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Rotating Divisions
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #1
Rotating Divisions
I made up a 4 year schedule of rotating divisions that I think works pretty well. We all know is it is impossible to preserve every important matchup annually, but I think I did a good job of at least getting the important one to 2 or 3 out of the 4 years along with the must haves being annual. Divisions are round robin along with 2 guaranteed interdivisional games. Miami and FSU anchor their divisions as they do now with teams paired off to switch divisions once every 4 years. I have switched UVA and Syracuse from the current allignment.

YEAR 1 (Default Divisional Alignment)
ATLANTIC..................COASTAL
Miami (Clemson)...........FSU (Ga Tech)
Ga Tech (FSU)............Clemson (Miami)
Va Tech (Wake)..........UVA (UNC)
UNC (UVA)..................NC State (Duke)
Duke (NC State)..........Wake (Va Tech)
Syracuse (Louisville).....BC (Pitt)
Pitt (BC).....................Louisville (Syracuse)

YEAR 2 (Clemson and UVA switch w/ GA Tech and Va Tech)
ATLANTIC....................COASTAL
Miami (Va Tech)...........FSU (Clemson)
Clemson (FSU).............Ga Tech (Duke)
UVA (NC State)............Va Tech (Miami)
UNC (Wake).................NC State (UVA)
Duke (Ga Tech)............Wake (UNC)
Syracuse (Louisville)......BC (Pitt)
Pitt (BC)......................Louisville (Syracuse)

YEAR 3 (NC State and Wake switch w/ UNC and Duke)
ATLANTIC....................COASTAL
Miami (BC)....................FSU (Pitt)
Ga Tech (UVA).............Clemson (NC State)
Va Tech (Louisville)........UVA (Ga Tech)
NC State (Clemson).......UNC (Wake)
Wake (UNC).................Duke (Syracuse)
Syracuse (Duke)...........BC (Miami)
Pitt (FSU)....................Louisville (Va Tech)

YEAR 4 (BC and Louisville switch w/ Syracuse and Pitt)
ATLANTIC....................COASTAL
Miami (Pitt)...................FSU (Ga Tech)
Ga Tech (FSU)..............Clemson (Va Tech)
Va Tech (Clemson)........UVA (UNC)
UNC (UVA)..................NC State (Duke)
Duke (NC State)...........Wake (BC)
BC (Wake)...................Syracuse (Louisville)
Louisville (Syracuse)......Pitt (Miami)

Everyone plays everyone at least 1 time in a 4 year span with other games more frequently. This could be applied under current rules, if those in charge would look at divisions as scheduling arrangments instead of stone tablets from Mt Sinai.

thoughts and critiques????
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2015 08:48 PM by solohawks.)
05-12-2015 08:15 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Rotating Divisions
Let me be sure I understand; in year 2, this line
Miami (Va Tech)...........FSU (Clemson)
means Miami plays VT and FSU, and FSU plays Miami and Clemson?

If I'm reading it right, this is close, IMO
Q: when does Syracuse play FSU?
05-12-2015 08:29 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-12-2015 08:29 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Let me be sure I understand; in year 2, this line
Miami (Va Tech)...........FSU (Clemson)
means Miami plays VT and FSU, and FSU plays Miami and Clemson?

If I'm reading it right, this is close, IMO
Q: when does Syracuse play FSU?

Yep that is exactly right

Syracuse plays FSU in year 4 when cuse flips to the coastal division.
05-12-2015 08:40 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Rotating Divisions
Can you do a full cycle? I see FSU plays GT twice as a crossover, Pitt once and Clemson once over those four years. Would FSU only play those schools or would the crossover extend to all of the teams in the other division if future schedules were extended out father?
05-13-2015 09:52 AM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-12-2015 08:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I made up a 4 year schedule of rotating divisions that I think works pretty well. We all know is it is impossible to preserve every important matchup annually, but I think I did a good job of at least getting the important one to 2 or 3 out of the 4 years along with the must haves being annual. Divisions are round robin along with 2 guaranteed interdivisional games. Miami and FSU anchor their divisions as they do now with teams paired off to switch divisions once every 4 years. I have switched UVA and Syracuse from the current allignment.

YEAR 1 (Default Divisional Alignment)
ATLANTIC..................COASTAL
Miami (Clemson)...........FSU (Ga Tech)
Ga Tech (FSU)............Clemson (Miami)
Va Tech (Wake)..........UVA (UNC)
UNC (UVA)..................NC State (Duke)
Duke (NC State)..........Wake (Va Tech)
Syracuse (Louisville).....BC (Pitt)
Pitt (BC).....................Louisville (Syracuse)

YEAR 2 (Clemson and UVA switch w/ GA Tech and Va Tech)
ATLANTIC....................COASTAL
Miami (Va Tech)...........FSU (Clemson)
Clemson (FSU).............Ga Tech (Duke)
UVA (NC State)............Va Tech (Miami)
UNC (Wake).................NC State (UVA)
Duke (Ga Tech)............Wake (UNC)
Syracuse (Louisville)......BC (Pitt)
Pitt (BC)......................Louisville (Syracuse)

YEAR 3 (NC State and Wake switch w/ UNC and Duke)
ATLANTIC....................COASTAL
Miami (BC)....................FSU (Pitt)
Ga Tech (UVA).............Clemson (NC State)
Va Tech (Louisville)........UVA (Ga Tech)
NC State (Clemson).......UNC (Wake)
Wake (UNC).................Duke (Syracuse)
Syracuse (Duke)...........BC (Miami)
Pitt (FSU)....................Louisville (Va Tech)

YEAR 4 (BC and Louisville switch w/ Syracuse and Pitt)
ATLANTIC....................COASTAL
Miami (Pitt)...................FSU (Ga Tech)
Ga Tech (FSU)..............Clemson (Va Tech)
Va Tech (Clemson)........UVA (UNC)
UNC (UVA)..................NC State (Duke)
Duke (NC State)...........Wake (BC)
BC (Wake)...................Syracuse (Louisville)
Louisville (Syracuse)......Pitt (Miami)

Everyone plays everyone at least 1 time in a 4 year span with other games more frequently. This could be applied under current rules, if those in charge would look at divisions as scheduling arrangments instead of stone tablets from Mt Sinai.

thoughts and critiques????

Solo- I am NOT sure that this works "mathematically", but I would like to see it fully 'played out' over 13 seasons. The concept is interesting because it tries to deal with the conference size and rivals'/non-rivals' need for matchups in a creative way. It has been discussed generally, but never "placed-into-a-spreadsheet", so to speak.

If you have the time to put it into a full long term spreadsheet and share it, that would be great.
05-13-2015 10:14 AM
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BornAJacket Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Rotating Divisions
8 ACC games each year, 6 division games and 2 cross division games.

I think the key to making it work would be if the 4 NC schools are happy with how often they play each other.
05-13-2015 10:18 AM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 10:18 AM)BornAJacket Wrote:  8 ACC games each year, 6 division games and 2 cross division games.

I think the key to making it work would be if the 4 NC schools are happy with how often they play each other.

Well, Jacket, it appears to me that the key is satisfying five different constituencies -- 1. Tabac Road (UNC/DUKE/NCST/WAKE); 2. Their Very Close Cousin UVA; 3. and Selfie-Football Powers FSU/Clem/VT/GT/Miami; and 4. Other BigEast Add-on Newbies Pitt/Syracuse/BC/Louisville; and 5. Invisible Elephant in the Room Notre Dame.
05-13-2015 11:00 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 09:52 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Can you do a full cycle? I see FSU plays GT twice as a crossover, Pitt once and Clemson once over those four years. Would FSU only play those schools or would the crossover extend to all of the teams in the other division if future schedules were extended out father?

It looks like this whole thing could repeat as-is every four years. It also looks like FSU would play GT 3 out of 4 years (the only year they don't play is year #3). FSU and Miami would play every year, but never be in the same division (thus preserving the fantasy of a Miami vs. FSU ACC CG).
05-13-2015 11:14 AM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-13-2015 09:52 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Can you do a full cycle? I see FSU plays GT twice as a crossover, Pitt once and Clemson once over those four years. Would FSU only play those schools or would the crossover extend to all of the teams in the other division if future schedules were extended out father?

It looks like this whole thing could repeat as-is every four years. It also looks like FSU would play GT 3 out of 4 years (the only year they don't play is year #3). FSU and Miami would play every year, but never be in the same division (thus preserving the fantasy of a Miami vs. FSU ACC CG).

I'm fine with the setup. Just didn't know if other schools would want to face FSU (or any school in the other division) more than once every 4 years. It's better than before, obvi, but not as often as 3 out of 4 years that FSU would now face GT. To make sure it's "fair", you know.
05-13-2015 11:34 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 09:52 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Can you do a full cycle? I see FSU plays GT twice as a crossover, Pitt once and Clemson once over those four years. Would FSU only play those schools or would the crossover extend to all of the teams in the other division if future schedules were extended out father?

Its a 4 year cycle so the only thing that would change from year 1 and year 5 would be home and away
05-13-2015 12:50 PM
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solohawks Offline
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RE: Rotating Divisions
Do coaches and administration value permanent divisions? I just dont understand that philosophy In the era of large conferences
05-13-2015 01:16 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 01:16 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Do coaches and administration value permanent divisions? I just dont understand that philosophy In the era of large conferences

I doubt it's the permanence they value. I think they want to have
1) a division they can win which only requires beating out 6 other teams, and
2) annual games with certain key rivals

IMO, the solution they came up with is a camel - a horse designed by a committee.
05-13-2015 02:52 PM
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solohawks Offline
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RE: Rotating Divisions
I wonder then if they would consider some form or scheduled rotation. Zipper divisions with a scheduled rotation would work very well in the acc
05-13-2015 03:13 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Rotating Divisions
I did this one a while ago. Figured I'd post in here:

The best option for scheduling is to use a unique “pod” system for scheduling. You have four groups of teams, 2 pods of 4 teams, and 2 pods of three teams. The groups of 4 are always in opposite divisions, as are the groups of 3. The groups of 3 switch “divisions” every other year, so that the divisions aren't static. Every crossover game in a year is against the teams in the group you are never with for a division.

Pods

Coast Pod___ Mid-Atlantic Pod
Wake______ Pittsburgh
NC ST______ Virginia Tech
UNC_______ Virginia (protected)
Duke_______ Syracuse

The below switch spots every year or every other year, whichever works best.

East Pod________ West Pod
Boston College__ Louisville
Georgia Tech____ Clemson
Miami__________ Florida St

The scheduling works like this.

If playing with 8 conference games

Coast and Mid-Atlantic Pods
Play each team in your pod every year, and play the three teams assigned that year from the rotating pod. Play two teams cross division one year, and then play the other two teams the next year. Or they can play one designated team each year, and play the other three teams every other year (note that Virginia and UNC would have to play every year, but the other matchups would rotate freely)

East and West Pods
Play each team in your pod every year and the four teams from the pod (Coast or Mid-Atlantic) your pod is assigned to play in rotation. Play two games cross division each year. Can either be play the three teams two out of every three years, or play one selected team every year and play the other two teams in opposite years.

To use an example from each set of pods, in this scenario, Louisville would play Clemson, Florida State and Boston College every season, and every other team every other year, or would play Clemson and Florida State every season, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Boston College two out of every three seasons, and play everyone else every other season. North Carolina would play NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, and Virginia every year, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and Boston College every other year, and Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh every third year. Virginia Tech would play Pitt, UVA, and Syracuse every year, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and Boston College every other year, and play Wake, NC St, and Duke roughly twice every three years, but UNC only once every three years (due to the UNC/UVA series, this one gets a little tricky). The beauty is each group of pods could dictate their own scheduling rules cross pod and even switch them up on occasion as needed.


If playing with 9 conference games

* I realize nine games is off the table, but this was written a couple of years ago

Coast and Mid-Atlantic Pods
Play each team in your pod every year, and play the three teams assigned that year from the rotating pod. Play three games cross division each year, playing either every team three out of every four years, or playing two pre-selected teams each year, and the other two teams every other year. Something like this:

Teams____Rival 1____ Rival 2 ____Alternate
Wake____ Pitt_______ Cuse______ uva/tech
NC ST____VaTech____ Pitt_______ uva/cuse
UNC_____ UVA______ VaTech____ pitt/cuse
Duke_____Cuse_____ UVA_______ tech/pitt
Pitt______ Wake _____ NC ST_____ unc/duke
Cuse_____ Duke_____ Wake_____ unc/state
VaTech___ NC ST____ UNC_______ wake/duke
UVA____ UNC______ Duke______ wake/state

East and West Pods
Play each team in your pod every year, and the four teams from the pod that your pod is assigned to play in rotation (Coast or Mid-Atlantic), and play all three cross division teams each year.

To use an example from each set of pods, in this scenario Louisville would play Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Boston College every season, and every other team every other season. Or North Carolina would play NC State, Duke, Wake, Virginia, and Virginia Tech every year, and every other school every other year. Again the beauty is each group of pods could dictate their own scheduling rules cross pod and even switch them up on occasion as needed, although the East/West teams have no need to change anything.


This alignment preserves rivalries, and has most everyone play everyone else at least every other season, with the only notable casualty being that in an 8 game schedule, Georgia Tech only gets to play Duke every other year as opposed to every season in terms of long standing rivalries. Not sure how that one flies with the principles involved. But even then, they get NC State and Wake Forest back on the schedule every other year for that same time period, so that's a wash, while Georgia Tech gets FSU back every year. Florida State plays its main rival every season, and its secondary rival plus its closest rival every other season. The Carolina schools all get to play each other every season again, while Syracuse and Pitt still play each other every season, as do Virginia and Virginia Tech, who all get to play the schools near them every other season. Finally every school gets to play a Florida team every year, a southern team (Clemson/Ga. Tech) every year, and play a game in either in North Carolina or Virginia/East) every year.
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2015 03:43 PM by adcorbett.)
05-13-2015 03:23 PM
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BornAJacket Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 11:00 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(05-13-2015 10:18 AM)BornAJacket Wrote:  8 ACC games each year, 6 division games and 2 cross division games.

I think the key to making it work would be if the 4 NC schools are happy with how often they play each other.

Well, Jacket, it appears to me that the key is satisfying five different constituencies -- 1. Tabac Road (UNC/DUKE/NCST/WAKE); 2. Their Very Close Cousin UVA; 3. and Selfie-Football Powers FSU/Clem/VT/GT/Miami; and 4. Other BigEast Add-on Newbies Pitt/Syracuse/BC/Louisville; and 5. Invisible Elephant in the Room Notre Dame.

maybe so, but if it don't pass muster of the #1 group the rest won't get a say...
05-13-2015 03:45 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-13-2015 09:52 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Can you do a full cycle? I see FSU plays GT twice as a crossover, Pitt once and Clemson once over those four years. Would FSU only play those schools or would the crossover extend to all of the teams in the other division if future schedules were extended out father?

It looks like this whole thing could repeat as-is every four years. It also looks like FSU would play GT 3 out of 4 years (the only year they don't play is year #3). FSU and Miami would play every year, but never be in the same division (thus preserving the fantasy of a Miami vs. FSU ACC CG).

The math is over my head, but I strongly support the premise.

Since the coaches and ADs will likely always oppose removing divisions, and north/south is off the table, this is a great solution.

Let's do this.
05-13-2015 04:00 PM
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solohawks Offline
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RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 04:00 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  
(05-13-2015 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-13-2015 09:52 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Can you do a full cycle? I see FSU plays GT twice as a crossover, Pitt once and Clemson once over those four years. Would FSU only play those schools or would the crossover extend to all of the teams in the other division if future schedules were extended out father?

It looks like this whole thing could repeat as-is every four years. It also looks like FSU would play GT 3 out of 4 years (the only year they don't play is year #3). FSU and Miami would play every year, but never be in the same division (thus preserving the fantasy of a Miami vs. FSU ACC CG).

The math is over my head, but I strongly support the premise.

Since the coaches and ADs will likely always oppose removing divisions, and north/south is off the table, this is a great solution.

Let's do this.

The only negatives would be the confusion that would arise when teams switch divisions In the eyes of fans and media. But its not like the divisions are aligned in any geographical manner or anyone has any emotional attachments to them so i dont see why anyone would mind switching divisions onnce every 4 years
05-13-2015 08:17 PM
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Post: #18
RE: Rotating Divisions
Pods are nothing more than rotating divisions. If you use pods, like the one I proposed above (doesn't have to be those exact pods, but the format) You have the same affect, but less confusion.
05-13-2015 09:18 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 01:16 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Do coaches and administration value permanent divisions? I just dont understand that philosophy In the era of large conferences

@DavidTeelatDP
They prefer stable divisions.
05-13-2015 09:19 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Rotating Divisions
(05-13-2015 02:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-13-2015 01:16 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Do coaches and administration value permanent divisions? I just dont understand that philosophy In the era of large conferences

I doubt it's the permanence they value. I think they want to have
1) a division they can win which only requires beating out 6 other teams, and
2) annual games with certain key rivals

IMO, the solution they came up with is a camel - a horse designed by a committee.

Having dynamic divisions doesn't inherently disqualify #1 and #2 from occurring.
05-14-2015 12:05 AM
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