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Big Day for St John's on Monday
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
This year will be a challenge for St. Johns, no doubt. However, it is important for Mullin to get his players and his philosophy ingrained in the program from the start. We saw that last year with Marquette, as Buzz Williams' departure not only saw certain players leave the program (Todd Mayo, Deonte Burton, John Dawson), leaving only 8 players on most game days, but it was a dramatic shift in style of play and coaching philosophy. In the long run, it was worth it (we got a top recruiting class and and an actual bench this season), but last year was a struggle to watch and get excited.
08-11-2015 05:01 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
I agree with you. The one difference it feels between what Marquette did and what Mullin has done is Mullin has brought in a lot of stop gap 1 year players.

The key though is absolutely going to be can Mullin bring in a top 15 class like what Wojo has done. That's the key.
08-11-2015 05:16 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
Well the 2016 class not off to a great start for St Johns- Mustapha Heron- who everyone thought because of what folks were saying is the mighty slice would be a lock to go to St John's- committed to Auburn today...

Really makes you wonder if Rawle Alkins isn't going as well- as the thought was that both would go there. Alkins being stalked(err, recruited) by Calipari.
08-16-2015 01:41 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(04-22-2015 12:06 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  
(04-22-2015 10:06 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I've said on here that Mullin has done a great job with what he's got- that he's done more in a month at St John's than Lavin did in his entire time there. this year is going to be brutal for St John's. They have Jordan, Obekpa, and that's about it. It's why I think it's such a pipedream to get Diallo. That's just the reality of the situation. Long term, it's going to be as good for St John's as it's been in ages. But short term, not so much(and something I think all St John's fans knew was coming).

Again, I think you're premature in assuming this season will be a disaster. It did look horrible when the season ended, and Jordon and Obekpa were expected to leave. Lavin had done such a poor job of restocking the roster that it looked like he'd have to go to the student cafeteria to recruit enough players for a team.

But look where things stand now. Jordon and Obekpa are back. Four star guard Marcus Lovett recently tweeted St John's is the leading candidate for him. Many analysts are predicting Diallo will also wind up at St John's. Put those four in the starting rotation along with Williams/Sima, and you have a pretty solid starting five, with some good complimentary players on the bench. Will they get both Diallo and Lovett? Who knows. But lets wait and see what happens before you go ahead and bury them for next season.

Um, can I bury now?

It's gonna be a long year for St John's. But, I think long term, St John's is on a upswing that we've not seen for 20+ years quite frankly. I think the team I compare to is Temple. 2 years ago they were awful. didn't even win 10 games. But last year they made the NIT finals, and really should have made the NCAA tourney. It can rebound in a hurry.
11-04-2015 10:22 PM
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hoops22 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-04-2015 10:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-22-2015 12:06 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  
(04-22-2015 10:06 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I've said on here that Mullin has done a great job with what he's got- that he's done more in a month at St John's than Lavin did in his entire time there. this year is going to be brutal for St John's. They have Jordan, Obekpa, and that's about it. It's why I think it's such a pipedream to get Diallo. That's just the reality of the situation. Long term, it's going to be as good for St John's as it's been in ages. But short term, not so much(and something I think all St John's fans knew was coming).

Again, I think you're premature in assuming this season will be a disaster. It did look horrible when the season ended, and Jordon and Obekpa were expected to leave. Lavin had done such a poor job of restocking the roster that it looked like he'd have to go to the student cafeteria to recruit enough players for a team.

But look where things stand now. Jordon and Obekpa are back. Four star guard Marcus Lovett recently tweeted St John's is the leading candidate for him. Many analysts are predicting Diallo will also wind up at St John's. Put those four in the starting rotation along with Williams/Sima, and you have a pretty solid starting five, with some good complimentary players on the bench. Will they get both Diallo and Lovett? Who knows. But lets wait and see what happens before you go ahead and bury them for next season.

Um, can I bury now?

It's gonna be a long year for St John's. But, I think long term, St John's is on a upswing that we've not seen for 20+ years quite frankly. I think the team I compare to is Temple. 2 years ago they were awful. didn't even win 10 games. But last year they made the NIT finals, and really should have made the NCAA tourney. It can rebound in a hurry.

Stever the team you buried months ago is not the same team that played tonight. Jordon and Obekpa both said they'd be back, but neither are. Lovett was on the bench on crutches tonight. Diallo never committed. Put those four in the starting lineup and it's a completely different outlook. That's the team you were burying way back when. However, I will finally agree with you on one point, this season has the potential to be an absolute disaster. New coaching staff, all new players, no chemistry, no experience.... not a good formula for success.
11-04-2015 11:33 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-04-2015 11:33 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  
(11-04-2015 10:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-22-2015 12:06 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  
(04-22-2015 10:06 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I've said on here that Mullin has done a great job with what he's got- that he's done more in a month at St John's than Lavin did in his entire time there. this year is going to be brutal for St John's. They have Jordan, Obekpa, and that's about it. It's why I think it's such a pipedream to get Diallo. That's just the reality of the situation. Long term, it's going to be as good for St John's as it's been in ages. But short term, not so much(and something I think all St John's fans knew was coming).

Again, I think you're premature in assuming this season will be a disaster. It did look horrible when the season ended, and Jordon and Obekpa were expected to leave. Lavin had done such a poor job of restocking the roster that it looked like he'd have to go to the student cafeteria to recruit enough players for a team.

But look where things stand now. Jordon and Obekpa are back. Four star guard Marcus Lovett recently tweeted St John's is the leading candidate for him. Many analysts are predicting Diallo will also wind up at St John's. Put those four in the starting rotation along with Williams/Sima, and you have a pretty solid starting five, with some good complimentary players on the bench. Will they get both Diallo and Lovett? Who knows. But lets wait and see what happens before you go ahead and bury them for next season.

Um, can I bury now?

It's gonna be a long year for St John's. But, I think long term, St John's is on a upswing that we've not seen for 20+ years quite frankly. I think the team I compare to is Temple. 2 years ago they were awful. didn't even win 10 games. But last year they made the NIT finals, and really should have made the NCAA tourney. It can rebound in a hurry.

Stever the team you buried months ago is not the same team that played tonight. Jordon and Obekpa both said they'd be back, but neither are. Lovett was on the bench on crutches tonight. Diallo never committed. Put those four in the starting lineup and it's a completely different outlook. That's the team you were burying way back when. However, I will finally agree with you on one point, this season has the potential to be an absolute disaster. New coaching staff, all new players, no chemistry, no experience.... not a good formula for success.
yeah, and it's not like the pros where a season like this gets you a #1 draft pick....

My thought though- it's not really that big of a deal. If it's like this next year- that's when you start getting some red flags.
11-04-2015 11:39 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
interesting regarding Kansas and Diallo
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2015/nov/0...s-ongoing/

from the article:
Asked flat out if KU has actually received a ruling and KU may be in an appeals process, Self said: “I can’t say. I’ve been told to let the process play (out).”

a lot of their fans seem to think that he was ruled ineligible and it's in appeals process.

You wonder if Yakwe is in the same boat.
11-05-2015 11:03 AM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-04-2015 10:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Um, can I bury now?

It's gonna be a long year for St John's. But, I think long term, St John's is on a upswing that we've not seen for 20+ years quite frankly. I think the team I compare to is Temple. 2 years ago they were awful. didn't even win 10 games. But last year they made the NIT finals, and really should have made the NCAA tourney. It can rebound in a hurry.

We lost to Texas, #9 Villanova, UConn x2, Louisville x2, SMU x2, Memphis x2, and Cincy x2. All ranked or ranked the next time we played them. We also only had 7 scholarship players for 2/3 of the season.

St. John's would be lucky to win 8 games, and the conference schedule is nowhere near as tough as ours was.
11-05-2015 02:32 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-05-2015 02:32 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(11-04-2015 10:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Um, can I bury now?

It's gonna be a long year for St John's. But, I think long term, St John's is on a upswing that we've not seen for 20+ years quite frankly. I think the team I compare to is Temple. 2 years ago they were awful. didn't even win 10 games. But last year they made the NIT finals, and really should have made the NCAA tourney. It can rebound in a hurry.

We lost to Texas, #9 Villanova, UConn x2, Louisville x2, SMU x2, Memphis x2, and Cincy x2. All ranked or ranked the next time we played them. We also only had 7 scholarship players for 2/3 of the season.

St. John's would be lucky to win 8 games, and the conference schedule is nowhere near as tough as ours was.

Sorry- but Villanova, Georgetown, Butler, Xavier all really good- and then the depth of the conference much better than AAC was 2 years ago. There aren't any Rutgers, UCF, USF, or Houston's on the schedule.

Also- Temple lost to:
Kent St
Towson
Texas Southern
Rutgers
UCF x2
La Salle
Houston x2

Temple had a good schedule, #35. St John's will be around that number as well...

It's totally a valid comparison.
11-05-2015 02:41 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
put in a different way- Temple played 8 games in conference with tourney teams. St John's will likely have at least that many- and quite possibly more. But the difference is in the teams that don't make the tourney. The Big East 2016 light years better than AAC 2014 in teams 5-rest(not counting Temple 2014, St Johns 2016). That's the difference.
11-05-2015 02:55 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
Yeah, Seton Hall and DePaul are really stellar. Right now there are two ranked teams in the conference. We had 5 and played a top 10 team OOC. St. John's' OOC schedule is also terrible. Cuse should be decent, but not a Cuse team of old. Vandy is #18, could definitely be better, but also wouldn't surprise me to see them completely fall apart. South Carolina is trash. Wagner, UMBC, Rutgers, Fordham, St Francis, Niagara, NJIT, UIW? You can tell St. John's is just trying to pick up wins.

Towson went 25-11 and finished a game behind Delaware in the CAA. Kent, LaSalle, and TSU were average teams. The bottom of the AAC sucked, but top to bottom, we still had a much tougher schedule, and did so with only 7 scholarship players.
11-05-2015 02:55 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-05-2015 02:55 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  Yeah, Seton Hall and DePaul are really stellar. Right now there are two ranked teams in the conference. We had 5 and played a top 10 team OOC. St. John's' OOC schedule is also terrible. Cuse should be decent, but not a Cuse team of old. Vandy is #18, could definitely be better, but also wouldn't surprise me to see them completely fall apart. South Carolina is trash. Wagner, UMBC, Rutgers, Fordham, St Francis, Niagara, NJIT, UIW? You can tell St. John's is just trying to pick up wins.

Towson went 25-11 and finished a game behind Delaware in the CAA. Kent, LaSalle, and TSU were average teams. The bottom of the AAC sucked, but top to bottom, we still had a much tougher schedule, and did so with only 7 scholarship players.

You had 4 tourney teams. So stop with the 5 ranked teams- because that really didn't matter. SMU didn't make the tourney.

Big East could have 5-6 tourney teams depending on how things play out. And teams 7-9 will be top 100-125 teams. No dogs like what the AAC had that year.

Sorry- but Temple 2014 and St John's 2016 are very similar situations.
11-05-2015 03:03 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
SMU got shafted just like we did.
11-05-2015 03:13 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
just looking.....
Temple played 16 top 100 RPI teams that year. 15 non top 100 rpi teams.

played 6 top 100 teams OOC:
#5 Villanova
#30 St Joe's
#35 Texas
#71 Georgia
#75 Clemson
#88 La Salle

had 5 games in the top 200 or worse in conference play- 3 vs #211 UCF and 2 vs #232 USF. Also 2 with #184 Rutgers. Sorry- but that's just not happening with St John's.
11-05-2015 03:14 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-05-2015 03:13 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  SMU got shafted just like we did.

Temple got shafted much more than SMU did...

SMU was #52 RPI 2 years ago. That's bubble big time....

SMU had 3 losses to teams 140 or worse.
#141 Houston
#170 Temple
#232 USF

only had 10 top 100 games- going 4-6 in those 10.

You play a garbage OOC schedule(#288) you are in trouble.
11-05-2015 03:16 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
wow- just saw this from John Gassaway from ESPN:
Least experience returning from last season (possession-minutes):
St. John’s (5%)
Liberty (15%)
Kentucky (16%)
Boston College (16%)

I'd be curious in recent history how St John's matches up for least minutes coming back....
11-06-2015 06:05 PM
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hoops22 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
It's very difficult to win when you rely so heavily on freshmen, unless it's the type of class Duke and Kentucky normally bring in. Although even Kentucky a few years back had that great freshman class and still got knocked out in the first round of the NIT by Robert Morris. St. Johns has gone from last year, where they pretty much played the entire season with 6 guys , to this year where there's zero experience. I am curious to see how they play with Lovett in the lineup assuming he's eligible.
11-06-2015 11:47 PM
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hoops22 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-05-2015 02:55 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  Yeah, Seton Hall and DePaul are really stellar. Right now there are two ranked teams in the conference. We had 5 and played a top 10 team OOC. St. John's' OOC schedule is also terrible. Cuse should be decent, but not a Cuse team of old. Vandy is #18, could definitely be better, but also wouldn't surprise me to see them completely fall apart. South Carolina is trash. Wagner, UMBC, Rutgers, Fordham, St Francis, Niagara, NJIT, UIW? You can tell St. John's is just trying to pick up wins.

Towson went 25-11 and finished a game behind Delaware in the CAA. Kent, LaSalle, and TSU were average teams. The bottom of the AAC sucked, but top to bottom, we still had a much tougher schedule, and did so with only 7 scholarship players.

I'll bet you that when the end of the season rolls around St.Johns SOS will be ranked higher than Temples. And I recognize that Temple normally schedules a challenging schedule, but there's still plenty of dogs both in and out of conference that will drag it down.
11-06-2015 11:54 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-06-2015 11:47 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  It's very difficult to win when you rely so heavily on freshmen, unless it's the type of class Duke and Kentucky normally bring in. Although even Kentucky a few years back had that great freshman class and still got knocked out in the first round of the NIT by Robert Morris. St. Johns has gone from last year, where they pretty much played the entire season with 6 guys , to this year where there's zero experience. I am curious to see how they play with Lovett in the lineup assuming he's eligible.

yeah, that'll be interesting to see if Lovett gets eligible. But even if he does- I don't know how much better that makes everyone. If St John's could finish as good as Marquette was last year- that'd be an incredible season IMO.
11-07-2015 12:01 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Big Day for St John's on Monday
(11-06-2015 11:54 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  
(11-05-2015 02:55 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  Yeah, Seton Hall and DePaul are really stellar. Right now there are two ranked teams in the conference. We had 5 and played a top 10 team OOC. St. John's' OOC schedule is also terrible. Cuse should be decent, but not a Cuse team of old. Vandy is #18, could definitely be better, but also wouldn't surprise me to see them completely fall apart. South Carolina is trash. Wagner, UMBC, Rutgers, Fordham, St Francis, Niagara, NJIT, UIW? You can tell St. John's is just trying to pick up wins.

Towson went 25-11 and finished a game behind Delaware in the CAA. Kent, LaSalle, and TSU were average teams. The bottom of the AAC sucked, but top to bottom, we still had a much tougher schedule, and did so with only 7 scholarship players.

I'll bet you that when the end of the season rolls around St.Johns SOS will be ranked higher than Temples. And I recognize that Temple normally schedules a challenging schedule, but there's still plenty of dogs both in and out of conference that will drag it down.

We were talking about Temple's year 2 years ago where they were so bad. My thought is that St John's SOS will be very similar to what Temple had 2 years ago. It's a very similar situation IMO.
11-07-2015 12:03 AM
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