools in the area. For BB they could have still scheduled local A-10 foes to keep travel to a minimum and tried to get some games with regional AAC, and ACC schools. Just my opinion . Keep working on your FB facilities during your transition period until the next realignment period around 2025. 07-coffee3

No, they actually made the right decision. The Atlantic 10 is a better basketball conference, the revenue is much better. For 2019, the A-10 collected $11.4 million in NCAA tournament revenue, the MAC $1.96 million. The A-10 also pays out $350,000 annually to each school from their TV contract.

They lose about at least a million in college football playoff revenue and they do not get the increased share of the MAC TV revenue, but they can make up the revenue with guarantee or money games in football. They also don't have to play mid-week games in football.

UMass has done a great job of scheduling. They played games at South Carolina and Georgia for $1.5 million each and both SEC schools agreed to play a home-and-home in basketball as well. They are doing the same with Rutgers and Penn State as well. Using football to improve their home basketball schedule is a smart move.

This fall they play at Rutgers for $1.3 million and Northwestern for $1.2 million. Next season at Auburn for $1.9 million. They have used Gillette Stadium to schedule home games with power conference schools, they have been able to get a four game home-and-home with BYU and somehow, they got a road game at Notre Dame. I think these guys have done a great job of scheduling and really don't need the MAC.

It was the right decision at the time. However, the A10 seems to be slipping in basketball, so it may not continue to be the right decision.
05-26-2019 08:18 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #1297
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The A-10 affords them the ability to play a bunch of schools in the East that their fans and alumni recognize. Nothing wrong with that. UMass has to do UMass.

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05-26-2019 08:55 AM
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Post: #1298
RE: UMass Football
(05-26-2019 08:55 AM)panama Wrote:  The A-10 affords them the ability to play a bunch of schools in the East that their fans and alumni recognize. Nothing wrong with that. UMass has to do UMass.

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A10 is mostly a bunch of small private schools that play in gyms that would embarrass an Indiana high school. So if they are no longer playing high level basketball, there's no reason for UMass to stay.
05-26-2019 11:23 AM
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Post: #1299
RE: UMass Football
(05-26-2019 11:23 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-26-2019 08:55 AM)panama Wrote:  The A-10 affords them the ability to play a bunch of schools in the East that their fans and alumni recognize. Nothing wrong with that. UMass has to do UMass.

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A10 is mostly a bunch of small private schools that play in gyms that would embarrass an Indiana high school. So if they are no longer playing high level basketball, there's no reason for UMass to stay.

You must be thinking of the Northeast Conference. The A-10 conference has bigger basketball budgets and better attendance than the MAC. Below are the attendance averages for all schools with at least 4,000 in attendance between the MAC and the A-10 in 2017-2018:

Dayton -12,996
VCU -7,637
Richmond - 6,491
St. Louis - 6,235
Rhode Island - 6,216
Ohio - 5,597
St. Bonaventure - 4,286
Davidson - 4,276
Toledo - 4,239
George Mason - 4,087

Ohio had the largest basketball budget in 2017-2018 in the MAC at $2.98 million. That would rank last in the A-10. There can be a debate about whether UMass would be better off in the MAC because of football revenue and scheduling, but there is no debate about the better basketball league. The A-10 is the better basketball league for UMass.
05-26-2019 04:19 PM
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Post: #1300
RE: UMass Football
(05-26-2019 04:19 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(05-26-2019 11:23 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-26-2019 08:55 AM)panama Wrote:  The A-10 affords them the ability to play a bunch of schools in the East that their fans and alumni recognize. Nothing wrong with that. UMass has to do UMass.

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A10 is mostly a bunch of small private schools that play in gyms that would embarrass an Indiana high school. So if they are no longer playing high level basketball, there's no reason for UMass to stay.

You must be thinking of the Northeast Conference. The A-10 conference has bigger basketball budgets and better attendance than the MAC. Below are the attendance averages for all schools with at least 4,000 in attendance between the MAC and the A-10 in 2017-2018:

Dayton -12,996
VCU -7,637
Richmond - 6,491
St. Louis - 6,235
Rhode Island - 6,216
Ohio - 5,597
St. Bonaventure - 4,286
Davidson - 4,276
Toledo - 4,239
George Mason - 4,087

Ohio had the largest basketball budget in 2017-2018 in the MAC at $2.98 million. That would rank last in the A-10. There can be a debate about whether UMass would be better off in the MAC because of football revenue and scheduling, but there is no debate about the better basketball league. The A-10 is the better basketball league for UMass.

The gap has really narrowed though in recent years.

MAC schools can get away with smaller budgets and compete with a tight travel footprint. Also less tuition costs which inflates the budget at private schools.
05-26-2019 05:14 PM
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