Oh, I didn't realize we were being tested on Robertson's comments. Did he do any of that? If not, thread is moot. Period.

(04-01-2015 11:35 AM)TStatebobcat Wrote:  I'm beginning to think that atheist's attitude toward religion is the cause of that rant. You guys don't believe in a higher being, cool, no problem. Its when you guys start to believe that atheism gives you the right to look down upon religion is when you get responses like that. Insulting someone's religion is like insulting your mom, wife, dad, etc. I don't care who you are you would never take kindly to that.

Critcism =/= Insult

Why criticize? Have you read the Old Testament? I cannot fathom how somebody can read that and go, "Oh yes, this needs to be the world's #1 religion. I want to devote at least one to two evenings a week to worship of this deity. This is the basis of morality right here. I think I should elect people who believe in this too. And we should make laws and enforce those laws to reflect this morality and this view of the world."

How to become an atheist:

Step 1) Read The Bible. Cover to cover. Annotate as you go.
Step 2) Read The God Delusion to see the alternative offerings from science
Step 3) Ask yourself some questions which should prove difficult to answer, such as:
- If I were born today in China or Russia or India or Zaire ... would I be the same religion? Why is religion tied OVERWHELMINGLY to geography?
- If my parents did not indoctrinate me in their religion very early ... would I be the same religion?
- Is there a difference in mythology versus cult versus religion beyond popularity?
- Why not Zeus or Yahweh or Thor or Ra or Osiris or Baal or Wotan or Jupiter or Apollo or, quite literally, THOUSANDS of other gods from other religions?

PRAISE SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(04-02-2015 09:18 AM)dfarr Wrote:  It's just pure hyperbole to make a point about moral relativism.

Yep. That's the whole point of the graphic nature.

(04-02-2015 01:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 11:35 AM)TStatebobcat Wrote:  I'm beginning to think that atheist's attitude toward religion is the cause of that rant. You guys don't believe in a higher being, cool, no problem. Its when you guys start to believe that atheism gives you the right to look down upon religion is when you get responses like that. Insulting someone's religion is like insulting your mom, wife, dad, etc. I don't care who you are you would never take kindly to that.

I cannot fathom

Honestly, you need not say anything else.

This is much more succinct.

This thread is glorious.

(04-02-2015 01:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 11:35 AM)TStatebobcat Wrote:  I'm beginning to think that atheist's attitude toward religion is the cause of that rant. You guys don't believe in a higher being, cool, no problem. Its when you guys start to believe that atheism gives you the right to look down upon religion is when you get responses like that. Insulting someone's religion is like insulting your mom, wife, dad, etc. I don't care who you are you would never take kindly to that.

Critcism =/= Insult

Why criticize? Have you read the Old Testament? I cannot fathom how somebody can read that and go, "Oh yes, this needs to be the world's #1 religion. I want to devote at least one to two evenings a week to worship of this deity. This is the basis of morality right here. I think I should elect people who believe in this too. And we should make laws and enforce those laws to reflect this morality and this view of the world."

One must understand history and culture to really "get" the reasons for some of the OT laws as they pertained to the Jews. Sadly most people today, including many Christians do not. We only have ourselves to blame for that.

(04-02-2015 01:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  How to become an atheist:

Step 1) Read The Bible. Cover to cover. Annotate as you go.
Step 2) Read The God Delusion to see the alternative offerings from science
Step 3) Ask yourself some questions which should prove difficult to answer, such as:
- If I were born today in China or Russia or India or Zaire ... would I be the same religion? Why is religion tied OVERWHELMINGLY to geography?

Potentially because of missions. Same reason language is tied overwhelmingly to geography. That doesn't mean we can't learn it.

(04-02-2015 01:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  - If my parents did not indoctrinate me in their religion very early ... would I be the same religion?

Sure. There are plenty of people who are Christian, Muslim, etc. whose parents were not and vice versa.

(04-02-2015 01:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  - Is there a difference in mythology versus cult versus religion beyond popularity?
- Why not Zeus or Yahweh or Thor or Ra or Osiris or Baal or Wotan or Jupiter or Apollo or, quite literally, THOUSANDS of other gods from other religions?

Jesus.

(04-02-2015 01:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 11:35 AM)TStatebobcat Wrote:  I'm beginning to think that atheist's attitude toward religion is the cause of that rant. You guys don't believe in a higher being, cool, no problem. Its when you guys start to believe that atheism gives you the right to look down upon religion is when you get responses like that. Insulting someone's religion is like insulting your mom, wife, dad, etc. I don't care who you are you would never take kindly to that.

Critcism =/= Insult

Why criticize? Have you read the Old Testament? I cannot fathom how somebody can read that and go, "Oh yes, this needs to be the world's #1 religion. I want to devote at least one to two evenings a week to worship of this deity. This is the basis of morality right here. I think I should elect people who believe in this too. And we should make laws and enforce those laws to reflect this morality and this view of the world."

How to become an atheist:

Step 1) Read The Bible. Cover to cover. Annotate as you go.
Step 2) Read The God Delusion to see the alternative offerings from science
Step 3) Ask yourself some questions which should prove difficult to answer, such as:
- If I were born today in China or Russia or India or Zaire ... would I be the same religion? Why is religion tied OVERWHELMINGLY to geography?
- If my parents did not indoctrinate me in their religion very early ... would I be the same religion?
- Is there a difference in mythology versus cult versus religion beyond popularity?
- Why not Zeus or Yahweh or Thor or Ra or Osiris or Baal or Wotan or Jupiter or Apollo or, quite literally, THOUSANDS of other gods from other religions?

You do realize that the Old Testament is basically Jewish law, history, and prophecy about the messiah. There are plenty of good teachings, stories, and lessons to be learned in the Old Testament. However, I focus more on what Jesus actually said and did instead of Jewsih laws about diet, circumcision, etc.

Hebrews 8:13
Jeremiah 31:31-34

One of the stupidest things I've ever read.

OMG, Phil Robertson spoke something....get the pitchforks and the torches and let's get him on the internet.

(04-01-2015 12:37 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 01:47 PM)john01992 Wrote:  “I’ll make a bet with you. Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him and then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of ‘em and then shoot him and they take his wife and decapitate her head off in from of him. And then they can look at him and say isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged … there’s no right or wrong … and then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say wouldn’t it be something if this was something wrong with this, but you’re the one who says theres no God, there’s no right, there’s no wrong…. so we’re just having fun. We’re sick in the head. Have a nice day.”

sounds very similar to arguments that I've heard atheists make to try and shame/embarrass/make fun of 'believers'.

I don't think I'd ever personally make those comments, but they are far from the worst or most hyperbolic comments I've ever heard anyone make.

What are yours?

It is nothing remotely similar to arguments made by atheists. I have just as big of an axe to grind with the atheist movements as any poster on this forum. But if there is one thing that you can not fault them for it's that none of their talking points are as bad as this one.

What Robertson is saying is a surprisingly mainstream viewpoint among religious circles. Putting the incredibly disturbing rhetoric aside, what Robertson is hinting at is this false notion that non believers are morally inferior to believers. IOW: That a non believer could never match the morality that dictates right & wrong as someone who is religious. At best this is slander, at worst it is the same type of rhetoric that caused some of the darkest religious conflicts in human history.

It's a type of attitude that needs to die a quick death, and incomparable to other attitudes out there. It is particularly damaging because study after study shows that atheists not homosexuals & Muslims are the most stigmatized group in the nation. And are so by a very significant margin. The failure of you to see the damage being done by these comments is IMO direct proof that you are part of the problem.

You asked, and you got ticked off that I didn't respond quicker. So don't throw a hissy fit because I spoke my mind.

(04-02-2015 11:17 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 12:37 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 01:47 PM)john01992 Wrote:  “I’ll make a bet with you. Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him and then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of ‘em and then shoot him and they take his wife and decapitate her head off in from of him. And then they can look at him and say isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged … there’s no right or wrong … and then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say wouldn’t it be something if this was something wrong with this, but you’re the one who says theres no God, there’s no right, there’s no wrong…. so we’re just having fun. We’re sick in the head. Have a nice day.”

sounds very similar to arguments that I've heard atheists make to try and shame/embarrass/make fun of 'believers'.

I don't think I'd ever personally make those comments, but they are far from the worst or most hyperbolic comments I've ever heard anyone make.

What are yours?

It is nothing remotely similar to arguments made by atheists. I have just as big of an axe to grind with the atheist movements as any poster on this forum. But if there is one thing that you can not fault them for it's that none of their talking points are as bad as this one.

What Robertson is saying is a surprisingly mainstream viewpoint among religious circles. Putting the incredibly disturbing rhetoric aside, what Robertson is hinting at is this false notion that non believers are morally inferior to believers. IOW: That a non believer could never match the morality that dictates right & wrong as someone who is religious. At best this is slander, at worst it is the same type of rhetoric that caused some of the darkest religious conflicts in human history.

It's a type of attitude that needs to die a quick death, and incomparable to other attitudes out there. It is particularly damaging because study after study shows that atheists not homosexuals & Muslims are the most stigmatized group in the nation. And are so by a very significant margin. The failure of you to see the damage being done by these comments is IMO direct proof that you are part of the problem.

You asked, and you got ticked off that I didn't respond quicker. So don't throw a hissy fit because I spoke my mind.

Excellent. Then study after study should be readily available for review, and we can all then determine what "significant margin" means and who has determined that.

Please post a link or two.

(04-03-2015 12:57 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-02-2015 11:17 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 12:37 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 01:47 PM)john01992 Wrote:  “I’ll make a bet with you. Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him and then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of ‘em and then shoot him and they take his wife and decapitate her head off in from of him. And then they can look at him and say isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged … there’s no right or wrong … and then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say wouldn’t it be something if this was something wrong with this, but you’re the one who says theres no God, there’s no right, there’s no wrong…. so we’re just having fun. We’re sick in the head. Have a nice day.”

sounds very similar to arguments that I've heard atheists make to try and shame/embarrass/make fun of 'believers'.

I don't think I'd ever personally make those comments, but they are far from the worst or most hyperbolic comments I've ever heard anyone make.

What are yours?

It is nothing remotely similar to arguments made by atheists. I have just as big of an axe to grind with the atheist movements as any poster on this forum. But if there is one thing that you can not fault them for it's that none of their talking points are as bad as this one.

What Robertson is saying is a surprisingly mainstream viewpoint among religious circles. Putting the incredibly disturbing rhetoric aside, what Robertson is hinting at is this false notion that non believers are morally inferior to believers. IOW: That a non believer could never match the morality that dictates right & wrong as someone who is religious. At best this is slander, at worst it is the same type of rhetoric that caused some of the darkest religious conflicts in human history.

It's a type of attitude that needs to die a quick death, and incomparable to other attitudes out there. It is particularly damaging because study after study shows that atheists not homosexuals & Muslims are the most stigmatized group in the nation. And are so by a very significant margin. The failure of you to see the damage being done by these comments is IMO direct proof that you are part of the problem.

You asked, and you got ticked off that I didn't respond quicker. So don't throw a hissy fit because I spoke my mind.

Excellent. Then study after study should be readily available for review, and we can all then determine what "significant margin" means and who has determined that.

Please post a link or two.

https://www.soc.umn.edu/assets/pdf/atheistAsOther.pdf

This Group Does Not At All Agree with My Vision of American Society
Atheists 39.5%
Muslims 26.3%
Homosexuals 22.6%

No other group scored higher than 14%

I Would Disapprove if My Child Wanted to Marry a Member of This Group
Atheists 47.6%
Muslims 33.5%
African American 27.2%

No other group scored higher than 19%

Or this:

Asked about a list of traits and how each would impact their likelihood of supporting a presidential candidate, about half (53%) of Americans said they would be less likely to support an atheist.

No other trait, including being gay or having never held elected office, garnered a larger share of people saying they’d be less likely to support the potential candidate.
-Pew research

(04-03-2015 12:57 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-02-2015 11:17 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 12:37 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 01:47 PM)john01992 Wrote:  “I’ll make a bet with you. Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him and then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of ‘em and then shoot him and they take his wife and decapitate her head off in from of him. And then they can look at him and say isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged … there’s no right or wrong … and then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say wouldn’t it be something if this was something wrong with this, but you’re the one who says theres no God, there’s no right, there’s no wrong…. so we’re just having fun. We’re sick in the head. Have a nice day.”

sounds very similar to arguments that I've heard atheists make to try and shame/embarrass/make fun of 'believers'.

I don't think I'd ever personally make those comments, but they are far from the worst or most hyperbolic comments I've ever heard anyone make.

What are yours?

It is nothing remotely similar to arguments made by atheists. I have just as big of an axe to grind with the atheist movements as any poster on this forum. But if there is one thing that you can not fault them for it's that none of their talking points are as bad as this one.

What Robertson is saying is a surprisingly mainstream viewpoint among religious circles. Putting the incredibly disturbing rhetoric aside, what Robertson is hinting at is this false notion that non believers are morally inferior to believers. IOW: That a non believer could never match the morality that dictates right & wrong as someone who is religious. At best this is slander, at worst it is the same type of rhetoric that caused some of the darkest religious conflicts in human history.

It's a type of attitude that needs to die a quick death, and incomparable to other attitudes out there. It is particularly damaging because study after study shows that atheists not homosexuals & Muslims are the most stigmatized group in the nation. And are so by a very significant margin. The failure of you to see the damage being done by these comments is IMO direct proof that you are part of the problem.

You asked, and you got ticked off that I didn't respond quicker. So don't throw a hissy fit because I spoke my mind.

Excellent. Then study after study should be readily available for review, and we can all then determine what "significant margin" means and who has determined that.

Please post a link or two.

To add to his list, I find this study exceedingly pertinent here-

Quote:Gervais and his colleagues presented participants with a story about a person who accidentally hits a parked car and then fails to leave behind valid insurance information for the other driver. Participants were asked to choose the probability that the person in question was a Christian, a Muslim, a rapist, or an atheist. They thought it equally probable the culprit was an atheist or a rapist, and unlikely the person was a Muslim or Christian.

Using this metric, rapists are seen as more trustworthy than atheists. The simple fact you'd ask for sources about his initial claim is somewhat telling in that anyone know has studied the entire spectrum of religion knows that Atheism is the bastard step-child of religious choices in the United States. It's like asking for a source that the average NBA player is above the overall average height. Nothing wrong with asking for a source, but it's telling in that you're clearly coming into this discussion without any point of reference or basic understanding of this issue. I don't know of a single study on public perception in which atheists aren't dead last, or fighting tooth and nail for that position.

(03-31-2015 01:47 PM)john01992 Wrote:  “I’ll make a bet with you. Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him and then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of ‘em and then shoot him and they take his wife and decapitate her head off in from of him. And then they can look at him and say isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged … there’s no right or wrong … and then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say wouldn’t it be something if this was something wrong with this, but you’re the one who says theres no God, there’s no right, there’s no wrong…. so we’re just having fun. We’re sick in the head. Have a nice day.”

Someone has a serious sickness if they think these kinds of thoughts.

(04-06-2015 10:57 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-03-2015 12:57 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-02-2015 11:17 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 12:37 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 01:47 PM)john01992 Wrote:  “I’ll make a bet with you. Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him and then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of ‘em and then shoot him and they take his wife and decapitate her head off in from of him. And then they can look at him and say isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged … there’s no right or wrong … and then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say wouldn’t it be something if this was something wrong with this, but you’re the one who says theres no God, there’s no right, there’s no wrong…. so we’re just having fun. We’re sick in the head. Have a nice day.”

sounds very similar to arguments that I've heard atheists make to try and shame/embarrass/make fun of 'believers'.

I don't think I'd ever personally make those comments, but they are far from the worst or most hyperbolic comments I've ever heard anyone make.

What are yours?

It is nothing remotely similar to arguments made by atheists. I have just as big of an axe to grind with the atheist movements as any poster on this forum. But if there is one thing that you can not fault them for it's that none of their talking points are as bad as this one.

What Robertson is saying is a surprisingly mainstream viewpoint among religious circles. Putting the incredibly disturbing rhetoric aside, what Robertson is hinting at is this false notion that non believers are morally inferior to believers. IOW: That a non believer could never match the morality that dictates right & wrong as someone who is religious. At best this is slander, at worst it is the same type of rhetoric that caused some of the darkest religious conflicts in human history.

It's a type of attitude that needs to die a quick death, and incomparable to other attitudes out there. It is particularly damaging because study after study shows that atheists not homosexuals & Muslims are the most stigmatized group in the nation. And are so by a very significant margin. The failure of you to see the damage being done by these comments is IMO direct proof that you are part of the problem.

You asked, and you got ticked off that I didn't respond quicker. So don't throw a hissy fit because I spoke my mind.

Excellent. Then study after study should be readily available for review, and we can all then determine what "significant margin" means and who has determined that.

Please post a link or two.

To add to his list, I find this study exceedingly pertinent here-

Quote:Gervais and his colleagues presented participants with a story about a person who accidentally hits a parked car and then fails to leave behind valid insurance information for the other driver. Participants were asked to choose the probability that the person in question was a Christian, a Muslim, a rapist, or an atheist. They thought it equally probable the culprit was an atheist or a rapist, and unlikely the person was a Muslim or Christian.

Using this metric, rapists are seen as more trustworthy than atheists. The simple fact you'd ask for sources about his initial claim is somewhat telling in that anyone know has studied the entire spectrum of religion knows that Atheism is the bastard step-child of religious choices in the United States. It's like asking for a source that the average NBA player is above the overall average height. Nothing wrong with asking for a source, but it's telling in that you're clearly coming into this discussion without any point of reference or basic understanding of this issue. I don't know of a single study on public perception in which atheists aren't dead last, or fighting tooth and nail for that position.

Geez, you're touchey. There isn't anything "telling" in the least. I've not looked into it a whole lot, so what? As far as a point of "reference" I've got some understanding indeed- My own Father, son of a Lutheran Minister of nearly 80 years as Pastor of the church he founded, was an Atheist.

Never crossed my mind nor anyone I ever encoutered while in his company that anyone felt or thought he might be untrustworthy or anything else.

And to you're above "study" How many rapists are running around leaving their personal calling card out there? What an idiotic starting place.

(04-07-2015 03:01 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 10:57 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-03-2015 12:57 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-02-2015 11:17 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 12:37 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  sounds very similar to arguments that I've heard atheists make to try and shame/embarrass/make fun of 'believers'.

I don't think I'd ever personally make those comments, but they are far from the worst or most hyperbolic comments I've ever heard anyone make.

What are yours?

It is nothing remotely similar to arguments made by atheists. I have just as big of an axe to grind with the atheist movements as any poster on this forum. But if there is one thing that you can not fault them for it's that none of their talking points are as bad as this one.

What Robertson is saying is a surprisingly mainstream viewpoint among religious circles. Putting the incredibly disturbing rhetoric aside, what Robertson is hinting at is this false notion that non believers are morally inferior to believers. IOW: That a non believer could never match the morality that dictates right & wrong as someone who is religious. At best this is slander, at worst it is the same type of rhetoric that caused some of the darkest religious conflicts in human history.

It's a type of attitude that needs to die a quick death, and incomparable to other attitudes out there. It is particularly damaging because study after study shows that atheists not homosexuals & Muslims are the most stigmatized group in the nation. And are so by a very significant margin. The failure of you to see the damage being done by these comments is IMO direct proof that you are part of the problem.

You asked, and you got ticked off that I didn't respond quicker. So don't throw a hissy fit because I spoke my mind.

Excellent. Then study after study should be readily available for review, and we can all then determine what "significant margin" means and who has determined that.

Please post a link or two.

To add to his list, I find this study exceedingly pertinent here-

Quote:Gervais and his colleagues presented participants with a story about a person who accidentally hits a parked car and then fails to leave behind valid insurance information for the other driver. Participants were asked to choose the probability that the person in question was a Christian, a Muslim, a rapist, or an atheist. They thought it equally probable the culprit was an atheist or a rapist, and unlikely the person was a Muslim or Christian.

Using this metric, rapists are seen as more trustworthy than atheists. The simple fact you'd ask for sources about his initial claim is somewhat telling in that anyone know has studied the entire spectrum of religion knows that Atheism is the bastard step-child of religious choices in the United States. It's like asking for a source that the average NBA player is above the overall average height. Nothing wrong with asking for a source, but it's telling in that you're clearly coming into this discussion without any point of reference or basic understanding of this issue. I don't know of a single study on public perception in which atheists aren't dead last, or fighting tooth and nail for that position.

Geez, you're touchey. There isn't anything "telling" in the least. I've not looked into it a whole lot, so what? As far as a point of "reference" I've got some understanding indeed- My own Father, son of a Lutheran Minister of nearly 80 years as Pastor of the church he founded, was an Atheist.

Never crossed my mind nor anyone I ever encoutered while in his company that anyone felt or thought he might be untrustworthy or anything else.

And to you're above "study" How many rapists are running around leaving their personal calling card out there? What an idiotic starting place.

Find an american opinion poll in which atheists are not polled lowest or near lowest. You won't be able to, because every single poll shows that result. That's what I mean. If you had at all looked into public opinion on irreligion, then you'd notice that fact. It's like commenting on the NBA without noticing they're tall. It stands out at you because it's such an outlier.

Don't waste your time UCF. We are posting solid links with evidence...he is resorting to unverified personal stories.

(04-09-2015 01:01 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Don't waste your time UCF. We are posting solid links with evidence...he is resorting to unverified personal stories.

My, my you're awfully touchey too, hunh?

Hey guise! Pro-tip- You're both looking for something that isn't there. I SAID I haven't looked into it much, if at all, as it isn't something that ever crossed my mind or interests me all that much. SO, I politely asked for a link or two, you touchey #2, provided one or two seemingly decent studies, touchey #1 dropped in some rapists don't leave name and address story thing and maybe I learned something I didn't know cause I'd never looked.

My relating "unverified personal stories" yes, let me make that one up for some odd reason. Relating that was simply to dismiss the notion I had no "understanding", or whatever it was, about Atheists. Pretty sure you could put my younger brother amongst their scorned class as well...

I do now wonder when they get their protected class legislation? Gotta protect everyone from those meanie old folks sitting in their Church pews singing from the Hymnals.