(05-15-2015 01:19 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 01:17 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 01:16 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:50 AM)No Bull Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You know this is real simple for me. Once I see proof I'll believe. Just give me an all call. Maybe a face in the sky saying I'm here. A kid remembering something when he comes out of a coma doesn't do it. It could just as easily have been a dream.

I want some proof.

Mach. Go out in your backyard tonight. Look up at the stars. Take a hike in the nearest state park you can find, walk along the beach one evening... Think of all the people you have loved you...think of everyone you have ever loved... God is everywhere.

Applying god like qualities to things we don't fully understand is simply humans trying to rationalize our place in the universe.

no it's not

Yes, it is. (we could do this all day and not change each others mind)

What makes America great is that I get to believe mine, you get to believe yours, and no violence has to come from it.

truth. i don't believe any species has a purpose, yet there has to be a god. i suppose if we had a purpose it's to perpetuate the everlasting now. which, really is significant

(05-15-2015 01:32 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 01:19 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 01:17 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 01:16 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:50 AM)No Bull Wrote:  Mach. Go out in your backyard tonight. Look up at the stars. Take a hike in the nearest state park you can find, walk along the beach one evening... Think of all the people you have loved you...think of everyone you have ever loved... God is everywhere.

Applying god like qualities to things we don't fully understand is simply humans trying to rationalize our place in the universe.

no it's not

Yes, it is. (we could do this all day and not change each others mind)

What makes America great is that I get to believe mine, you get to believe yours, and no violence has to come from it.

truth. i don't believe any species has a purpose, yet there has to be a god. i suppose if we had a purpose it's to perpetuate the everlasting now. which, really is significant

help me out with the, "yet there has to be a god"....that makes zero sense simply b/c there does NOT have to be a god....there doesn't even have to be a creator.....

IMO, god is nothing more than a nurturing/back-to-the-bosom concept created by man to control the masses

if one chooses to have faith in that, that is their prerogative......however, this is hardly the first nde on record....

(05-15-2015 01:19 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:15 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Read this book.
Howard Storm is best known as the author of the book My Descent into Death about his near-death experience (NDE). The book was originally published in 2000, and after being noticed by author Anne Rice and supported by her, was acquired by Doubleday and re-published as a hardback book in 2005.
http://www.howardstorm.com/Book.html

http://www.amazon.com/My-Descent-Into-De...0385513763
Storm, an avowed atheist, was awaiting emergency surgery when he realized that he was at death’s door. Storm found himself out of his own body, looking down on the hospital room scene below. Next, rather than going “toward the light,” he found himself being torturously dragged to excruciating realms of darkness and death, where he was physically assaulted by monstrous beings of evil. His description of his pure terror and torture is unnerving in its utter originality and convincing detail.

Finally, drawn away from death and transported to the realm of heaven, Storm met angelic beings as well as the God of Creation. In this fascinating account, Storm tells of his “life review,” his conversation with God, even answers to age-old questions such as why the Holocaust was allowed to take place. Storm was sent back to his body with a new knowledge of the purpose of life here on earth. This book is his message of hope.

"This is a book you devour from cover to cover, and pass on to others. This is a book you will quote in your daily conversation. Storm was meant to write it and we were meant to read it."

-From the foreward by Anne Rice

There is another book that I would like to suggest.

The Case for Christ records Lee Strobel's attempt to "determine if there's credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the Son of God." The book consists primarily of interviews between Strobel (a former legal editor at the Chicago Tribune) and biblical scholars such as Bruce Metzger. Each interview is based on a simple question, concerning historical evidence (for example, "Can the Biographies of Jesus Be Trusted?"), scientific evidence, ("Does Archaeology Confirm or Contradict Jesus' Biographies?"), and "psychiatric evidence" ("Was Jesus Crazy When He Claimed to Be the Son of God?"). Together, these interviews compose a case brief defending Jesus' divinity, and urging readers to reach a verdict of their own.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Faith-Inv...KVD1VH2RBD

Thanks I will take a look at this.

I'm a fan of Strobel's. He was an atheist lawyer who was the editor of the law section of the Chicago paper. His wife became a Christian, so to better understand why he researched Christ as if trying a case. He also wrote "the case for the creator" which is trying to prove God exists.

(05-15-2015 09:12 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I'm just waiting for the resident militant atheists on the board to come in and say that he's either lying for some sort of profit, or have some medical reasoning for it.

DMT is a hell of a drug. And it floods your brain just before death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

(05-15-2015 03:39 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 09:12 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I'm just waiting for the resident militant atheists on the board to come in and say that he's either lying for some sort of profit, or have some medical reasoning for it.

DMT is a hell of a drug. And it floods your brain just before death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

I treat near death experiences like alien abductions and big foot sightings: they suddenly stop happening when the technology to document them properly is available.

Ever notice that all that conspiracy theory "sighting" stuff has reduced in frequency since everyone started carrying a camera on their phone everywhere?

Near death experiences are easy to latch on to as spiritual proof of gods or a god because no one can prove otherwise.

Anyone ever read the "book" 'The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven'?

Link

Quote:Tyndale House, a major Christian publisher, has announced that it will stop selling “The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven,” by Alex Malarkey and his father, Kevin Malarkey.

The best-selling book, first published in 2010, purports to describe what Alex experienced while he lay in a coma after a car accident when he was 6 years old. The coma lasted two months, and his injuries left him paralyzed, but the subsequent spiritual memoir – with its assuring description of “miracles, angels, and life beyond This World” – became part of a popular genre of “heavenly tourism.”

Earlier this week, Alex recanted his testimony about the afterlife. In an open letter to Christian bookstores posted on the Pulpit and Pen Web site, Alex states flatly: “I did not die. I did not go to Heaven.”

Referring to the injuries that continue to make it difficult for him to express himself, Alex writes, “Please forgive the brevity, but because of my limitations I have to keep this short. … I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to. They should read the Bible, which is enough. The Bible is the only source of truth. Anything written by man cannot be infallible.”

Atheism and progressives go hand in hand... It's so easy to disbelieve... all you brilliant young men of science...with your bullshiite.

(05-15-2015 04:33 PM)No Bull Wrote:  Atheism and progressives go hand in hand... It's so easy to disbelieve... all you brilliant young men of science...with your bullshiite.

So only christians get to be correct? You bible thumping wing nuts... with your bullshiite.

(05-15-2015 04:33 PM)No Bull Wrote:  Atheism and progressives go hand in hand... It's so easy to disbelieve... all you brilliant young men of science...with your bullshiite.

vice versa too....and we don't have to curse if'n we don't wants ta

why is harder to believe?

do you earn a badge o' courage at some point?

your take on the concept is an interesting one.....

(05-15-2015 02:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 01:19 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:15 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Read this book.
Howard Storm is best known as the author of the book My Descent into Death about his near-death experience (NDE). The book was originally published in 2000, and after being noticed by author Anne Rice and supported by her, was acquired by Doubleday and re-published as a hardback book in 2005.
http://www.howardstorm.com/Book.html

http://www.amazon.com/My-Descent-Into-De...0385513763
Storm, an avowed atheist, was awaiting emergency surgery when he realized that he was at death’s door. Storm found himself out of his own body, looking down on the hospital room scene below. Next, rather than going “toward the light,” he found himself being torturously dragged to excruciating realms of darkness and death, where he was physically assaulted by monstrous beings of evil. His description of his pure terror and torture is unnerving in its utter originality and convincing detail.

Finally, drawn away from death and transported to the realm of heaven, Storm met angelic beings as well as the God of Creation. In this fascinating account, Storm tells of his “life review,” his conversation with God, even answers to age-old questions such as why the Holocaust was allowed to take place. Storm was sent back to his body with a new knowledge of the purpose of life here on earth. This book is his message of hope.

"This is a book you devour from cover to cover, and pass on to others. This is a book you will quote in your daily conversation. Storm was meant to write it and we were meant to read it."

-From the foreward by Anne Rice

There is another book that I would like to suggest.

The Case for Christ records Lee Strobel's attempt to "determine if there's credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the Son of God." The book consists primarily of interviews between Strobel (a former legal editor at the Chicago Tribune) and biblical scholars such as Bruce Metzger. Each interview is based on a simple question, concerning historical evidence (for example, "Can the Biographies of Jesus Be Trusted?"), scientific evidence, ("Does Archaeology Confirm or Contradict Jesus' Biographies?"), and "psychiatric evidence" ("Was Jesus Crazy When He Claimed to Be the Son of God?"). Together, these interviews compose a case brief defending Jesus' divinity, and urging readers to reach a verdict of their own.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Faith-Inv...KVD1VH2RBD

Thanks I will take a look at this.

I'm a fan of Strobel's. He was an atheist lawyer who was the editor of the law section of the Chicago paper. His wife became a Christian, so to better understand why he researched Christ as if trying a case. He also wrote "the case for the creator" which is trying to prove God exists.

Another good book is

I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist by Norman L. Geisler

(05-15-2015 10:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  There is another book that I would like to suggest.

The Case for Christ records Lee Strobel's attempt to "determine if there's credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the Son of God." The book consists primarily of interviews between Strobel (a former legal editor at the Chicago Tribune) and biblical scholars such as Bruce Metzger. Each interview is based on a simple question, concerning historical evidence (for example, "Can the Biographies of Jesus Be Trusted?"), scientific evidence, ("Does Archaeology Confirm or Contradict Jesus' Biographies?"), and "psychiatric evidence" ("Was Jesus Crazy When He Claimed to Be the Son of God?"). Together, these interviews compose a case brief defending Jesus' divinity, and urging readers to reach a verdict of their own.

With all due respect (and I mean that)... such a discussion wouldn't be allowed in our courts as they are hearsay... because they are inherently unreliable and functionally proof of nothing. I'm not saying this is a court case... I am saying that to debate people's opinions about something that is simply either true or is not true would be pointless.

You may as well debate Stonehenge or the existence of Aliens. The fact is that Stonehenge was built with a purpose of some sort... and we are merely guessing at what it was... and Aliens either exist or they don't, and we once again are only guessing.

Either God exists or He doesn't. Either Jesus was His son or He wasn't... and our opinions about those facts, or the result of any debate on the topics doesn't change those facts. Let me say that more clearly... an argument that convinces 99.999% of the world that God exists doesn't MAKE him exist if he doesn't... and one that convinces the world that He DOESN'T, doesn't eliminate Him if He does.

So accept it or not... Believe it or not... but don't fool yourself into believing that a convincing argument either way = truth. I don't really seek the approval or acceptance by others as some sort of confirmation of my beliefs, because similarly, it doesn't make the untrue, true or vice versa. I am more than happy to share my opinion, but I don't expect to debate anyone about it.

(05-15-2015 04:33 PM)No Bull Wrote:  Atheism and progressives go hand in hand... It's so easy to disbelieve... all you brilliant young men of science...with your bullshiite.

The political group with the strongest association to atheism is libertarians. Progressives are the ones most likely to go the "I'm spiritual" route (whatever that means).

(05-15-2015 05:48 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 04:33 PM)No Bull Wrote:  Atheism and progressives go hand in hand... It's so easy to disbelieve... all you brilliant young men of science...with your bullshiite.

The political group with the strongest association to atheism is libertarians. Progressives are the ones most likely to go the "I'm spiritual" route (whatever that means).

Agreed, they'd like to squeeze Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. into a plain vanilla "spiritual awareness" that is marginally acceptable to everyone. I have more respect for atheists. Progressives are just atheists in denial.

(05-15-2015 10:07 AM)NIUAlum90 Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You know this is real simple for me. Once I see proof I'll believe. Just give me an all call. Maybe a face in the sky saying I'm here. A kid remembering something when he comes out of a coma doesn't do it. It could just as easily have been a dream.
I want some proof.

You will have it when you die, that's the rub.

This.

(05-15-2015 09:15 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:07 AM)NIUAlum90 Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You know this is real simple for me. Once I see proof I'll believe. Just give me an all call. Maybe a face in the sky saying I'm here. A kid remembering something when he comes out of a coma doesn't do it. It could just as easily have been a dream.
I want some proof.

You will have it when you die, that's the rub.

This.

I see nothing contradictory about disbelief in NDE and still having faith in God. In fact...I'd lean toward calling fabrics on NDE before I would the existence of God.

I still get biggest kick out watching more and more genetic engineering done each day while science continues to disavow intelligent design as a possible source of human life. Talk about the proverbial forest and the trees.

(05-16-2015 12:00 AM)Claw Wrote:  I still get biggest kick out watching more and more genetic engineering done each day while science continues to disavow intelligent design as a possible source of human life. Talk about the proverbial forest and the trees.

I really don't get the point you are trying to make here.

(05-16-2015 12:07 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(05-16-2015 12:00 AM)Claw Wrote:  I still get biggest kick out watching more and more genetic engineering done each day while science continues to disavow intelligent design as a possible source of human life. Talk about the proverbial forest and the trees.

I really don't get the point you are trying to make here.

I can understand someone not believing in "God". I don't understand someone denying that there could have been a creator especially regarding humans.

We are DOING intelligent design every day in labs around the world, but somehow it isn't possible that humans were designed. No, we had to evolve - something that cannot be replicated in a lab at all. Which is the more scientific explanation?

How far does genetic science have to go before the light bulb goes on in the scientific community? We could have been engineered. We are almost capable of doing it ourselves today. Yet science clings to creation by mathematic accident while literally building creation science day by day in labs all over the world.

Some being created the universe.

The universe didn't just spontaneously "happen".

(05-16-2015 12:24 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(05-16-2015 12:07 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(05-16-2015 12:00 AM)Claw Wrote:  I still get biggest kick out watching more and more genetic engineering done each day while science continues to disavow intelligent design as a possible source of human life. Talk about the proverbial forest and the trees.

I really don't get the point you are trying to make here.

I can understand someone not believing in "God". I don't understand someone denying that there could have been a creator especially regarding humans.

We are DOING intelligent design every day in labs around the world, but somehow it isn't possible that humans were designed. No, we had to evolve - something that cannot be replicated in a lab at all. Which is the more scientific explanation?

How far does genetic science have to go before the light bulb goes on in the scientific community? We could have been engineered. We are almost capable of doing it ourselves today. Yet science clings to creation by mathematic accident while literally building creation science day by day in labs all over the world.

Point the First:

Because humans do it every day, that must mean some being of a higher order must have done it to us too? That's not a scientific explanation. The only thing that is, is a logical fallacy.

Point the Second:

You think it's some giant conspiracy that we're out to intentionally shove god to the ground? What do scientists stand to gain from pushing, with greater than 90% support from the scientific community, a secular understanding of the world?

Point the Third:

Evolution in dog breeds since 1912 through selective breeding

Evolution of Fruit Flies over 3 decades, by controlling environments

Evolution of gonorrhea to adapt to treatment, making it untreatable in the near future

Evolution of the E. Coli strain over 100,000 generations since 1988 that is still ongoing, and successful

(I found these in 5 minutes of browsing. Stating that evolution can't be reproduced in a lab is a flat out lie)

Point the Fourth:

Mathematical accident? There are no accidents, there is no intent in evolution. All evolution is, is the adaptation to change and your surrounding. The species that does that the best has a better chance of survival. What's so hard to understand about that?

Point the Fifth:

I'm sure you can provide a reference to peer reviewed sources on "creation science day by day in labs all over the world"?

(05-16-2015 12:00 AM)Claw Wrote:  I still get biggest kick out watching more and more genetic engineering done each day while science continues to disavow intelligent design as a possible source of human life. Talk about the proverbial forest and the trees.

So something smart enough to design humans was dumb enough to leave in an appendix, leave in a tribal mindset which leads to countless wars and intellectual constructs which cause conflict like government, religion, racism, etc. So this brilliant designer is also a bit evil and incompetent as well. Got it.

(05-16-2015 06:37 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Some being created the universe.

The universe didn't just spontaneously "happen".

You presume there ever was a nothing.