RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-25-2015 11:41 PM)gobluebigjon Wrote: This thread is comedy gold.
What does it take to be a Christian?
Confess and truly believe Jesus Christ is THE Son of God and died on the cross and rose from the grave on the 3rd day to redeem mankind for his sins.
Confess him as the Son of God, your savoir and ask for forgiveness of your sins. And love Him above all, and love everyone as you love Him.
Loving one another is his one true commandment to His followers.
These are HIS words and the words of his chosen disciples. Read the 4 gospels (Mathew, Mark, Luke and John) and see for yourself.
Jesus was the purest man that ever lived. And 2000 years later, this lowly carpenter from a poor province in one of the tiniest nations on the globe became the most famous man that ever walked the planet. The Book about him is the greatest selling and most read Book in the history of our species.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2015 07:04 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
What this "pastor" says he believes isn't what I would consider "Christian Beliefs".
With that said, I'm not willing to be the judge of a person's beliefs. Given the number of different Christian "brands", as a rule I worry about my beliefs and let others worry about theirs.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
This isn't in the Bible.
"the holy catholic Church,"
I used to be catholic and as such I believed it because it was part of my catechism. The thief on the cross never was told that he wouldn't be in heaven because he wasn't a catholic. But he would be because of one thing, he believed in Jesus Christ as savior and God.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-26-2015 06:56 PM)olliebaba Wrote:
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
This isn't in the Bible.
"the holy catholic Church,"
I used to be catholic and as such I believed it because it was part of my catechism. The thief on the cross never was told that he wouldn't be in heaven because he wasn't a catholic. But he would be because of one thing, he believed in Jesus Christ as savior and God.
catholic Church - including a wide variety of things; all-embracing. I would consider the Orthodox Churches and most of the protestant Churches to be part the catholic church.
Catholic Church - What people call the roman Catholic Church.
This is why other Churches use the creed outside of Rome. FTR I am not a Roman Catholic.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2015 09:10 PM by Bull_In_Exile.)
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-22-2015 09:43 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: PCUSA has problems as a whole. My Presbytery voted against(and I approve) the latest change in the definition of marriage...but...more and more PCUSA Presbyteries are straying.
PCUSA is on a path to demographic oblivion. Hard to say precisely when they will reach the end of the road, but on present trends (going back to the 1960s), PCUSA will not live to see the year 2100.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-22-2015 07:32 PM)Niner National Wrote:
(03-22-2015 04:54 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:
(03-22-2015 09:16 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Because if you don't defend the faith you end up with a Presbyterian *minister* who does not even believe in God.
Though I self-identify as a Christian and I am an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), I raised eyebrows a few years ago when I posted an article on my website about how my personal beliefs don’t align with those of most Presbyterians.
For example, I believe that:
* Religion is a human construct
* The symbols of faith are products of human cultural evolution
* Jesus may have been an historical figure, but most of what we know about him is in the form of legend
* God is a symbol of myth-making and not credible as a supernatural being or force
* The Bible is a human product as opposed to special revelation from a divine being
* Human consciousness is the result of natural selection, so there’s no afterlife
...
I believe one of the newer religious paths could be a “belief-less” Christianity. In this “sect,” one is not required to believe things. One learns and draws upon practices and products of our cultural tradition to create meaning in the present. The last two congregations I have served have huge commitments to equality for LGTBQ people and eco-justice, among other things. They draw from the well of our Christian cultural tradition (and other religious traditions) for encouragement in these efforts. I think a belief-less Christianity can be a positive good for society.
---
To that man preaching is just a paycheck and he likely sees himself as a psychologist rather than a spiritual leader. I really have no use for Christian Churches that edit the Bible to their beliefs if they even bother to teach from the Bible, those kinds of churches are more a social gathering.
The bible that you know today was edited to the beliefs of those before you.
There are a number of gospels that were excluded by the Catholic church to form the bible as we know it today.
The bible we know today isn't the word of god. It is a collection of gospels chosen by men in robes centuries ago.
Because much of the "Gospels" (those left out) are apocryphal and fraudulent.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-22-2015 09:43 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: PCUSA has problems as a whole. My Presbytery voted against(and I approve) the latest change in the definition of marriage...but...more and more PCUSA Presbyteries are straying.
I am not Presbyterian, but I am a member at the local PCUSA church. We just voted as a church to leave the Presbytery and it was granted. About half of the local churches in our Presbytery left at the same time.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-27-2015 03:00 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:
(03-22-2015 09:43 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: PCUSA has problems as a whole. My Presbytery voted against(and I approve) the latest change in the definition of marriage...but...more and more PCUSA Presbyteries are straying.
I am not Presbyterian, but I am a member at the local PCUSA church. We just voted as a church to leave the Presbytery and it was granted. About half of the local churches in our Presbytery left at the same time.
How will people denote your church from the old one? Is there a name change?
You know it's beyond me how a church group would admit practicing homosexuals as clergy when it's very obvious that the Bible is very much against homosexuality.
My church believes in not allowing women as pastors/teachers. It doesn't make any difference to me really I just can't get used to it. There was a woman who was teaching Apollo about Christ. Didn't Jesus say that if you weren't for Him you were against Him? I don't think that applies to gay clergy though. It's entirely different as being a woman isn't a sin.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
Why am I to beilieve a group of guys who were put together by the emperor of Rome 300 years after the fact were right about Jesus? I could write plenty that doesn't contradict scripture.
I still am curious as to what makes one a Christian, seems there are a lot of different ideas about that.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-26-2015 09:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:
(03-26-2015 06:56 PM)olliebaba Wrote:
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
This isn't in the Bible.
"the holy catholic Church,"
I used to be catholic and as such I believed it because it was part of my catechism. The thief on the cross never was told that he wouldn't be in heaven because he wasn't a catholic. But he would be because of one thing, he believed in Jesus Christ as savior and God.
catholic Church - including a wide variety of things; all-embracing. I would consider the Orthodox Churches and most of the protestant Churches to be part the catholic church.
Catholic Church - What people call the roman Catholic Church.
This is why other Churches use the creed outside of Rome. FTR I am not a Roman Catholic.
It is my understanding that the use of Catholic in the creed means the "whole church"...not any general denomination.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-28-2015 02:00 PM)olliebaba Wrote:
(03-27-2015 03:00 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:
(03-22-2015 09:43 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: PCUSA has problems as a whole. My Presbytery voted against(and I approve) the latest change in the definition of marriage...but...more and more PCUSA Presbyteries are straying.
I am not Presbyterian, but I am a member at the local PCUSA church. We just voted as a church to leave the Presbytery and it was granted. About half of the local churches in our Presbytery left at the same time.
How will people denote your church from the old one? Is there a name change?
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-28-2015 11:56 PM)gobluebigjon Wrote:
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
Why am I to beilieve a group of guys who were put together by the emperor of Rome 300 years after the fact were right about Jesus? I could write plenty that doesn't contradict scripture.
You did not answer my second question. Does anything in it contradict scripture?
Quote:I still am curious as to what makes one a Christian, seems there are a lot of different ideas about that.
A sound biblical view of who God is, who Jesus is, what the scripture is, and a desire to first be about God's glory.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-29-2015 07:51 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:
(03-26-2015 09:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:
(03-26-2015 06:56 PM)olliebaba Wrote:
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
This isn't in the Bible.
"the holy catholic Church,"
I used to be catholic and as such I believed it because it was part of my catechism. The thief on the cross never was told that he wouldn't be in heaven because he wasn't a catholic. But he would be because of one thing, he believed in Jesus Christ as savior and God.
catholic Church - including a wide variety of things; all-embracing. I would consider the Orthodox Churches and most of the protestant Churches to be part the catholic church.
Catholic Church - What people call the roman Catholic Church.
This is why other Churches use the creed outside of Rome. FTR I am not a Roman Catholic.
It is my understanding that the use of Catholic in the creed means the "whole church"...not any general denomination.
I may have it backwards. There is a difference between "catholic" and "Catholic". One meaning, as you say "The whole Church" and the other meaning "The Roman Catholic Church".
I thought the little c was for the greater church body while the big C was specifically the roman catholic church.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-28-2015 11:56 PM)gobluebigjon Wrote:
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
Why am I to beilieve a group of guys who were put together by the emperor of Rome 300 years after the fact were right about Jesus? I could write plenty that doesn't contradict scripture.
I still am curious as to what makes one a Christian, seems there are a lot of different ideas about that.
Lets look at the remarkable authenticity of the Bible.
We have more secular evidence of the authenticity of the bible than any other text written in ancient times........X 10. (a laughably conservative estimate)
If you study up on these details, you will see how its the most authentic book ever written, AND ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE. And I do NOT say that from faith, I say it from historical and secular evidence.
One way we can prove this though historiography, which is the study and authenticity of manuscripts. We can trace the manuscripts all the way back to within 30 years of the crucifixion. To give you an ideal of how amazing this is, the oldest copy of the most famous secular writings of this time are 1000+ years out of date. (the famous writing of Caesar from the 1st century.....the oldest manuscript is 1000 years out of date, Aristotle's are 1400 years, Homers writings....1400+ years)
Yet they can trace NT manuscripts back to within 30 years of Christ, and this number is continuing to shrink.
The evidence is totally undeniable and the total opposite of what you have been led to believe. And you can research this for yourself and prove it to yourself.
Something very special happened in the early days of the church that allows us to fully authenticate the early manuscripts more than any other book ever written in the whole world 2000 years after the fact. We do not have this ability in any other writings from antiquity, it is TOTALLY unique to the bible and the NT.
BTW- I strongly suggest watching the whole video but the juicy details begin after the 14:45 mark. Manuscript counts in the 22-27 minute range.
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2015 05:21 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-29-2015 04:24 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:
(03-28-2015 11:56 PM)gobluebigjon Wrote:
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
Why am I to beilieve a group of guys who were put together by the emperor of Rome 300 years after the fact were right about Jesus? I could write plenty that doesn't contradict scripture.
I still am curious as to what makes one a Christian, seems there are a lot of different ideas about that.
Lets look at the remarkable authenticity of the Bible.
We have more secular evidence of the authenticity of the bible than any other text written in ancient times........X 10. (a laughably conservative estimate)
If you study up on these details, you will see how its the most authentic book ever written, AND ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE. And I do NOT say that from faith, I say it from historical and secular evidence.
One way we can prove this though historiography, which is the study and authenticity of manuscripts. We can trace the manuscripts all the way back to within 30 years of the crucifixion. To give you an ideal of how amazing this is, the oldest copy of the most famous secular writings of this time are 1000+ years out of date. (the famous writing of Caesar from the 1st century.....the oldest manuscript is 1000 years out of date, Aristotle's are 1400 years, Homers writings....1400+ years)
Yet they can trace NT manuscripts back to within 30 years of Christ, and this number is continuing to shrink.
The evidence is totally undeniable and the total opposite of what you have been led to believe. And you can research this for yourself and prove it to yourself.
Something very special happened in the early days of the church that allows us to fully authenticate the early manuscripts more than any other book ever written in the whole world 2000 years after the fact. We do not have this ability in any other writings from antiquity, it is TOTALLY unique to the bible and the NT.
BTW- I strongly suggest watching the whole video but the juicy details begin after the 14:45 mark. Manuscript counts in the 22-27 minute range.
Yeah, you take that all on faith.
Why was nothing written about Jesus during his life, and we had to wait 30 years for anyone to write about him (Gospel of Mark supposedly)? He was walking all over the place performing miracles and no writings from his time exists. There were scholars in that time writing about that part of the world, yet none wrote of him?
I believe Jesus existed and was an amazing person. The Bible is what people after him decided they wanted included. The Nicence council, as was brought up earlier was put together at the of the behest of the emperor of Rome, tell me there wasn't an agenda beyond the truth.
Your video proves nothing other than that guy believes.
RE: *THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
(03-29-2015 11:07 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:
(03-28-2015 11:56 PM)gobluebigjon Wrote:
(03-26-2015 09:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: Why would the date of the Nicene Creed be relevant? Does anything in it contradict scripture?
Why am I to beilieve a group of guys who were put together by the emperor of Rome 300 years after the fact were right about Jesus? I could write plenty that doesn't contradict scripture.
You did not answer my second question. Does anything in it contradict scripture?
Quote:I still am curious as to what makes one a Christian, seems there are a lot of different ideas about that.
A sound biblical view of who God is, who Jesus is, what the scripture is, and a desire to first be about God's glory.
As i said, I could write plenty that doesn't contradict scripture. Doesn't make my writings the truth.
That's all nice and well, but there are plenty of people who think they are doing just what you said, Westboro come to mind, something tells me we can both agree that neither of us would consider them Christians.
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*THIS* is why Christans have to set up and call unbelievers non-christian
