(04-07-2015 07:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  He is a Libertarian that unlike his father might know how to win. He is saying what he has to say...not necessarily what he actually believes.

This, to me, is the real interesting bit. Is it Rand playing the game to elected ... or is this what he genuinely believes now? Bernanke penned papers in favor of the Gold Standard before he became Chairmen of the Fed. How did that work out?

(04-07-2015 09:40 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 07:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  So we have a candidate who supports personal liberties. Except he opposes marriage equality and abortion rights.

I don't know his specific stances on this, but if he's smart he's squaring that circle using state's rights. Otherwise he is appeasing the GOP primary voter but alienating independents, his father's fervent followers (which he has already turned a good number off), and blue dogs. In other words, the very people he'd need to win in the general.

I believe Rand's position on gay marriage and abortion is that each state should decide these issues for themselves. Rand wants to decentralize power away from Washington.

(04-07-2015 09:43 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 09:40 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 07:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  So we have a candidate who supports personal liberties. Except he opposes marriage equality and abortion rights.

I don't know his specific stances on this, but if he's smart he's squaring that circle using state's rights. Otherwise he is appeasing the GOP primary voter but alienating independents, his father's fervent followers (which he has already turned a good number off), and blue dogs. In other words, the very people he'd need to win in the general.

I believe Rand's position on gay marriage and abortion is that each state should decide these issues for themselves. Rand wants to decentralize power away from Washington.

I'm sorry, but I believe Rand Paul is little different on social issues than the other Republicans.

Rand Paul or Rick Santorum? I can't tell the difference... http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015...risis.html

Rand Paul has a glass jaw. On the right, those opposed to his candidacy will hammer him on social issues. So long as he doesn't make a break with those forces (and he won't), he will leak those who thought that he'd be a different, less anti-Gay candidate. On the left, he's gonna get hammered over social security cuts and other issues.

(04-07-2015 09:42 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 07:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  He is a Libertarian that unlike his father might know how to win. He is saying what he has to say...not necessarily what he actually believes.

This, to me, is the real interesting bit. Is it Rand playing the game to elected ... or is this what he genuinely believes now? Bernanke penned papers in favor of the Gold Standard before he became Chairmen of the Fed. How did that work out?

He definitely panders with his words, but his voting record is very strong.

(04-08-2015 12:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 09:43 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 09:40 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 07:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  So we have a candidate who supports personal liberties. Except he opposes marriage equality and abortion rights.

I don't know his specific stances on this, but if he's smart he's squaring that circle using state's rights. Otherwise he is appeasing the GOP primary voter but alienating independents, his father's fervent followers (which he has already turned a good number off), and blue dogs. In other words, the very people he'd need to win in the general.

I believe Rand's position on gay marriage and abortion is that each state should decide these issues for themselves. Rand wants to decentralize power away from Washington.

I'm sorry, but I believe Rand Paul is little different on social issues than the other Republicans.

Rand Paul or Rick Santorum? I can't tell the difference... http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015...risis.html

Rand Paul has a glass jaw. On the right, those opposed to his candidacy will hammer him on social issues. So long as he doesn't make a break with those forces (and he won't), he will leak those who thought that he'd be a different, less anti-Gay candidate. On the left, he's gonna get hammered over social security cuts and other issues.

People who are going to vote social issues are going to check D or R anyway. The republicans could run Barney Frank and you would vote for Clinton.

(04-08-2015 05:33 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 12:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 09:43 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 09:40 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 07:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  So we have a candidate who supports personal liberties. Except he opposes marriage equality and abortion rights.

I don't know his specific stances on this, but if he's smart he's squaring that circle using state's rights. Otherwise he is appeasing the GOP primary voter but alienating independents, his father's fervent followers (which he has already turned a good number off), and blue dogs. In other words, the very people he'd need to win in the general.

I believe Rand's position on gay marriage and abortion is that each state should decide these issues for themselves. Rand wants to decentralize power away from Washington.

I'm sorry, but I believe Rand Paul is little different on social issues than the other Republicans.

Rand Paul or Rick Santorum? I can't tell the difference... http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015...risis.html

Rand Paul has a glass jaw. On the right, those opposed to his candidacy will hammer him on social issues. So long as he doesn't make a break with those forces (and he won't), he will leak those who thought that he'd be a different, less anti-Gay candidate. On the left, he's gonna get hammered over social security cuts and other issues.

People who are going to vote social issues are going to check D or R anyway. The republicans could run Barney Frank and you would vote for Clinton.

But that's the point, you have to take social issues off the table. And don't think states' rights is going to provide sufficient cover.

Rand Paul or bust 2016

(04-07-2015 07:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  He is a Libertarian that unlike his father might know how to win. He is saying what he has to say...not necessarily what he actually believes.

So is this something he has to say or something he actually thinks?

“the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not improve race relations or enhance freedom. Instead, the forced integration dictated by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 increased racial tensions while diminishing individual liberty.”

I personally have No bad feelings about Gay rights, but I do have an issue of calling a partnership a marriage. Another term could easily be used. And I Never have been in favor of abortion. An innocent life is taken and that is a different situation than someone committing a horrible crime and receiving the Death penalty for it. Or Killing in self defense.
I have been a supporter of Rand Paul as a Senator and unless some other changes come up He is currently My choice as President. Like others I like Scott Walker and John Kasich and Mike Pence, it will be a wait and see how things unfold over the next 1.5 years until election day.

He has raised $900,000 in about 24 hours.

(04-08-2015 12:22 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  He has raised $900,000 in about 24 hours.

Honest question, is this an impressive amount?

I am not sure I would have been interested in (either) Paul four years ago, but I am ready to take a serious look at his candidacy for this election.

(04-08-2015 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 07:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  He is a Libertarian that unlike his father might know how to win. He is saying what he has to say...not necessarily what he actually believes.

So is this something he has to say or something he actually thinks?

“the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not improve race relations or enhance freedom. Instead, the forced integration dictated by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 increased racial tensions while diminishing individual liberty.”

I think he was examining the law in light of where race relations stand in 2015 and just how coercive that legislation was and continues to be. But of course this statement will be interpreted as wanting to put blacks back on the plantation.

So how do we know what Rand Paul really believes (or any other candidate for that matter)? All the candidates to some extent say what they think people want to hear.

(04-07-2015 07:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  So we have a candidate who supports personal liberties. Except he opposes marriage equality and abortion rights.

He is consistent. You just don't recognize it. He is for the liberty of the child.

Opposes abortion? Even better.

(04-08-2015 01:19 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Opposes abortion? Even better.

Not going to win the ladies over with that stance. Cue the 'war on women' mantra.

This is one issue that Christians and conservatives need a better understanding about. Most women feel that the option should exist even though they would personally never use it. Also, Due the the amount of women entering into the OB/GYN field, the number of abortions doctors has been dwindling. At some point the left is going to get into its own like gay cake moment and try and force OB/GYN's to performs abortions. There no need to expend energy on this.

I don't know any women personally that support abortion. The idea that this is some kind of important womans issue is a myth.

(04-08-2015 01:51 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I don't know any women personally that support abortion. The idea that this is some kind of important womans issue is a myth.

It's important in that it riles up the independent voter base, and not just on the issue of abortion but of reproductive rights in general. Abstinence-only education is a big loser, nationally speaking for instance.

EDIT: Also judging the commonality of your experience to be indicative of the overall population is never a good idea. There is a significant difference between men and women when it comes to abortion legislation. It might not be a 30% swing, but it's enough to win in key states.

(04-08-2015 03:23 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:51 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I don't know any women personally that support abortion. The idea that this is some kind of important womans issue is a myth.

It's important in that it riles up the independent voter base, and not just on the issue of abortion but of reproductive rights in general. Abstinence-only education is a big loser, nationally speaking for instance.

EDIT: Also judging the commonality of your experience to be indicative of the overall population is never a good idea. There is a significant difference between men and women when it comes to abortion legislation. It might not be a 30% swing, but it's enough to win in key states.

I'm not sure how significant the difference is between men and women, but I do know that large segments of of both genders want the options available even if they themselves have no intention of ever using it. It's important for the GOP to understand that distinction and use it to their advantage. After pursuing Rand's site, he tries to couch his pro-life stance around the 14th Amendment. That's not going to work IMO because the defining life as beginning at conception is going to be constructed as the imposition of religious dogma.