(05-25-2015 10:24 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  I really think with the Bulls people really underrate how good Scottie Pippen and the combo of Horace Grant/Dennis Rodman were. When you had Rodman, Pippen, and Jordan you had the best 3 defenders in the league at their position. Perhaps the best 3 defenders in the league period.

Not to mention they added Tony Kukoc on the 2nd run, who was a matchup nightmare for almost any team. The fact Pippen lead them to an Eastern Conference Finals game 7 in 1994 in Jordan's absence is the best real world example I can use of how good that team/Pippen were without MJ. Pippen I believe was 2nd in the league in MVP voting.

I was going to point that out also. They only won 2 less games the year Jordan left to play baseball than the prior year with Jordan. The Bulls also went to 7 games with NY that eventually went to the finals and took Houston 7 games. Clearly they were still a contender without Jordan. Infact there was a very questionable call with 2 second left that would have won them that NY series.

(05-25-2015 10:31 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 10:27 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I hate Cleveland and Jame. I hope GS runs em' out of the building.

Other than how he handled a decision at 25 or 26, what is there to hate about the guy? To be me the guy is like Shaq, he could be a lot more arrogant. Quite honestly the dude takes a beating, almost like Shaq. He gets screwed quite a bit because he is "bigger" than everyone else.

I am convinced had the refs called games right, Shaq might be the GOAT of alltime. Because truth be told, the dude was fouled nearly ever possession.

Honestly it's pretty amazing how grounded and normal Lebron James actually seems when you consider his upbringing(raised by some family friends at one point) and the spotlight he has had on him since he was 14 years old.

I first read about him when he was 15 years old. The article I read said he was already the best high school player in the country as a sophomore and would eventually challenge for the greatest player ever. That's how anointed he was from a young age.

As far as Shaq. I think he was the most unique and dominate force in basketball ever. I've heard him compared to your smart college buddy that could have graduated Magna Cume Laude but choose to have fun in college and just graduate with a 3.4 type GPA instead. If the guy was focused and more serious who knows what he could have done especially with Kobe. The riff was a lot about his work habits and being caught up in things outside of basketball like movies and music.

One thing you can say about Lebron is he does seem to have the work ethic. At this point Jordan was burnt out and retired and Lebron's certainly been at it longer already. Hard to even blame Lebron for taking 2 weeks off.

If Lebron somehow wills this team to a championship over the warriors with Kyrie out or minimized I think you got to put him #1. The Warriors have been a historic team this year to this point.

(05-25-2015 09:23 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 09:13 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 08:44 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  Your also forgetting that Anderson Varejao is out for the Cavs, that was a huge loss at the time.

The bigger loss was Pau Gasol getting hurt. That allowed the Cavs to get by Chicago. Otherwise Cleveland had no one that could guard Gasol.

You would agree however that Bulls were more healthy than the Cavs tho right? They didn't even have JR Smith for game one.

No I wouldn't say that, because the Bulls were one of the most injured teams in the league. Derrick Rose had just come back before the playoffs. Jimmy Butler and Dunleavy were banged up and missed time during the year. Taj Gibson got thrown out of a game during the series against Cleveland.

(05-25-2015 10:24 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  I really think with the Bulls people really underrate how good Scottie Pippen and the combo of Horace Grant/Dennis Rodman were. When you had Rodman, Pippen, and Jordan you had the best 3 defenders in the league at their position. Perhaps the best 3 defenders in the league period.

Not to mention they added Tony Kukoc on the 2nd run, who was a matchup nightmare for almost any team. The fact Pippen lead them to an Eastern Conference Finals game 7 in 1994 in Jordan's absence is the best real world example I can use of how good that team/Pippen were without MJ. Pippen I believe was 2nd in the league in MVP voting.

You can't forget guys like Ron Harper, Bill Cartwright, Steve Kerr and Brian Williams either. Ron Harper was an outstanding defender. When Harper, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman were on the floor at the same time for Chicago; I literally thought that those 4 guys and any scrub any where else USA were the best 5 players I had ever seen. One year that crew went 72-10 and the next year they went 69-13 like it was nothing.

Rose was pretty average even before the injury this year and came back as essentially the same player. He was actually a little more productive per minute and efficient in the playoffs in fact than regular season. That's just who he is at this point.

As far as the 72 win Bulls, it certainly helped to have 6 expansion teams water down everyone else in the league over a 7 year period and fresh off adding 2 more expansion teams in 1995 and having 6 games vs 1st year expansion teams.

This was also prior to the international infusion of talent there is today of larger pool of players to pull from to supplement the talent pool. It was 5% compared to 20% international today. Heck just in the USA their are 70 million more people than 20 years ago to draw on and kids like Jordan don't grow up wanting to play baseball anymore so it's an even larger pool of talent for the same number of jobs.

The dirty secret is the NBA also helped Jordan those 2 years by moving the 3 point line up just to the outskirts of his outer range and those were the only 2 years he shot 3's well. He was back to shat 3 point shooting the 3rd championship and they were down to 50 something wins.

I think what the Warriors have done this year with 67 wins in a clearly stacked west is more impressive than winning 72 or 69 in a watered down league or having like 6 games vs direct 1st year expansion teams.

(05-25-2015 08:42 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 07:30 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 06:41 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  Probably, not. However this just proves Lebron James would take any team in the east to the NBA finals.

It certainly helps that Sefilosha got his leg broke by police, Korver got his ankle broke last game, and Horford got cheezed into getting himself kicked out a half. Carroll is also diminished and by injury as well. The Sefilosha loss was a sneaky bigger one to than most people realize. He was among their best +/- and line ups involved him and would have drawn a lot of guarding Lebron.

The Cavs probably get better defensively without Love or Kyrie on the court and I think Lebron feels less pressure to appease other star players IMO. Seems like he works better sometimes when it's just him and shooters. I also think guys like JR Smith are very underrated. He was just and 18ppg scorer and 2nd best player on a 54 win team a couple years ago.

JR Smith is a very good player, but look what Melo did with him on the Knicks? Lebron James is probably the greatest player of alltime and imo outside of maybe a year and a half when Wade was healthy has never really had a good supporting cast.

The Heat imo outside of Wade (injury prone) and Bosh (good but overrated) really had a pretty average roster.

Lebron is about to make his 5th finals in a row, pretty insane. It took a shooting clinic by the Spurs to beat him last year. Michael Jordan never faced a team as good as San Antonio imo, plus as you've said before the game is just so much different now.

Too bad Ray Allen and Battier were never any good.

(05-25-2015 04:04 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 08:42 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 07:30 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(05-25-2015 06:41 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  Probably, not. However this just proves Lebron James would take any team in the east to the NBA finals.

It certainly helps that Sefilosha got his leg broke by police, Korver got his ankle broke last game, and Horford got cheezed into getting himself kicked out a half. Carroll is also diminished and by injury as well. The Sefilosha loss was a sneaky bigger one to than most people realize. He was among their best +/- and line ups involved him and would have drawn a lot of guarding Lebron.

The Cavs probably get better defensively without Love or Kyrie on the court and I think Lebron feels less pressure to appease other star players IMO. Seems like he works better sometimes when it's just him and shooters. I also think guys like JR Smith are very underrated. He was just and 18ppg scorer and 2nd best player on a 54 win team a couple years ago.

JR Smith is a very good player, but look what Melo did with him on the Knicks? Lebron James is probably the greatest player of alltime and imo outside of maybe a year and a half when Wade was healthy has never really had a good supporting cast.

The Heat imo outside of Wade (injury prone) and Bosh (good but overrated) really had a pretty average roster.

Lebron is about to make his 5th finals in a row, pretty insane. It took a shooting clinic by the Spurs to beat him last year. Michael Jordan never faced a team as good as San Antonio imo, plus as you've said before the game is just so much different now.

Too bad Ray Allen and Battier were never any good.

They were the typical kind of role players you'd find on most any good team. You could throw Mike Miller and Mario Chalmbers in with them if you wanted as well as you are talking about your typical supporting cast kind of players. Allen was only on one of the championship teams as well and was a 11ppg 38+ year old by that point.

(05-24-2015 11:07 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 08:54 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  No way Horford should have been hit with a Flag2...no way.

Also...I think Dellavedova rolled into him on purpose.

thoughts?

Does Horford play for the Lightning or the Rangers?

The Whalers