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Max Power Offline
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Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
Can he win? No, but I really like him, and hopefully he can change the conversation.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new...e-20150429
Quote:Many years ago I pitched a magazine editor on a story about Bernie Sanders, then a congressman from Vermont, who'd agreed to something extraordinary – he agreed to let me, a reporter, stick next to him without restrictions over the course of a month in congress.

"People need to know how this place works. It's absurd," he'd said. (Bernie often uses the word absurd, his Brooklyn roots coming through in his pronunciation – ob-zert.)

Bernie wasn't quite so famous at the time and the editor scratched his head. "Bernie Sanders," he said. "That's the one who cares, right?"

"Right, that's the guy," I said.

I got the go-ahead and the resulting story was a wild journey through the tortuous bureaucratic maze of our national legislature. I didn't write this at the time, but I was struck every day by what a strange and interesting figure Sanders was.

Many of the battles he brought me along to witness, he lost. And no normal politician would be comfortable with the optics of bringing a Rolling Stone reporter to a Rules Committee hearing.

But Sanders genuinely, sincerely, does not care about optics. He is the rarest of Washington animals, a completely honest person. If he's motivated by anything other than a desire to use his influence to protect people who can't protect themselves, I've never seen it. Bernie Sanders is the kind of person who goes to bed at night thinking about how to increase the heating-oil aid program for the poor.

This is why his entrance into the 2016 presidential race is a great thing and not a mere footnote to the inevitable coronation of Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee. If the press is smart enough to grasp it, his entrance into the race makes for a profound storyline that could force all of us to ask some very uncomfortable questions.

Here's the thing: Sanders is a politician whose power base is derived almost entirely from the people of the state of Vermont, where he is personally known to a surprisingly enormous percentage of voters.

His chief opponents in the race to the White House, meanwhile, derive their power primarily from corporate and financial interests. That doesn't make them bad people or even bad candidates necessarily, but it's a fact that the Beltway-media cognoscenti who decide these things make access to money the primary factor in determining whether or not a presidential aspirant is "viable" or "credible." Here's how the Wall Street Journal put it in their story about Sanders (emphasis mine):

It is unclear how much money Mr. Sanders expects to raise, or what he thinks he needs to run a credible race. Mr. Sanders raised about $7 million for his last re-election in Vermont, a small state. Sums needed to run nationally are far larger.

The Washington/national press has trained all of us to worry about these questions of financing on behalf of candidates even at such an early stage of a race as this.

In this manner we're conditioned to believe that the candidate who has the early assent of a handful of executives on Wall Street and in Hollywood and Silicon Valley is the "serious" politician, while the one who is merely the favorite of large numbers of human beings is an irritating novelty act whose only possible goal could be to cut into the numbers of the real players.

Sanders offers an implicit challenge to the current system of national electoral politics. With rare exceptions, campaign season is a time when the backroom favorites of financial interests are marketed to the population. Weighed down by highly regressive policy intentions, these candidates need huge laboratories of focus groups and image consultants to guide them as they grope around for a few lines they can use to sell themselves to regular working people.

Sanders on the other hand has no constituency among the monied crowd. "Billionaires do not flock to my campaign," he quipped. So what his race is about is the reverse of the usual process: he'll be marketing the interests of regular people to the gatekeeping Washington press, in the hope that they will give his ideas a fair shot.

It's a little-known fact, but we reporters could successfully sell Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or any other populist candidate as a serious contender for the White House if we wanted to. Hell, we told Americans it was okay to vote for George Bush, a man who moves his lips when he reads.

But the lapdog mentality is deeply ingrained and most Beltway scribes prefer to wait for a signal from above before they agree to take anyone not sitting atop a mountain of cash seriously.

Thus this whole question of "seriousness" – which will dominate coverage of the Sanders campaign – should really be read as a profound indictment of our political system, which is now so openly an oligarchy that any politician who doesn't have the blessing of the bosses is marginalized before he or she steps into the ring.

I remember the first time I was sold on Bernie Sanders as a politician. He was in his congressional office and he was ranting about the fact that many of the manufacturing and financial companies who asked him and other members of congress for tax breaks and aid were also in the business of moving American jobs overseas to places like China.

Sanders spent years trying to drum up support for a simple measure that would force any company that came to Washington asking for handouts to promise they wouldn't turn around and ship jobs to China or India.

That didn't seem like a lot to ask, but his fellow members treated him like he was asking for a repeal of the free enterprise system. This issue drove Sanders crazy. Again showing his Brooklyn roots, Bernie gets genuinely mad about these things. While some pols are kept up at night worrying about the future profitability of gazillionaire banks, Sanders seethes over the many obvious wrongs that get smoothed over and covered up at his place of work.

That saltiness, I'm almost sure of it, is what drove him into this race. He just can't sit by and watch the things that go on, go on. That's not who he is.

When I first met Bernie Sanders, I'd just spent over a decade living in formerly communist Russia. The word "socialist" therefore had highly negative connotations for me, to the point where I didn't even like to say it out loud.

But Bernie Sanders is not Bukharin or Trotsky. His concept of "Democratic Socialism" as I've come to understand it over the years is that an elected government should occasionally step in and offer an objection or two toward our progress to undisguised oligarchy. Or, as in the case of not giving tax breaks to companies who move factories overseas, our government should at least not finance the disappearance of the middle class.

Maybe that does qualify as radical and unserious politics in our day and age. If that's the case, we should at least admit how much trouble we're in.

Congratulations, Bernie. Good luck and give 'em hell.
04-30-2015 10:40 AM
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Policiious Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
He will absolutely add to the political conversation and push Hillary to take a stand on issues she may not want to. Besides serving 2 terms in the US Senate, Bernie Sanders was an 8 term Congressman and the Mayor of Burlington, VT. So he has background in terms of what it takes to make a city run effectively
05-01-2015 01:19 PM
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Huskie_Jon Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
It figures you two would support him.
05-01-2015 02:14 PM
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klake87 Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
So you two want the u.s. to embrace socialism?
05-01-2015 05:25 PM
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NIU05 Online
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
Older than Hillary and a SOCIALIST! 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao
05-01-2015 05:31 PM
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Policiious Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-01-2015 05:25 PM)klake87 Wrote:  So you two want the u.s. to embrace socialism?

Socialistic Capitalism Beats the hell out of robber barron facism that rules America. it works quite well for Germany , Japan, South Korea, Scandinavia. Not sure I would support Bernie but he will make the race interesting
05-02-2015 12:21 AM
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Policiious Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-01-2015 05:31 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  Older than Hillary and a SOCIALIST! 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao

How old were Bob Dole and Grumpy McCain when they ran for Prez; well into their 70's as I recall.
05-02-2015 12:22 AM
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Max Power Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, which is mainstream in Europe and most first world nations. The only actual socialism he advocates is in health care, where he wants single payer. In other respects he's just advocating for a stronger welfare state.
05-02-2015 12:17 PM
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Max Power Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
Washington (CNN)Bernie Sanders' nascent presidential campaign announced Friday that it raised more than $1.5 million in its first 24 hours, a number that far outpaces what Republican presidential hopefuls posted in their first day.

Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont who caucuses with Democrats, kicked off his dark horse campaign for the Democratic nomination on Thursday with an email to supporters and a press conference outside the U.S. Capitol. Since then, more than 100,000 people signed up for the campaign and 35,000 people donated money, according to a campaign press release.

The average donation was $43.54.

Sanders' 24-hour fundraising haul puts him ahead of what every currently declared Republican presidential hopeful posted in their first day.

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul's campaign announced that it had raised $800,000 a day in. Texas Sen. Ted Cruz's campaign raised $1 million in the first 24-hours of its existence. And Florida Sen. Marco Rubio's campaign raised $1.25 million in its first day.
05-02-2015 03:38 PM
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klake87 Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-02-2015 12:21 AM)Policiious Wrote:  
(05-01-2015 05:25 PM)klake87 Wrote:  So you two want the u.s. to embrace socialism?

Socialistic Capitalism Beats the hell out of robber barron facism that rules America. it works quite well for Germany , Japan, South Korea, Scandinavia. Not sure I would support Bernie but he will make the race interesting

What event in your life did the government stop you from doing?
05-03-2015 10:40 AM
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Dog Fan Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-01-2015 05:25 PM)klake87 Wrote:  So you two want the u.s. to embrace socialism?

I don't think there was ever any doubt of that. Maybe even further left of socialism.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 08:09 AM by Dog Fan.)
05-04-2015 08:08 AM
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Max Power Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
When they hear the word "socialism" Americans unfortunately think of Leninism or Stalinism ie the government taking over all the businesses and running everything from DC, but that's not the European style "Democratic Socialism" that Bernie is advocating, and it's going to be up to him to educate the electorate. He just wants to increase aid to the poor, tax the rich, break up the Wall Street banks, take money out of politics so the billionaires don't control the politicians and expand Medicare so it covers everybody. Of course it's pretty much impossible, and so I don't really have any hope for him. Republicans are good at scaring people. In 2010 they convinced everybody Obamacare had death panels and was going to kill your grandma and last fall they convinced everybody was going to get Ebola because of Obama. If Bernie got the nom they would bring out old Soviet images and just scare everybody with that.

One of my favorite bumper stickers is "Don't like socialism? Get off the road!"
05-04-2015 09:01 AM
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Huskie_Jon Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-04-2015 09:01 AM)Max Power Wrote:  When they hear the word "socialism" Americans unfortunately think of Leninism or Stalinism ie the government taking over all the businesses and running everything from DC, but that's not the European style "Democratic Socialism" that Bernie is advocating, and it's going to be up to him to educate the electorate. He just wants to increase aid to the poor, tax the rich, break up the Wall Street banks, take money out of politics so the billionaires don't control the politicians and expand Medicare so it covers everybody. Of course it's pretty much impossible, and so I don't really have any hope for him. Republicans are good at scaring people. In 2010 they convinced everybody Obamacare had death panels and was going to kill your grandma and last fall they convinced everybody was going to get Ebola because of Obama. If Bernie got the nom they would bring out old Soviet images and just scare everybody with that.

One of my favorite bumper stickers is "Don't like socialism? Get off the road!"

Sure! Uncle Bernie's socialism will be much better than all the other forms of socialism that have led to economic collapse. 01-wingedeagle

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

― Margaret Thatcher
05-04-2015 10:50 AM
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Dog Fan Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-04-2015 09:01 AM)Max Power Wrote:  When they hear the word "socialism" Americans unfortunately think of Leninism or Stalinism ie the government taking over all the businesses and running everything from DC, but that's not the European style "Democratic Socialism" that Bernie is advocating, and it's going to be up to him to educate the electorate. He just wants to increase aid to the poor, tax the rich, break up the Wall Street banks, take money out of politics so the billionaires don't control the politicians and expand Medicare so it covers everybody. Of course it's pretty much impossible, and so I don't really have any hope for him. Republicans are good at scaring people. In 2010 they convinced everybody Obamacare had death panels and was going to kill your grandma and last fall they convinced everybody was going to get Ebola because of Obama. If Bernie got the nom they would bring out old Soviet images and just scare everybody with that.

One of my favorite bumper stickers is "Don't like socialism? Get off the road!"

Yep, this is the socialism I understand....whether you want to call it "democratic" or not makes no difference to me.

I have long advocated taking the money out of politics, but I have a simple method. In my mind, giving money to a politician to influence what you want is a conflict of interest. My simple solution, ban all corporate and individual "contributions" to a politician. Let those turkeys use their own money or take out a loan. No one told them to run except their greed and lust for power. Make giving money to a politician punishable with a jail sentence. Oops, there goes all the influence! But, it will never happen. The politicians will never allow the spigots into their pockets to dry up.

Same with crooks like Alderman Ed Burke, whose firm represents clients seeking tax reductions.....thereby reducing the revenue of the employer who pays his salary. Can we all say blatant conflict of interest? To me, almost every damn politician violates the principle of conflict of interest and should be imprisoned.
05-04-2015 10:54 AM
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Policiious Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-04-2015 10:50 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 09:01 AM)Max Power Wrote:  When they hear the word "socialism" Americans unfortunately think of Leninism or Stalinism ie the government taking over all the businesses and running everything from DC, but that's not the European style "Democratic Socialism" that Bernie is advocating, and it's going to be up to him to educate the electorate. He just wants to increase aid to the poor, tax the rich, break up the Wall Street banks, take money out of politics so the billionaires don't control the politicians and expand Medicare so it covers everybody. Of course it's pretty much impossible, and so I don't really have any hope for him. Republicans are good at scaring people. In 2010 they convinced everybody Obamacare had death panels and was going to kill your grandma and last fall they convinced everybody was going to get Ebola because of Obama. If Bernie got the nom they would bring out old Soviet images and just scare everybody with that.

One of my favorite bumper stickers is "Don't like socialism? Get off the road!"

Sure! Uncle Bernie's socialism will be much better than all the other forms of socialism that have led to economic collapse. :winged

The 2 biggest American economic collapses happened while Cons were in the White House (Hoover & Bush), due to a lack of goverment enforcing anti trust laws and having any effective regulation of capitalism. Tax payers got stuck with the Billions needed to bail out failed banks in the 4th quarter of 2008.
05-04-2015 11:14 AM
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Max Power Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-04-2015 10:50 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 09:01 AM)Max Power Wrote:  When they hear the word "socialism" Americans unfortunately think of Leninism or Stalinism ie the government taking over all the businesses and running everything from DC, but that's not the European style "Democratic Socialism" that Bernie is advocating, and it's going to be up to him to educate the electorate. He just wants to increase aid to the poor, tax the rich, break up the Wall Street banks, take money out of politics so the billionaires don't control the politicians and expand Medicare so it covers everybody. Of course it's pretty much impossible, and so I don't really have any hope for him. Republicans are good at scaring people. In 2010 they convinced everybody Obamacare had death panels and was going to kill your grandma and last fall they convinced everybody was going to get Ebola because of Obama. If Bernie got the nom they would bring out old Soviet images and just scare everybody with that.

One of my favorite bumper stickers is "Don't like socialism? Get off the road!"

Sure! Uncle Bernie's socialism will be much better than all the other forms of socialism that have led to economic collapse. 01-wingedeagle

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

― Margaret Thatcher

So has Thatcher's Britain "run out of money" yet?

Dog Fan Wrote:Yep, this is the socialism I understand....whether you want to call it "democratic" or not makes no difference to me.

It's really not socialism at all. Socialism is common control of the means of production. Taxing profits and redistributing them is technically not even socialism. We've had welfare in some form or another in the US for over a century. And we've had marginal tax rates as high as 90% under Eisenhower. In a historical context, Bernie's proposals aren't all that radical, with the exception of Medicare for all, which isn't even radical for first world nations.
05-04-2015 01:41 PM
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Turner4Heisman Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-04-2015 01:41 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 10:50 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 09:01 AM)Max Power Wrote:  When they hear the word "socialism" Americans unfortunately think of Leninism or Stalinism ie the government taking over all the businesses and running everything from DC, but that's not the European style "Democratic Socialism" that Bernie is advocating, and it's going to be up to him to educate the electorate. He just wants to increase aid to the poor, tax the rich, break up the Wall Street banks, take money out of politics so the billionaires don't control the politicians and expand Medicare so it covers everybody. Of course it's pretty much impossible, and so I don't really have any hope for him. Republicans are good at scaring people. In 2010 they convinced everybody Obamacare had death panels and was going to kill your grandma and last fall they convinced everybody was going to get Ebola because of Obama. If Bernie got the nom they would bring out old Soviet images and just scare everybody with that.

One of my favorite bumper stickers is "Don't like socialism? Get off the road!"

Sure! Uncle Bernie's socialism will be much better than all the other forms of socialism that have led to economic collapse. 01-wingedeagle

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

― Margaret Thatcher

So has Thatcher's Britain "run out of money" yet?

Dog Fan Wrote:Yep, this is the socialism I understand....whether you want to call it "democratic" or not makes no difference to me.

It's really not socialism at all. Socialism is common control of the means of production. Taxing profits and redistributing them is technically not even socialism. We've had welfare in some form or another in the US for over a century. And we've had marginal tax rates as high as 90% under Eisenhower. In a historical context, Bernie's proposals aren't all that radical, with the exception of Medicare for all, which isn't even radical for first world nations.

and who exactly are you redistributing the profits to, that someone else worked for?
05-04-2015 01:59 PM
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Max Power Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
The poor and working class in the form of health care, shelter, food, education and earned income tax credits. Yes those Wall Street execs with ten million dollar parachutes really earned every penny didn't they?
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 03:13 PM by Max Power.)
05-04-2015 03:12 PM
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Turner4Heisman Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-04-2015 03:12 PM)Max Power Wrote:  The poor and working class in the form of health care, shelter, food, education and earned income tax credits. Yes those Wall Street execs with ten million dollar parachutes really earned every penny didn't they?

so just to clarify are you in favor of raising your own personal taxes, or are you just concerned with giving others money away?

I am not saying their incomes are justified or not justified, I just do not understand how you personally can claim what they have or have not 'earned'.

And where is that line then of who has not 'earned' their own incomes and should in fact give it to someone else?
05-04-2015 03:16 PM
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BobL Offline
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RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?
05-04-2015 04:00 PM
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