(04-24-2015 06:06 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  That is why Memphis should be in the Big 12. They have rivalry games against Tennessee and Vanderbilt every year. They used to play against the 2 SEC teams every year which drew lots of fans to watch the games. If there is an agreement between Big 12 and SEC to play each other in the regular seasons and not in bowl games. You could have a Memphis Vs Tennessee in the last game of the season like you have with Florida/Florida State, Georgia/Georgia Tech, Clemson/South Carolina. It would reunite the old football rivalries between Memphis and Tennessee.

Problem with Memphis is they bring nothing to the table in terms of revenue-generation. They would just be a mouth to feed, eating a $30m annual share of TV and Bowl money that would come from the other teams in the conference.

(04-24-2015 07:20 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 01:16 PM)XLance Wrote:  And then there is that old question that nobody really seems to have the answer to: Would Oklahoma be able to separate from Oklahoma State? Whether it's legal, political or maybe just not publicly popular there has always been the notion that those schools could not be divided. Does anyone really know the truth?

I'm still looking for one of you to jump in and at least venture an educated guess.
The future of realignment could hinge on the answer.

Yes, I do know the truth and yes I already told you so I am not telling you again.

(04-24-2015 07:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 07:20 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 01:16 PM)XLance Wrote:  And then there is that old question that nobody really seems to have the answer to: Would Oklahoma be able to separate from Oklahoma State? Whether it's legal, political or maybe just not publicly popular there has always been the notion that those schools could not be divided. Does anyone really know the truth?

I'm still looking for one of you to jump in and at least venture an educated guess.
The future of realignment could hinge on the answer.

I wouldn't call this an educated guess - just a guess. I believe they would be able to separate, just as I believe Texas could move without Texas Tech. IMO, it would be harder for Texas to move without Baylor. It wasn't that long ago that most people believed that UT and A&M had to be connected at the hip, and we have seen how that worked out.

Baylor has no pull on anyone anymore. They don't have the Governor, Lt. Governor, and head of the senate appropriations committee like they did in 1994 or a joint interest with Texas Tech who also had the Speaker of the House and a connection with the Lt. Governor.

(04-20-2015 10:06 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  If the SEC wanted to make it interesting, they would make a play for WVU and TCU (for Dallas/FW/recruiting). Both would fit in well w/SEC. Considering that OU and OSU have made it clear they're not going to the SEC (same for Texas), you take out those two teams and what does the B12 do?

Add BYU and Colorado State?

How about we finish this, move to a P4, include the most worthy G5, and enter a 4 champs model.

SEC: Florida State, Oklahoma, E.C.U. & West Virginia
Big 10: Kansas, Virginia Tech, Connecticut, Iowa State
ACC: Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, Tulane, and Notre Dame.
PAC: Brigham Young, Kansas State, Nevada Las Vegas, Oklahoma State, Rice, T.C.U.

The Tobacco Road crowd gets rid of F.S.U. as the chief malcontent in the ACC. They gain huge markets and lose none of their footprint and gain one powerful network and arguably two of the best 4 or 5 brands in the nation (certainly the best two programs still on the board).

The SEC adds content, picks up DFW, promotes E.C.U. for which ESPN agrees to give full credit for North Carolina to the SECN, and gains a slither of what they had hoped to gain with a Virginia school.

The Big 10 gets a football brand and two basketball brands while picking up 2 AAU schools and a couple of more with potential. They also get a larger foothold in New England and New York and gain Virginia.

The PAC gets time zones and markets for the PACN and the schools they add are very respectable as a whole. And, nobody who is in the P5 now gets left out. Connecticut, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Nevada Las Vegas, and academic additions Rice and Tulane all get in. The vast majority of the board goes home happy and we just get on with football.

(04-25-2015 11:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:06 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  If the SEC wanted to make it interesting, they would make a play for WVU and TCU (for Dallas/FW/recruiting). Both would fit in well w/SEC. Considering that OU and OSU have made it clear they're not going to the SEC (same for Texas), you take out those two teams and what does the B12 do?

Add BYU and Colorado State?

How about we finish this, move to a P4, include the most worthy G5, and enter a 4 champs model.

SEC: Florida State, Oklahoma, E.C.U. & West Virginia
Big 10: Kansas, Virginia Tech, Connecticut, Iowa State
ACC: Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, Tulane, and Notre Dame.
PAC: Brigham Young, Kansas State, Nevada Las Vegas, Oklahoma State, Rice, T.C.U.

The Tobacco Road crowd gets rid of F.S.U. as the chief malcontent in the ACC. They gain huge markets and lose none of their footprint and gain one powerful network and arguably two of the best 4 or 5 brands in the nation (certainly the best two programs still on the board).

The SEC adds content, picks up DFW, promotes E.C.U. for which ESPN agrees to give full credit for North Carolina to the SECN, and gains a slither of what they had hoped to gain with a Virginia school.

The Big 10 gets a football brand and two basketball brands while picking up 2 AAU schools and a couple of more with potential. They also get a larger foothold in New England and New York and gain Virginia.

The PAC gets time zones and markets for the PACN and the schools they add are very respectable as a whole. And, nobody who is in the P5 now gets left out. Connecticut, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Nevada Las Vegas, and academic additions Rice and Tulane all get in. The vast majority of the board goes home happy and we just get on with football.

Still BYU will not get in the PAC until they play on Sundays. If BYU refuses, replace them with Boise State. A powerhouse in football and their basketball is on the rise.

(04-26-2015 02:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-25-2015 11:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:06 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  If the SEC wanted to make it interesting, they would make a play for WVU and TCU (for Dallas/FW/recruiting). Both would fit in well w/SEC. Considering that OU and OSU have made it clear they're not going to the SEC (same for Texas), you take out those two teams and what does the B12 do?

Add BYU and Colorado State?

How about we finish this, move to a P4, include the most worthy G5, and enter a 4 champs model.

SEC: Florida State, Oklahoma, E.C.U. & West Virginia
Big 10: Kansas, Virginia Tech, Connecticut, Iowa State
ACC: Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, Tulane, and Notre Dame.
PAC: Brigham Young, Kansas State, Nevada Las Vegas, Oklahoma State, Rice, T.C.U.

The Tobacco Road crowd gets rid of F.S.U. as the chief malcontent in the ACC. They gain huge markets and lose none of their footprint and gain one powerful network and arguably two of the best 4 or 5 brands in the nation (certainly the best two programs still on the board).

The SEC adds content, picks up DFW, promotes E.C.U. for which ESPN agrees to give full credit for North Carolina to the SECN, and gains a slither of what they had hoped to gain with a Virginia school.

The Big 10 gets a football brand and two basketball brands while picking up 2 AAU schools and a couple of more with potential. They also get a larger foothold in New England and New York and gain Virginia.

The PAC gets time zones and markets for the PACN and the schools they add are very respectable as a whole. And, nobody who is in the P5 now gets left out. Connecticut, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Nevada Las Vegas, and academic additions Rice and Tulane all get in. The vast majority of the board goes home happy and we just get on with football.

Still BYU will not get in the PAC until they play on Sundays. If BYU refuses, replace them with Boise State. A powerhouse in football and their basketball is on the rise.

1. I would think B.Y.U. has a better chance of getting into the PAC than Boise. The differences between B.Y.U. and the PAC can at least be compromised upon. Boise State doesn't offer what the PAC wants in the way of all sports and the academic issue is real.

2. My post above was a touch tongue in cheek. There are so many here that always speak of G5 inclusion so I thought I would give it a good effort and then illustrate what the P4 would really look like should it happen. It's not bad, but neither is it going to happen. If you check the gross revenue chart that I have linked in this thread you will see where the cutoff numbers should be for the P4 or P5. Below 60 million gross revenue things start getting dicey and you run the risk of having a school in a conference where their earnings will never allow them to keep up.

Colorado, Utah, and Washington State are below that mark but all are in the PAC where these kinds of issues, while important, are not as crucial as in the other P conferences. The chart doesn't include the privates but Boston College, Syracuse, Miami, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Duke, U.S.C., Northwestern, Baylor, T.C.U., and Notre Dame of course all make more than two of those three schools (at least by figures that are two years old). Wake might not but was close either way. UConn makes enough to be included in the P5. B.Y.U.'s earnings were around where Colorado is in the High 50's two years ago and may be more now. But that is why 60,000,000 is going to be your Mendoza line of College Football's upper division when this is over and done with and it is why I called this thread realignment by the numbers.

It is my opinion that revenue, attendance, television ratings, and market demographics, and finally geography will combine to decide how all of this plays out.

That is why the SEC will likely only consider the following school:

Texas and Oklahoma both of which are major TV ratings schools that both match or exceed the SEC's gross revenue numbers and enhance slightly the SEC's attendance numbers.

A North Carolina and Virginia school which provides large new markets although they would be a drain on our mean numbers in almost every other way.

and possible members if a companion school is needed:

Florida State as a content add with attendance numbers near our mean and revenue numbers within our range.

Clemson as a content add with attendance numbers above our mean and revenue numbers within our lower range.

Oklahoma state with revenue numbers within our range and a market penetration by which we could profit.

The Big 10's targets are essentially the same minus Oklahoma State and Clemson and with Kansas and Georgia Tech added to the mix.

The ACC has much more latitude but would want essentially the same schools (minus their own). Other potentials for them might include Cincinnati and Connecticut.

That's why we are at a present impasse.

(04-26-2015 09:51 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 02:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-25-2015 11:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:06 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  If the SEC wanted to make it interesting, they would make a play for WVU and TCU (for Dallas/FW/recruiting). Both would fit in well w/SEC. Considering that OU and OSU have made it clear they're not going to the SEC (same for Texas), you take out those two teams and what does the B12 do?

Add BYU and Colorado State?

How about we finish this, move to a P4, include the most worthy G5, and enter a 4 champs model.

SEC: Florida State, Oklahoma, E.C.U. & West Virginia
Big 10: Kansas, Virginia Tech, Connecticut, Iowa State
ACC: Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, Tulane, and Notre Dame.
PAC: Brigham Young, Kansas State, Nevada Las Vegas, Oklahoma State, Rice, T.C.U.

The Tobacco Road crowd gets rid of F.S.U. as the chief malcontent in the ACC. They gain huge markets and lose none of their footprint and gain one powerful network and arguably two of the best 4 or 5 brands in the nation (certainly the best two programs still on the board).

The SEC adds content, picks up DFW, promotes E.C.U. for which ESPN agrees to give full credit for North Carolina to the SECN, and gains a slither of what they had hoped to gain with a Virginia school.

The Big 10 gets a football brand and two basketball brands while picking up 2 AAU schools and a couple of more with potential. They also get a larger foothold in New England and New York and gain Virginia.

The PAC gets time zones and markets for the PACN and the schools they add are very respectable as a whole. And, nobody who is in the P5 now gets left out. Connecticut, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Nevada Las Vegas, and academic additions Rice and Tulane all get in. The vast majority of the board goes home happy and we just get on with football.

Still BYU will not get in the PAC until they play on Sundays. If BYU refuses, replace them with Boise State. A powerhouse in football and their basketball is on the rise.

1. I would think B.Y.U. has a better chance of getting into the PAC than Boise. The differences between B.Y.U. and the PAC can at least be compromised upon. Boise State doesn't offer what the PAC wants in the way of all sports and the academic issue is real.

2. My post above was a touch tongue in cheek. There are so many here that always speak of G5 inclusion so I thought I would give it a good effort and then illustrate what the P4 would really look like should it happen. It's not bad, but neither is it going to happen. If you check the gross revenue chart that I have linked in this thread you will see where the cutoff numbers should be for the P4 or P5. Below 60 million gross revenue things start getting dicey and you run the risk of having a school in a conference where their earnings will never allow them to keep up.

Colorado, Utah, and Washington State are below that mark but all are in the PAC where these kinds of issues, while important, are not as crucial as in the other P conferences. The chart doesn't include the privates but Boston College, Syracuse, Miami, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Duke, U.S.C., Northwestern, Baylor, T.C.U., and Notre Dame of course all make more than two of those three schools (at least by figures that are two years old). Wake might not but was close either way. UConn makes enough to be included in the P5. B.Y.U.'s earnings were around where Colorado is in the High 50's two years ago and may be more now. But that is why 60,000,000 is going to be your Mendoza line of College Football's upper division when this is over and done with and it is why I called this thread realignment by the numbers.

It is my opinion that revenue, attendance, television ratings, and market demographics, and finally geography will combine to decide how all of this plays out.

That is why the SEC will likely only consider the following school:

Texas and Oklahoma both of which are major TV ratings schools that both match or exceed the SEC's gross revenue numbers and enhance slightly the SEC's attendance numbers.

A North Carolina and Virginia school which provides large new markets although they would be a drain on our mean numbers in almost every other way.

and possible members if a companion school is needed:

Florida State as a content add with attendance numbers near our mean and revenue numbers within our range.

Clemson as a content add with attendance numbers above our mean and revenue numbers within our lower range.

Oklahoma state with revenue numbers within our range and a market penetration by which we could profit.

The Big 10's targets are essentially the same minus Oklahoma State and Clemson and with Kansas and Georgia Tech added to the mix.

The ACC has much more latitude but would want essentially the same schools (minus their own). Other potentials for them might include Cincinnati and Connecticut.

That's why we are at a present impasse.

Boise State does have their own tv rights for their home games as an agreement with the MWC to bring them back. The PAC officials praised both Boise State and San Diego State in improving on their academics that they could be ideal candidates in the PAC 12 in the future. Last year and the year before Boise State rised above other P5 schools in making a profit. With them selling their rights for home games to ESPN and others? Boise is not in the hole like some other schools overall of all of their sports. Some P5 schools are in the hole no matter the tv rights. Schools like Vanderbilt and some of the PAC 12 and ACC athletic departments are in the negative for all sports. It will take some time for the schools to get out of the hole. It is really important to tighten up the geography of the footprint of the conferences so that you can sell tickets and get more fans in the seats. You just can't count on the tv money alone to help.

(04-26-2015 06:23 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 09:51 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 02:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-25-2015 11:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:06 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  If the SEC wanted to make it interesting, they would make a play for WVU and TCU (for Dallas/FW/recruiting). Both would fit in well w/SEC. Considering that OU and OSU have made it clear they're not going to the SEC (same for Texas), you take out those two teams and what does the B12 do?

Add BYU and Colorado State?

How about we finish this, move to a P4, include the most worthy G5, and enter a 4 champs model.

SEC: Florida State, Oklahoma, E.C.U. & West Virginia
Big 10: Kansas, Virginia Tech, Connecticut, Iowa State
ACC: Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, Tulane, and Notre Dame.
PAC: Brigham Young, Kansas State, Nevada Las Vegas, Oklahoma State, Rice, T.C.U.

The Tobacco Road crowd gets rid of F.S.U. as the chief malcontent in the ACC. They gain huge markets and lose none of their footprint and gain one powerful network and arguably two of the best 4 or 5 brands in the nation (certainly the best two programs still on the board).

The SEC adds content, picks up DFW, promotes E.C.U. for which ESPN agrees to give full credit for North Carolina to the SECN, and gains a slither of what they had hoped to gain with a Virginia school.

The Big 10 gets a football brand and two basketball brands while picking up 2 AAU schools and a couple of more with potential. They also get a larger foothold in New England and New York and gain Virginia.

The PAC gets time zones and markets for the PACN and the schools they add are very respectable as a whole. And, nobody who is in the P5 now gets left out. Connecticut, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Nevada Las Vegas, and academic additions Rice and Tulane all get in. The vast majority of the board goes home happy and we just get on with football.

Still BYU will not get in the PAC until they play on Sundays. If BYU refuses, replace them with Boise State. A powerhouse in football and their basketball is on the rise.

1. I would think B.Y.U. has a better chance of getting into the PAC than Boise. The differences between B.Y.U. and the PAC can at least be compromised upon. Boise State doesn't offer what the PAC wants in the way of all sports and the academic issue is real.

2. My post above was a touch tongue in cheek. There are so many here that always speak of G5 inclusion so I thought I would give it a good effort and then illustrate what the P4 would really look like should it happen. It's not bad, but neither is it going to happen. If you check the gross revenue chart that I have linked in this thread you will see where the cutoff numbers should be for the P4 or P5. Below 60 million gross revenue things start getting dicey and you run the risk of having a school in a conference where their earnings will never allow them to keep up.

Colorado, Utah, and Washington State are below that mark but all are in the PAC where these kinds of issues, while important, are not as crucial as in the other P conferences. The chart doesn't include the privates but Boston College, Syracuse, Miami, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Duke, U.S.C., Northwestern, Baylor, T.C.U., and Notre Dame of course all make more than two of those three schools (at least by figures that are two years old). Wake might not but was close either way. UConn makes enough to be included in the P5. B.Y.U.'s earnings were around where Colorado is in the High 50's two years ago and may be more now. But that is why 60,000,000 is going to be your Mendoza line of College Football's upper division when this is over and done with and it is why I called this thread realignment by the numbers.

It is my opinion that revenue, attendance, television ratings, and market demographics, and finally geography will combine to decide how all of this plays out.

That is why the SEC will likely only consider the following school:

Texas and Oklahoma both of which are major TV ratings schools that both match or exceed the SEC's gross revenue numbers and enhance slightly the SEC's attendance numbers.

A North Carolina and Virginia school which provides large new markets although they would be a drain on our mean numbers in almost every other way.

and possible members if a companion school is needed:

Florida State as a content add with attendance numbers near our mean and revenue numbers within our range.

Clemson as a content add with attendance numbers above our mean and revenue numbers within our lower range.

Oklahoma state with revenue numbers within our range and a market penetration by which we could profit.

The Big 10's targets are essentially the same minus Oklahoma State and Clemson and with Kansas and Georgia Tech added to the mix.

The ACC has much more latitude but would want essentially the same schools (minus their own). Other potentials for them might include Cincinnati and Connecticut.

That's why we are at a present impasse.

Boise State does have their own tv rights for their home games as an agreement with the MWC to bring them back. The PAC officials praised both Boise State and San Diego State in improving on their academics that they could be ideal candidates in the PAC 12 in the future. Last year and the year before Boise State rised above other P5 schools in making a profit. With them selling their rights for home games to ESPN and others? Boise is not in the hole like some other schools overall of all of their sports. Some P5 schools are in the hole no matter the tv rights. Schools like Vanderbilt and some of the PAC 12 and ACC athletic departments are in the negative for all sports. It will take some time for the schools to get out of the hole. It is really important to tighten up the geography of the footprint of the conferences so that you can sell tickets and get more fans in the seats. You just can't count on the tv money alone to help.

No, the PAC did no such thing. Speaking to a San Diego audience, the PAC commissioner refrained from criticizing the local school in public. He went on to say that SDSU and Boise would be "on the list" of schools the PAC would consider in the future. That list presumably includes every other school in the Pacific or Mountain time zones, plus the schools they would actually want, which are in the Central time zone.

The P5 conferences taken as a whole have every school they need or want already. Further realignment within the P5 may or may not happen largely based on whether they individually or collectively decide that P4 is better than P5. If they do decide that (and I don't believe they will), then the question becomes how will the ACC and Big 12 schools ultimately be divided among the remaining conferences. Will one of those two essentially be the survivor, by adding the prime targets from the other, or will the fourth conference basically just be the leftovers after the P3 have claimed all the prizes?

I think we stay at five conferences and four CFP spots for quite a while, if for no other reason than it makes the season more interesting. The game of musical chairs is only interesting if there is at least one more player than there are chairs. That's where we are now with the CFP. Does that mean there will be a lot of controversy about who gets selected? Absolutely. That's what makes it good theater. Why give that up?

(04-27-2015 10:14 AM)ken d Wrote:  The P5 conferences taken as a whole have every school they need or want already. Further realignment within the P5 may or may not happen largely based on whether they individually or collectively decide that P4 is better than P5. If they do decide that (and I don't believe they will), then the question becomes how will the ACC and Big 12 schools ultimately be divided among the remaining conferences. Will one of those two essentially be the survivor, by adding the prime targets from the other, or will the fourth conference basically just be the leftovers after the P3 have claimed all the prizes?

I think we stay at five conferences and four CFP spots for quite a while, if for no other reason than it makes the season more interesting. The game of musical chairs is only interesting if there is at least one more player than there are chairs. That's where we are now with the CFP. Does that mean there will be a lot of controversy about who gets selected? Absolutely. That's what makes it good theater. Why give that up?

Immediate realignment depends on the belief, in the face of facts, that GORs are worthless, or on the irrational belief that several schools will make a different decision than they just did in the last 2 or 3 years or the idea that a Big 12 without a ccg is at a disadvantage getting into the playoffs and thinks expansion is worth it to reduce that disadvantage. So two beliefs that don't make much sense and one that flies in the face of the Big 12's history where ccgs have hurt several times, but not helped. Or the final theory that ESPN and/or Fox have changed their mind and want to consolidate the conferences and increase their bargaining power vs. the networks.

When we are talking near or beyond the expiration date of the GORs, it requires economic changes (certainly possible) or the acceptance of Scott's idea that they do need to consolidate and that actual consolidation is better than simply doing a joint TV contract.

Here's a few more "JUST BY THE NUMBERS" to chew on:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...rks-050715

Take 547.3 million divided by half for ESPN's share and that's 273.65 million divided by 15 shares equals about 18.243 million per school payout. Not too bad.

I'll repost this here:

What are the most valuable teams in the Big 12? Or should I say, how would one value the Big 12 from top to bottom?

According to USA Today and a matter of pure revenue the list would go like this:

1. Texas - $161M
2. Oklahoma - $129.2M
3. Oklahoma State - $117.8M
4. Kansas - $97.6M

5. West Virginia - $77.6M
6. Texas Tech - $76.7M
7. Kansas State - $72.9M
8. Iowa State - $68.1M

Baylor and TCU apparently didn't report, but it's probably safe to assume they are somewhere in the middle.

I find it fascinating that OSU makes close to the amount OU makes. In fact, they are #11 overall in earnings nationally. Kansas is strong here as well.

The others are about the same...decent amount of revenue, but small markets probably keep the revenue down. ISU rounds out the bottom at 48th nationally which isn't that bad really given their utter lack of exposure and other weaknesses.

I find the revenue comparison interesting because it gives us a glimpse at the relative potential of a program. The more money a program makes, the more money there is to potentially be made by the league at large. It points directly to fan support.

My suggestion would be to go hard after the top 4 here....UT, OU, OSU, and KU. Then I would look hard at ISU and WVU and be done with this nonsense.

-----------------------

Break it down into 4 divisions of 5

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

Play 1 or 2 cross division rivals in addition to the 4 division games and rotate the rest. 4 team playoff to determine the conference champion.

(05-08-2015 02:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Here's a few more "JUST BY THE NUMBERS" to chew on:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...rks-050715

Take 547.3 million divided by half for ESPN's share and that's 273.65 million divided by 15 shares equals about 18.243 million per school payout. Not too bad.

How on earth is the NFL Network worth $1.16B? They don't even show live games that can't be watched at the same time on other networks. Yes I like catching the reruns of the out of market preseason games, but there is no need to watch that "network" during the rest of the year.

I guess I'll resurrect this thread in light of our recent discussion. I haven't read the entire thread as most if not all of it was posted before I joined the site, but I did read much of it to get the high points. Forgive me if I leave out any important details that have already been established.

I've thought for a while now that both the Big 12 and the ACC were living on borrowed time. A conference network for either league would be very expensive and the profit margins probably wouldn't be terribly high. Many of the pieces in either league are more profitable in other leagues. ESPN is now dealing with a serious threat from FOX for content of college sports. To a lesser degree ESPN is threatened also by NBC and others for overall content which I think makes their current grip on college athletics even more important to maintain.

I can see ESPN buying into the PAC 12 Network as opposed to starting an ACC Network because the potential for return is much greater. As JR has pointed out, the ACCN would mostly be a competitor to the SECN and who does that really benefit other than the ACC? No one. The PAC 12 Network by contrast has much great potential to grow with better management.

With that said, I still don't see OU and UT heading for the PAC because their value in that league is limited as opposed to the SEC and the B1G that would also love to have them. Same for KU.

I want to mention that I once had a very brief Twitter conversation with Cecil Hurt in which he said the SEC was going to bide its time and then pick apart the Big 12. He later deleted those tweets shortly thereafter, I think, because he didn't want to be seen as starting rumors.

My guess is that the SEC will take whatever they want from the Big 12 in one fell swoop.

I'd like to see Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State be added. All would be new markets or increased penetrations of existing markets. 3 new AAU schools as well. I'm thinking this would happen near the end of the GOR.

I think the ACC will eventually fall as well although they may linger on for a longer period of time due to a common culture.

I think the SEC should really consider 24 in order to grab as many markets as possible. If ACC schools become available then this is what I would like to see: Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, and Pittsburgh. That's 4 more AAU schools, 3 new large markets, and some great national brands.

West: Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State
Central: Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
South: Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky
Coastal: South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Pittsburgh

While I think Southern branding is an overall benefit for the conference, I don't think adding a few outside the region would detract from that. The country is becoming ever more uniform while the SEC is really the only league to maintain a common regional identity. All the others have branched out and I don't think that's a bad thing if the league wants to increase its academic clout and expand its base to become a more nationally watched league.

ESPN will benefit from having sole ownership of the most dynamic league. While they could also increase their bottom line by buying into the PAC 12 Network and securing 1st tier rights of a larger B1G, their bread and butter lies in the SEC. They have to protect that product as much as possible and protection means insurance. Adding more brands and markets is the best insurance you can get in this game.

The PAC could also benefit by adding some new markets of their own.

Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston would secure broad coverage in TX despite not having the Longhorns. Throw in Oklahoma State and the PAC 12 secures a great presence in 2 very strong growth markets.

The B1G benefits as well from adding Virginia Tech, NC State, and Georgia Tech to broaden their exposure in the South. Syracuse and Boston College add new markets as well while Notre Dame adds some fantastic brand power.

West: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern
Central: Illinois, Notre Dame, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State
East: Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Syracuse, Boston College
South: Georgia Tech, NC State, Virginia Tech, Maryland, Rutgers

(04-19-2015 07:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Here's where things stand for the SEC:
School Nat# / Attendance / Total Gross Revenue
3. Alabama / 101,534 / $143,776,550
6. Florida / 85,834 / $130,011,244
8. Louisiana St / 104,909 / $117,457,398
10. Tennessee / 95,584 / $111,579,779
13. Auburn / 87,451 / $103,680,609
14. Arkansas / 66,521 / $ 99,770,840
16. Georgia / 92,746 / $ 98,120,889
19. Kentucky / 57,572 / $ 95,720,724
21. Texas A&M / 105,123 / $ 93,957,906
25. South Car. / 82,401 / $ 90,484,422
35. Missouri / 65,285 / $ 76,306,889
36. Mississippi / 61,547 / $ 73,390,050
49. Miss State / 61,127 / $ 57,362,224

Stats provided by USA Today on Revenues and the Rankings Nationally among other Public Universities.

Most Profitable Football Conferences / figures given in millions / 2000-2013
1. SEC: $4,078.81
2. B1G: $2,870.89
3. XII: $1,574.40
4. P12: $1,311.98
5. ACC: $1,008.39

Data provided by Nerd Wallet

Based on the Public Schools Revenue data for 2014 the mean for the Big 10 was: $99,908,815. That was tops. The SEC's mean was $99,355,348 for second. The Big 12 was third in mean. The PAC and ACC are really close. The top half of the PAC earns more but the bottom half of the ACC earns more than the PAC.

The Mean attendance for the SEC in 2014-5 was the nations best: 78,706 up roughly 3,206 from last year. The second best attendance average belonged to the Big 10 which dropped significantly due to Rutgers and Maryland to 65,430.



**********************************************************************

If the SEC wants to expand and wants to find schools that enhance their existing numbers (or at least don't hurt them) then here are our targets:

1. Texas / 93,332 / $165,691,486
7. Oklahoma / 89,343 / $123,805,661

Income hurts the average, but isn't bad / Attendance would drag us down / but they do add an in with DFW and a new state:

22. Okla. St. / 54,032 / $ 93,664,337

Markets would help our bottom line:

28. Virginia / 36,906 / $ 84,402,710
30. U.N.C. / 54,500 / $ 82,792,342
40. Va Tech / 61,983 / $ 70,030,484
43. N.C. St. / 55,414 / $ 67,481,639

Content would add some value:

24. Fl. St. / 81,805 / $ 91,382,441

Might add some market value under the right conditions:

33. W.V.U. / 59,161 / $ 77,706,698


So if you ask me about different realignment scenarios for the SEC options are relatively limited for schools that add to the bottom line in revenue and attendance.

Texas and Oklahoma would do that for us.

Oklahoma State would detract from the mean revenue of the Publics, and would detract from the mean attendance numbers, but would add markets.

North Carolina or N.C. State add to the market value of the conference but either would detract from the conference revenue mean (well as they stand now but that would go up once in the conference) and from the attendance mean.

Virginia or Virginia Tech would add to the market value but would also detract from the conference means. Virginia Tech less so in attendance and Virginia less so in revenue production.

West Virginia could hold some market value if needed as a substitute for #16.

Florida State would add value but more minimally than some of the others as a content addition. They are above the mean on attendance (78,706) but below the mean in revenue. ($99,355,348 for the publics. Vandy's 2014 numbers aren't available that I can find for revenue but I did find their 2014-5 attendance).

http://www.sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...n-14-years

http://www.thesportseconomist.com/2015/0...n-ratings/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2...ge-sports/

NOTE*** Some new information:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...venue-club

(12-17-2015 10:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-19-2015 07:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Here's where things stand for the SEC:
School Nat# / Attendance / Total Gross Revenue
3. Alabama / 101,534 / $143,776,550
6. Florida / 85,834 / $130,011,244
8. Louisiana St / 104,909 / $117,457,398
10. Tennessee / 95,584 / $111,579,779
13. Auburn / 87,451 / $103,680,609
14. Arkansas / 66,521 / $ 99,770,840
16. Georgia / 92,746 / $ 98,120,889
19. Kentucky / 57,572 / $ 95,720,724
21. Texas A&M / 105,123 / $ 93,957,906
25. South Car. / 82,401 / $ 90,484,422
35. Missouri / 65,285 / $ 76,306,889
36. Mississippi / 61,547 / $ 73,390,050
49. Miss State / 61,127 / $ 57,362,224

NOTE*** Some new information:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...venue-club

$100 MILLION REVENUE CLUB (2014-15)
PROGRAM ATHLETIC REVENUE CONFERENCE
Texas $179.6 million Big 12
Ohio State $170.9 million Big Ten
Alabama $150.6 million SEC
LSU $138.9 million SEC
Oklahoma $135.7 million Big 12
Michigan $132.3 million Big Ten
Florida $130.8 million SEC
Penn State $127.9 million Big Ten
Auburn $126.6 million SEC
Wisconsin $125.8 million Big Ten
Tennessee $121.8 million SEC
Notre Dame $121.3 million --
Florida State $121.3 million ACC
Kentucky $116.5 million SEC
Arkansas $116.2 million SEC
Georgia $116.2 million SEC
South Carolina $113.2 million SEC
Michigan State $113.0 million Big Ten
[b]Texas A&M $110.0 million SEC[/b]
Stanford $109.7 million Pac-12
Iowa $107.4 million Big Ten
Baylor $106.1 million Big 12
USC $105.9 million Pac-12
Minnesota $105.6 million Big Ten
Louisville $104.3 million ACC
Nebraska $103.8 million Big Ten
Washington $103.5 million Pac-12
Kansas $103.3 million Big 12

(12-17-2015 10:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  South Carolina $113.2 million SEC

USC $105.9 million Pac-12

Good lord, I never realized this.

Great resource JR

It's nice being a member of the club.

Bump for comparisons.