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WMU under Hawk has fairly consistently had good big men. You pointed to Williams and Whitington, mentioned Reitz, I would add Kahn, Whitfield, Paul, and Stainbrook to the discussion. Also what is needed is a variety of threats, at least three players with differing skills. Kool and Reitz never had a reliable third. Williams had Kahn in the post and Reed outside, Shayne last year had Tava and Brown, and Haymond emerged in the MAC tournament. Stain had Paul and Brown. The common thread going through those years is a versatile dynamic guard (Reed, Kool, Brown), a mid range threat (Williams, Paul, Stain, Whitington) and a post threat (Kahn, Stain, Whitington, Tava). Big men are critical as they are the post threats, they can be shooters to complement the guards, and spread the floor creating space and making the team harder to defend. With only two threats like Rietz and Kool or Whitfield and Ward, it becomes to easy to shut down one, further in both of those teams a dynamic was missing either no shooter to open the middle or no post to keep a defender from stepping over/out.

With regards to bigs, what's the future for Khadim? Where do you see him fit in? With Lamont and now Dugan in the program it seems the post is solidified. Is KD athletic enough to play PF?

Quote:Also what is needed is a variety of threats, at least three players with differing skills.

A quality bench also helps.

Think about this.

Levi Rost, Bobby Madison, and Reggie Berry coming off the bench.

You can make the comparisons.

My point is that having the quality big as I described it, athletic, skilled and with length makes a significant difference. This year is the perfect case study.

All the same perimeters back with a the same bench just a year more developed.

I understand the injuries and sickness. But as at least one other convert said, Shayne's ability opened up opportunities for others. Something a Joe Reitz could never do. Again, not knocking Joe.

Most recently the ideal physical (not mental) front line had 6'7 Hutch at the 3. Played lock down, could fill the lane, could hit from outside and drive to finish (out of control). But his length on D was huge. But he was ONLY there because Darius could play the 4 and Shayne the 5 as I have described. Both long, athletic and skilled. Took O from Nate which was great. He was pyscho. But that front line could compete.

That was the season I was screaming to let the Dogs loose. Hawk and his system handcuffed the natural talent. Played not to lose.Playing Poke all those minutes instead of DB, Perry, Tava (3).
Perfect example was when at Toledo, Shayne went AWOL. Hawk basically had to turn DP loose. BAM! 28 and 16. Perfect example of the innate talent that gets hamstrung.

(03-21-2015 12:05 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  You don't have a big like Donald Lawson, who stoned two NBA power forwards (one from Temple and the other VCU)

13, 7 and 3 blocks is 'stoned'?

(03-21-2015 03:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 12:05 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  You don't have a big like Donald Lawson, who stoned two NBA power forwards (one from Temple and the other VCU)

13, 7 and 3 blocks is 'stoned'?

LaVoy Allen played in the league. May still be playing. Donald Lawson, much maligned player at WMU by many is playing in Germany. LaVoy was to "own" Donald. Donald had 14, 9 and 2 steals. He not only held Allen to 13 the offensively challenged DL was 5-9 FG and 4-5 FT. I'd say DL not only got the better of it, it qualifies as having stoned a pro.

That coming off doing the same 3 games before against VCU's Larry Sanders. Another draft pick and played in the NBA. Held Lar to single digits in pts and rebounds, hung 4 fouls on him while putting up 13, 11 and 2 blocks.

Hence DL's nickname, "Henge". As in ....

(03-21-2015 08:04 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 03:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 12:05 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  You don't have a big like Donald Lawson, who stoned two NBA power forwards (one from Temple and the other VCU)

13, 7 and 3 blocks is 'stoned'?

LaVoy Allen played in the league. May still be playing. Donald Lawson, much maligned player at WMU by many is playing in Germany. LaVoy was to "own" Donald. Donald had 14, 9 and 2 steals. He not only held Allen to 13 the offensively challenged DL was 5-9 FG and 4-5 FT. I'd say DL not only got the better of it, it qualifies as having stoned a pro.

That coming off doing the same 3 games before against VCU's Larry Sanders. Another draft pick and played in the NBA. Held Lar to single digits in pts and rebounds, hung 4 fouls on him while putting up 13, 11 and 2 blocks.

Hence DL's nickname, "Henge". As in ....

Lawson could have been a great player had he been redshirted his freshmen year. What we saw his senior year would have been that much better had we saw him again the following year.

This is my fear with Deing. Wasted a year, will start showing his skills his senior year, and we'll miss what the end product could have been.

(03-21-2015 08:16 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 08:04 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 03:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 12:05 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  You don't have a big like Donald Lawson, who stoned two NBA power forwards (one from Temple and the other VCU)

13, 7 and 3 blocks is 'stoned'?

LaVoy Allen played in the league. May still be playing. Donald Lawson, much maligned player at WMU by many is playing in Germany. LaVoy was to "own" Donald. Donald had 14, 9 and 2 steals. He not only held Allen to 13 the offensively challenged DL was 5-9 FG and 4-5 FT. I'd say DL not only got the better of it, it qualifies as having stoned a pro.

That coming off doing the same 3 games before against VCU's Larry Sanders. Another draft pick and played in the NBA. Held Lar to single digits in pts and rebounds, hung 4 fouls on him while putting up 13, 11 and 2 blocks.

Hence DL's nickname, "Henge". As in ....

Lawson could have been a great player had he been redshirted his freshmen year. What we saw his senior year would have been that much better had we saw him again the following year.

This is my fear with Deing. Wasted a year, will start showing his skills his senior year, and we'll miss what the end product could have been.

Sometimes things fall as they do. As you know Dan Hess's shoulder was bum and DL burned that year behind Joe. If me, I would have been tempted too but DL was so raw. Go with Hershberger backing up Joe. But I'm confident Hawk did what he thought best.

Re Deing he had already missed a year in HS. He likely didn't want to sit again even with the former Mattawan HC 'splaining in French.

The key here is get this kid to play rec ball with his teammates. Run up and down the floor working on his game. Rep after rep after rep.

Come the summer when they all reconvene Hawk MUST focus on getting this kid to play the 4. He isn't ever going to be more than 215 or so. Reportedly (Hawk chirped himself) the kid has skills. His IQ is what likely is lacking. Play play play till the cows come home then develop an O that can use a 7' 205lb 4 who can run and jump. Who can reportedly shoot with some range. Don't try to post him so he can muscle. Slash and dash. Slide and glide. Yes, duck in and post up sometimes but don't go Reitz on us. Please!!!!!!! Dugan and Lamont can be your guys in quick sand. Don't ruin this opportunity. And don't tell me you need Connar's toughness. This isn't wraslin. Connar should have been made to skip a speed rope 1,000 x a day. Drop 10 lbs. and shoot 500 J's a day from 15-20' a day. Play 1-1 against Tucker and DB til he passed out. He already can post up. He can already make a no look pass. He can already defend/ muscle in the post. Quit trying to make him fit this cockamamie 6'6 post paradigm. It hasn't worked to win a title and it wont.

This isn't wraslin

(03-21-2015 08:04 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 03:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 12:05 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  You don't have a big like Donald Lawson, who stoned two NBA power forwards (one from Temple and the other VCU)

13, 7 and 3 blocks is 'stoned'?

LaVoy Allen played in the league. May still be playing. Donald Lawson, much maligned player at WMU by many is playing in Germany. LaVoy was to "own" Donald. Donald had 14, 9 and 2 steals. He not only held Allen to 13 the offensively challenged DL was 5-9 FG and 4-5 FT. I'd say DL not only got the better of it, it qualifies as having stoned a pro.

That coming off doing the same 3 games before against VCU's Larry Sanders. Another draft pick and played in the NBA. Held Lar to single digits in pts and rebounds, hung 4 fouls on him while putting up 13, 11 and 2 blocks.

Hence DL's nickname, "Henge". As in ....

He's on the Pacers and the V isn't capitalized. Just because you're an NBA player doesn't mean you go for 20 and 20 against everyone. Even Okafor has had average games.

(03-21-2015 09:32 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 08:04 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 03:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 12:05 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  You don't have a big like Donald Lawson, who stoned two NBA power forwards (one from Temple and the other VCU)

13, 7 and 3 blocks is 'stoned'?

LaVoy Allen played in the league. May still be playing. Donald Lawson, much maligned player at WMU by many is playing in Germany. LaVoy was to "own" Donald. Donald had 14, 9 and 2 steals. He not only held Allen to 13 the offensively challenged DL was 5-9 FG and 4-5 FT. I'd say DL not only got the better of it, it qualifies as having stoned a pro.

That coming off doing the same 3 games before against VCU's Larry Sanders. Another draft pick and played in the NBA. Held Lar to single digits in pts and rebounds, hung 4 fouls on him while putting up 13, 11 and 2 blocks.

Hence DL's nickname, "Henge". As in ....

He's on the Pacers and the V isn't capitalized. Just because you're an NBA player doesn't mean you go for 20 and 20 against everyone. Even Okafor has had average games.

Pt. taken. Apology accepted.

No need to apologize. If anything, most Temple fans wanted more from Lavoy. He had his games, but he didn't dominate weaker bigs like he should've.

(03-21-2015 08:51 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 08:16 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 08:04 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 03:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-21-2015 12:05 AM)gobaseline Wrote:  You don't have a big like Donald Lawson, who stoned two NBA power forwards (one from Temple and the other VCU)

13, 7 and 3 blocks is 'stoned'?

LaVoy Allen played in the league. May still be playing. Donald Lawson, much maligned player at WMU by many is playing in Germany. LaVoy was to "own" Donald. Donald had 14, 9 and 2 steals. He not only held Allen to 13 the offensively challenged DL was 5-9 FG and 4-5 FT. I'd say DL not only got the better of it, it qualifies as having stoned a pro.

That coming off doing the same 3 games before against VCU's Larry Sanders. Another draft pick and played in the NBA. Held Lar to single digits in pts and rebounds, hung 4 fouls on him while putting up 13, 11 and 2 blocks.

Hence DL's nickname, "Henge". As in ....

Lawson could have been a great player had he been redshirted his freshmen year. What we saw his senior year would have been that much better had we saw him again the following year.

This is my fear with Deing. Wasted a year, will start showing his skills his senior year, and we'll miss what the end product could have been.

Sometimes things fall as they do. As you know Dan Hess's shoulder was bum and DL burned that year behind Joe. If me, I would have been tempted too but DL was so raw. Go with Hershberger backing up Joe. But I'm confident Hawk did what he thought best.

Re Deing he had already missed a year in HS. He likely didn't want to sit again even with the former Mattawan HC 'splaining in French.

The key here is get this kid to play rec ball with his teammates. Run up and down the floor working on his game. Rep after rep after rep.

Come the summer when they all reconvene Hawk MUST focus on getting this kid to play the 4. He isn't ever going to be more than 215 or so. Reportedly (Hawk chirped himself) the kid has skills. His IQ is what likely is lacking. Play play play till the cows come home then develop an O that can use a 7' 205lb 4 who can run and jump. Who can reportedly shoot with some range. Don't try to post him so he can muscle. Slash and dash. Slide and glide. Yes, duck in and post up sometimes but don't go Reitz on us. Please!!!!!!! Dugan and Lamont can be your guys in quick sand. Don't ruin this opportunity. And don't tell me you need Connar's toughness. This isn't wraslin. Connar should have been made to skip a speed rope 1,000 x a day. Drop 10 lbs. and shoot 500 J's a day from 15-20' a day. Play 1-1 against Tucker and DB til he passed out. He already can post up. He can already make a no look pass. He can already defend/ muscle in the post. Quit trying to make him fit this cockamamie 6'6 post paradigm. It hasn't worked to win a title and it wont.

Well said.