(03-04-2015 05:00 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:44 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:39 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My son is in the running for the gifted program (we find out any day). His biggest hurdle is being white because they want more blacks in the program. So in other words, instead of expanding the program to include everyone who needs it, my child is at risk of being left behind because he is white and his parents have a good income.

if he is excluded but otherwise qualified academically it is a pretty good argument for switching the young man into private school.

It is, but I am not sure $12k per year for first grade is necessary. Certainly a strong consideration for middle and high school.

$12K is steep. Maybe shop around as you might find a private school that is less costly but still really good. It could be worth it to pay the $12K though, if that is your only option and you can swing it, as you have to do everything possible to give your kid the best education. By middle school or high school he might develop bad, lazy habits from not being challenged.

If you can't find a private school that you can afford and he is left out of the gifted program, take it upon yourself to supplement his education with private language classes, trips to museums, lots of reading, etc.

It's worth every penny spent to give your kid a great education. It's the best start in life you can give him.

Not sure we could swing it due to having a 2nd on the way and we made poor financial decisions when we were younger. There are cheaper private schools, but I am not really interested in any of them. We'll see, keeping our fingers crossed.

You are certifiably CLUELESS. Where would you direct those concerns brainiac? and again tell me where outspoken public school teachers have propagated the current dire straits we are confronted with. Care to answer this or will you run away again for a couple of months as your mouth writes checks your a** can't cash. Who propagated the common core? Teachers? Who propagated accountability testing and end of course exams? Teachers? Who increased graduation requirements? K-12 teachers? (that one was higher ed, but they screwed K-12 in the process)

(03-04-2015 05:06 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 05:02 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  By middle school or high school he might develop bad, lazy habits from not being challenged.


This is a huge problem. You have the kid that is so gifted he doesn't learn how to study. He was never challenged. Then when the world does become challenging he can't adapt because he doesn't have the skills to pay the bills. I am very sympathetic to that kid and it is a damn shame. I'm actually disgusted by that and it's a HUGE ASS problem that is unfortunately getting worse.

We are of one mind when it comes to this. School districts spend the lionshare of the resources on the bottom third of students based on ability.

School boards and administrators just assume the smart kids will get through and be fine, ignoring the fact that smart kids will never live up to their highest potential if they are allowed to skate through the lower grades on their ability and aren't continually challenged.

I would probably agree with him if I knew for sure he wasn't lying. I mean someone capable of slandering another poster and not admitting it is capable of lying about anything. He very well could be just pulling everyone's chain...who knows.

Bless your heart Kaplony.

it's been a death by a thousand cuts............ Some cuts deliberate. Some cuts by good intentions. Some cuts by ignorance.

(03-04-2015 04:49 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:44 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:39 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My son is in the running for the gifted program (we find out any day). His biggest hurdle is being white because they want more blacks in the program. So in other words, instead of expanding the program to include everyone who needs it, my child is at risk of being left behind because he is white and his parents have a good income.

if he is excluded but otherwise qualified academically it is a pretty good argument for switching the young man into private school.

It is, but I am not sure $12k per year for first grade is necessary. Certainly a strong consideration for middle and high school.

$12k? There are several in and around Charlotte for $4k-6k. If I were in a school district there's no doubt I'd send him to private school.

That's cheap. Private schools, non church related, around my neck of the woods are around $17k. Church affiliated schools are around $7k I believe. We'll look at private schools around middle school age. I couldn't justify spending college tuition on kindergarten.

Where would you direct those concerns brainiac? and again tell me where outspoken public school teachers have propagated the current dire straits we are confronted with. Care to answer this or will you run away again for a couple of months as your mouth writes checks your a** can't cash. Who propagated the common core? Teachers? Who propagated accountability testing and end of course exams? Teachers? Who increased graduation requirements? K-12 teachers? (that one was higher ed, but they screwed K-12 in the process)

Still waiting on Torch?

(03-04-2015 05:35 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:49 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:44 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:39 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My son is in the running for the gifted program (we find out any day). His biggest hurdle is being white because they want more blacks in the program. So in other words, instead of expanding the program to include everyone who needs it, my child is at risk of being left behind because he is white and his parents have a good income.

if he is excluded but otherwise qualified academically it is a pretty good argument for switching the young man into private school.

It is, but I am not sure $12k per year for first grade is necessary. Certainly a strong consideration for middle and high school.

$12k? There are several in and around Charlotte for $4k-6k. If I were in a school district there's no doubt I'd send him to private school.

That's cheap. Private schools, non church related, around my neck of the woods are around $17k. Church affiliated schools are around $7k I believe. We'll look at private schools around middle school age. I couldn't justify spending college tuition on kindergarten.

Smart

(03-04-2015 04:55 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If you guys only knew where to direct your anger. It's been a death by a thousand cuts. The biggest cut being an increase in graduation requirements. When I first started teaching you needed one math and one science credit to graduate. Freshman level was the standard you neededto achieve to graduate and that truly was the standard that most kids could and should be able to meet. Then they increased it to two, then 3. Now it's 4 math credits and 3 science credits. Every Tom, Dick and Sherry needs to pass an end of course exam in that year of study. Where would you spend the majority of your time and effort. Would you focus on the top 20%? Would you make the class so demanding that your upper 20% actually have to work their tail off to get a B? When you make it so hard the bottom 50% don't have a chance.

Ignorant fools say: Let's make teachers more accountable!!!!! Screw them and their unions! Well guess what brainiacs we're smarter than that. You're not going to write off half of your class. You are going to lower expectations in a big way. You are going to make a D level student feel like a B student. You have totally changed the dynamic, and you are not smart enough to realize it.

You can't be the hammer anymore. You have to be a velvet glove. You have to make Sherry and Johnny like you. If not they will tank on you out of spite. I CAN GAURAN FCKIN TEEEEE kids would quit on a guy like TORCH in a second. He couldn't motivate a general population kid to tear a wet paper bag. It's a different society and if you want to survive in a public education environment you better learn this lesson quick. (btw my school was ranked in the US NEWS and World Report as an excellent HS)

I had a kid fail his English OGT his sophomore year because he hated the English teacher and he was going to show her. Guess what? That sentiment is out there. I'm telling you..... we focus on the bottom 30% because that's where you will get the biggest bang for your buck. It's pathetic. I hate it, but this is the system OUR POLITICIANS have created. You are completely and utterly CLUELESS IF YOU THINK this disaster has been created by teachers. We are along for the ride and we have been saying it to everyone that will listen. The biggest obstacle has been the added requirements to graduate. Then add on the proficiency aspect of it. I would bet you my left testicle that the US does the best in getting up the general population to a certain level. Hell in other countries they probably write off 50% right off the bat. You are comparing probably their top 10% with our general population. It's not comparative and it's certainly not surprising to anybody.

Successful education is predicated on three factors: the students, the teachers and parents. The fact that you prefer to exempt teachers from blame when they are just as culpable as parents and students is telling. I'm sure you feel that 'Waiting for Superman' was a Koch Brothers sponsored hit piece.

That being said, you are correct regarding the false comparisons that typically made between US and Worldwide education standards. Most of schools outside America track students for either college prep or vo-tech tracks as early as 5th or 6th grades. The metric I think is more telling about public school education is the level of remediations most freshman have to receive once they enter college.

(03-04-2015 04:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My son is in the running for the gifted program (we find out any day). His biggest hurdle is being white because they want more blacks in the program. So in other words, instead of expanding the program to include everyone who needs it, my child is at risk of being left behind because he is white and his parents have a good income.

Ever, go and find out what the gifted program entails. You may find out it's not what you think.

I had one of mine put into the program - all they did was give the gifted kids extra homework. They never took them any farther academically - nothing more, just extra homework. After one year, we took him out of it - it was a waste. Didn't have a negative effect on him - he later graduated in the to 20% of his law class.

I'll never forget the look on that teachers face when we opted out..........and I come from a family of educators.

I think we need to go with the German model and separate the kids in 8th grade. Don't the Germans (and most Europeans) identify which kids should go on to college and which kids should learn a trade? Not all kids are fit for college.

I also think we need to go back to teaching basics (math, English, history, & science) and drop all the self-esteem and multicultural crap.

(03-04-2015 08:18 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I think we need to go with the German model and separate the kids in 8th grade. Don't the Germans (and most Europeans) identify which kids should go on to college and which kids should learn a trade? Not all kids are fit for college.

I also think we need to go back to teaching basics (math, English, history, & science) and drop all the self-esteem and multicultural crap.

Agree 100%.

(03-04-2015 08:18 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I think we need to go with the German model and separate the kids in 8th grade. Don't the Germans (and most Europeans) identify which kids should go on to college and which kids should learn a trade? Not all kids are fit for college.

I also think we need to go back to teaching basics (math, English, history, & science) and drop all the self-esteem and multicultural crap.

In a perfect world full of rational people, making that determination in 7-8th grade would make sense.

There are definitely kids in college who have no business being there as they are unprepared academically, lack study skills, motivation and aptitude to complete a degree program. It is part of the reason colleges are bogged down with providing remedial classes at the college level (on a side note the providing of remedial coursework to college students is a very small part of why college costs so much more now)...things like Algebra I and grammar and punctuation. Sorry if a student didn't take and pass Algebra 1 or can't write using basic grammar and punctuation, that student has no business being enrolled in college.

However, we have parents who get all up in arms and head down to the school office to berate the teacher and the principal if their kid gets a bad grade or get in trouble at school. Can you imagine how ballistic these parents would be if Johnny or Susie doesn't make the college cut and is relegated to votech school?

While it makes sense to set kids on a path from which they are most likely to see success i.e. college v votech, the reality is we have too many numbskull parents to ever have it become a reality.

We're built on the idea of raising the standards of the group which actually surprises me some. Our country values the individual until it comes to education. As soon as you grade the teacher by the success of the whole Expect that outcome. We're average! Yeah!

(03-04-2015 08:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We're built on the idea of raising the standards of the group which actually surprises me some. Our country values the individual until it comes to education. As soon as you grade the teacher by the success of the whole Expect that outcome. We're average! Yeah!

Mach, I think the focusing on the dumbest comes from the notion that if we can raise the dumbest up, they won't become the next generation on the welfare roles. Well, obviously that has failed miserably, but in the meantime, we squandered our valuable resources - not on the smartest, or even the average, but the dumbest.

Boy, this direction sure has been successful.

One size fits all education! Whoohoo!!!!

(03-04-2015 07:59 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My son is in the running for the gifted program (we find out any day). His biggest hurdle is being white because they want more blacks in the program. So in other words, instead of expanding the program to include everyone who needs it, my child is at risk of being left behind because he is white and his parents have a good income.

Ever, go and find out what the gifted program entails. You may find out it's not what you think.

I had one of mine put into the program - all they did was give the gifted kids extra homework. They never took them any farther academically - nothing more, just extra homework. After one year, we took him out of it - it was a waste. Didn't have a negative effect on him - he later graduated in the to 20% of his law class.

I'll never forget the look on that teachers face when we opted out..........and I come from a family of educators.

In Newport News, the reason to go in the program is so they are around better kids. You can't completely shelter them, but this is a rough town to be in gen pop. It will absolutely make a big difference.

(03-04-2015 08:57 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 07:59 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 04:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My son is in the running for the gifted program (we find out any day). His biggest hurdle is being white because they want more blacks in the program. So in other words, instead of expanding the program to include everyone who needs it, my child is at risk of being left behind because he is white and his parents have a good income.

Ever, go and find out what the gifted program entails. You may find out it's not what you think.

I had one of mine put into the program - all they did was give the gifted kids extra homework. They never took them any farther academically - nothing more, just extra homework. After one year, we took him out of it - it was a waste. Didn't have a negative effect on him - he later graduated in the to 20% of his law class.

I'll never forget the look on that teachers face when we opted out..........and I come from a family of educators.

In Newport News, the reason to go in the program is so they are around better kids. You can't completely shelter them, but this is a rough town to be in gen pop. It will absolutely make a big difference.

Point taken. In your district it could be good regardless of the education angle. Oh yeah, welcome to affirmative action.

(03-04-2015 08:18 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I think we need to go with the German model and separate the kids in 8th grade. Don't the Germans (and most Europeans) identify which kids should go on to college and which kids should learn a trade? Not all kids are fit for college.

I also think we need to go back to teaching basics (math, English, history, & science) and drop all the self-esteem and multicultural crap.

That's a little early IMO but I agree with the concept. I think after / mid 10th grade might make more sense. That still leaves 2 full years to transition towards the trades. That's the same year most college-bound HS students start taking their college prep seriously.

Been saying for years....instead of cities all over the country shuttering schools (especially in poorer areas) co-op the facilities and curriculum with places like Vatterott and Remington and actually churn out some productive citizens.

Get local business to buy in and guarantee apprenticeships for these kids, provide some form of mentoring program, provide transportation.

You think the teachers union would go for that Mach?

Well **** no they wouldn't

The biggest issue is relocating them when they graduate. You can have all the trade training in the world, but it won't do any good unless there are jobs, which don't usually exist locally.