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Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #361
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
(11-12-2017 08:57 AM)Lush Wrote:  i'm sure you've heard this many times, but being born in the western civilization predisposes you to believing christianity. what makes your god any better than any other? it doesn't take much for me to believe that there is a god. i don't need tales of miracles and superstition, parables, etc... god is the universe

i also wonder, if satan knew what was to be expected of turning on god, what was his purpose? that is, if he knew an eternal damnation was in store, why would he pursue down that road? god and satan are cohorts in cahoots. god needs satan just as much as satan needs god. as in everything else. the non duality

Since we have a connection in our appreciation for music Lush, let me chime in for the good, faithful Brother, eric. As to your first question, it really comes down to your personal conviction in truth and faith as to what God you believe in (or no God at all). It's hard for me to put into words why I believe in the Christian God outside of what is contained in the Holy Bible because it is based on a personal relationship. The God-Christ I worship and follow is alive and is not some statue, ritual or based on someone else's claim. I have experienced His blessings, peace, answered prayers and eternal truths that is just hard to explain to someone else. I know you are an avid reader so if you are willing I would recommend a concise, interesting non-fiction read (170 pages) titled "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell/Sean McDowell. The basic premise is the author was a skeptic of Jesus Christ's claims that He is God and set out to disprove it through research of the facts in 1976. Over the course of his research, Josh ended up believing that Christ is God and His claims are real. Another book I have not read yet and recommended by my uncle is "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity" by Nabeel Qureshi. This one chronicles the journey of a passionate Muslim who comes to believe in and converts to Christianity. Either of these may give you a different perspective outside of the Holy Scriptures.

Regarding your second question, I don't have any evidence that Satan knew what he was getting into with his rebellion but choices can be made. Here on earth, people know murder is a crime with consequences but some do it anyway. The act of sin blinds hearts from the truth. God knew Satan would fall and sin would result from man because we are imperfect and that was part of God's plan. I also don't have any evidence but I'm not so sure Satan knows yet that he is eternally damned. God left him with powers for a time until, as eric cites above, the final judgment is rendered by Christ Jesus for all (fallen angels and human beings) that reject Christ as God. God uses Satan and sin for His purposes and not the other way around. It's all about our conviction to confess that we have to have Jesus Christ in our faith to overcome sin, death and final judgment. Christ had to die (as part man) for all sin for all time because the wages of sin is death. He paid the price for us so we can be redeemed and escape final judgment through Him. It's really rather direct and quite simple when it comes down to the brass tax so to speak. However, simply believing is not always that easy. That leads back to your first question...
11-12-2017 01:18 PM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #362
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
you're choosing jesus christ, etc.. as your savior because you don't want to spend an eternity in hell. why is the 'what if i'm wrong?' even a possible question to worry about? even though, i admit, the thought creeps into my head from time to time. why is man so special, of everything he created, only allowed at the pearly gates? is there a place in heaven for the rocks he created? etcetera.

would it be better if i stopped posing so many questions and turn them into sentences? it seems like i'm trying to convince you that you are wrong. i'm not sure if that's my intention. though, it is exciting to find you think you've stumbled upon a contradiction. of course, if you're not familiar with the particular religious text, it's probably wise to expect you need to channel your thoughts elsewhere. can we at least agree that god doesn't look like a human and we probably won't look like we look like now in what's after?
11-27-2017 11:33 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #363
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
(11-27-2017 11:33 AM)Lush Wrote:  you're choosing jesus christ, etc.. as your savior because you don't want to spend an eternity in hell. why is the 'what if i'm wrong?' even a possible question to worry about? even though, i admit, the thought creeps into my head from time to time. why is man so special, of everything he created, only allowed at the pearly gates? is there a place in heaven for the rocks he created? etcetera.

would it be better if i stopped posing so many questions and turn them into sentences? it seems like i'm trying to convince you that you are wrong. i'm not sure if that's my intention. though, it is exciting to find you think you've stumbled upon a contradiction. of course, if you're not familiar with the particular religious text, it's probably wise to expect you need to channel your thoughts elsewhere. can we at least agree that god doesn't look like a human and we probably won't look like we look like now in what's after?



Quite simply, we believe because of EVIDENCE and FACTS.

I don't believe in Christ because it sounds good or makes me feel better. I believe because I examined the evidence thoroughly because I wanted to know the truth, and not rely on the opinions of others.

The truth is I was a non-believer for 40 years. I came to a point in my life when I wanted to know if there was any real proof or evidence to believe in the bible, so I began to SERIOUSLY research it.

The bible is written specifically to PROVE its the Word of God to the reader, particularity to the end time believer like us. This is what separates Christianity and the Bible from all other religions, it PROVES itself. It does this by foretelling the entire future of Israel, Christ, and the church age, and the end times all long before Jesus was ever born. Sitting here in 2017 AD, over 2600 years after these things were written, the facts and evidence that have unfolded over the last 2000+ years (even into modern times) are undeniable, even from a secular point of view.

Other religions like Islam and others offer ZERO proof or tangible evidence of proof at all. They don't even try. They are based on 100% totally blind faith.

When the dead sea scrolls were found in 1947, they included virtually the entire OT, and the recovered scrolls of these books all predate Christ, Christianity and the destruction of Israel in 70 AD by 2-3 centuries. These copies of the OT were over 1000 years older than anything ever found before that time. Its not an accident the scrolls were found at the exact same time Israel was being reborn in the aftermath of WW2 and the holocaust, ending a Biblical prophesied 1900+ year diaspora of the Jews across the entire world. Since then, we have found even more translations and copies that also predate Christ. The Septuagint (the Hebrew bible, the OT) was translated into Greek in about 200-300 BC.

Quite simply, when you have examined the actual evidence we have today, it takes far more faith to deny it than to believe.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 09:18 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
11-28-2017 10:41 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #364
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
(11-12-2017 01:18 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 08:57 AM)Lush Wrote:  i'm sure you've heard this many times, but being born in the western civilization predisposes you to believing christianity. what makes your god any better than any other? it doesn't take much for me to believe that there is a god. i don't need tales of miracles and superstition, parables, etc... god is the universe

i also wonder, if satan knew what was to be expected of turning on god, what was his purpose? that is, if he knew an eternal damnation was in store, why would he pursue down that road? god and satan are cohorts in cahoots. god needs satan just as much as satan needs god. as in everything else. the non duality

Since we have a connection in our appreciation for music Lush, let me chime in for the good, faithful Brother, eric. As to your first question, it really comes down to your personal conviction in truth and faith as to what God you believe in (or no God at all). It's hard for me to put into words why I believe in the Christian God outside of what is contained in the Holy Bible because it is based on a personal relationship. The God-Christ I worship and follow is alive and is not some statue, ritual or based on someone else's claim. I have experienced His blessings, peace, answered prayers and eternal truths that is just hard to explain to someone else. I know you are an avid reader so if you are willing I would recommend a concise, interesting non-fiction read (170 pages) titled "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell/Sean McDowell. The basic premise is the author was a skeptic of Jesus Christ's claims that He is God and set out to disprove it through research of the facts in 1976. Over the course of his research, Josh ended up believing that Christ is God and His claims are real. Another book I have not read yet and recommended by my uncle is "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity" by Nabeel Qureshi. This one chronicles the journey of a passionate Muslim who comes to believe in and converts to Christianity. Either of these may give you a different perspective outside of the Holy Scriptures.

Regarding your second question, I don't have any evidence that Satan knew what he was getting into with his rebellion but choices can be made. Here on earth, people know murder is a crime with consequences but some do it anyway. The act of sin blinds hearts from the truth. God knew Satan would fall and sin would result from man because we are imperfect and that was part of God's plan. I also don't have any evidence but I'm not so sure Satan knows yet that he is eternally damned. God left him with powers for a time until, as eric cites above, the final judgment is rendered by Christ Jesus for all (fallen angels and human beings) that reject Christ as God. God uses Satan and sin for His purposes and not the other way around. It's all about our conviction to confess that we have to have Jesus Christ in our faith to overcome sin, death and final judgment. Christ had to die (as part man) for all sin for all time because the wages of sin is death. He paid the price for us so we can be redeemed and escape final judgment through Him. It's really rather direct and quite simple when it comes down to the brass tax so to speak. However, simply believing is not always that easy. That leads back to your first question...



On point as always, my brother. Excellent post.

Josh McDowell's "Evidence that demands a verdict" is also really good, and also chronicles the evidence and how Josh was converted in '76 after researching the facts.

Its life changing evidence and facts for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2017 09:55 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
11-29-2017 09:31 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #365
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
Pretty epic presentation showing all the connections of events/signs in the heavens and on earth we have seen the last few years. Including the rise of Donald Trump as our POTUS and a world leader.

As always, there is no date setting here, just God's watchmen showing all the signs and events of the season we are so clearly in.

God Bless





(This post was last modified: 08-13-2018 07:14 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
08-10-2018 06:41 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #366
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
As today is the recognition of the Mount of Tribulation (where the apostles doubted Jesus) I felt I should bump this.
08-21-2018 12:03 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #367
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
(08-21-2018 12:03 PM)Dasville Wrote:  As today is the recognition of the Mount of Tribulation (where the apostles doubted Jesus) I felt I should bump this.




I think you meant the mount of "transfiguration". Where you get the doubted part, I'm not sure. It would be an epic stretch to say they doubted Jesus here when they saw Him transfigured and heard the voice of God say "This is my Son".

Matthew 17:1-9

After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” 8 When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.

9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2018 10:31 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
08-21-2018 11:50 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #368
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
Luke 8:5-14

5 “A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. 6 Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.”

When he said this, he called out, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”

9 His disciples asked him what this parable meant.

10 He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you (believers), but to others (non-believers) I speak in parables, so that,

“‘though seeing, they may not see;
though hearing, they may not understand.’
(Isaiah 6:9)

11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature.
15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2018 10:29 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
08-22-2018 05:55 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #369
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
What the lost today do not yet understand is how easy and simple a thing Salvation and eternal life really is. Their hearts and minds have been so deceived by satan and tempted by their own lusts and desires for earthly pleasures, they are not even open to seeing hardcore facts and truth even when it sits right in front of their eyes. Even when people shake them and scream "LOOK!". And that type of blindness should not be a hard thing to believe in our politically charged modern world, people are addicted to creating their OWN truth, as opposed to seeking actual truth. Truth is relative in our modern society.

And I speak this not from a position of being better than anyone, I too am a lifelong sinner and was lost from the Truth and God for 40 years of my life. I know exactly were many are coming from, because I came from there myself. I was taught to believe in Jesus as a child when I would go to church and about the story, but I was never taught WHY to believe in Jesus over any other God or religion. So as I grew into an adult I had no basis and no understanding of WHY I should follow Christ and believe in the Bible as God's Word.

But I came to place and time in my life where I really struggled to believe that the entire universe just blinked into existence from total nothingness, or that the whole world and universe was just totally random, and my life was totally random, and the moment I die everything about me just instantly vanished into total and complete, eternal nothingness in the blink of an eye. So I wanted to know was there any evidence at all to believe in the Bible and Christ, or was there evidence to believe in Allah and Mohommad, or Buddha or any other of the countless gods in the world.

But when you get serious and seriously dig into these questions and seek out the facts, (that is FACTS completely removed from my own biases or wishes) there is one conclusion : ALL religions on earth are based on 100% BLIND FAITH with ZERO tangible evidence at all to them being fact-based with any tangible evidence of divinity.

Except one........THE BIBLE. It doesn't just have a little proof and evidence, or a few accidental points of evidence, the ENTIRE thing is laid out with a central purpose of PROVING itself through written recorded SECULAR history in literally thousands of ways in stunningly defined and hidden details. Indeed if the bible were not true, Christianity, the Chruch, Jesus and the entire thing would not even exist today. It would have been totally destroyed by Rome, and the OT texts proved themselves to be fantasy and totally untrue sitting here in 2018. They would be exposed as a total fabrication.

You may ask yourself well how is that even possible if there is so much overwhelming and concrete evidence? How can I never have been told these things and why have I been told 180 degrees opposite of that from birth by Television, movies and the whole world?

Because the Bible is true, which means Satan spiritually rules over the entire world today, and the entire world is set up as a deception to deceive everyone and turn them away from their Father in Heaven and His Son.

But you CAN be saved out of this world and that strong deception, when you TRULY seek Him with all your heart and mind, and truly believe and humble yourself to Him as He says. It is God Himself who grants us this type of Faith as a gift for those who have come to Him in such a manner, and its a little different for all who do. Some are given such strong faith, they just believe blindly without doubt. Some are weak and stubborn like me, and need proof and evidence to ignite my faith, but He grants that and reveals those things to help ignite and strengthen my faith as He see's best for each person. Both through the Holy Spirit and through the Word of God.

AMEN!
08-28-2018 01:00 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #370
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
https://www.unsealed.org/2019/01/a-sign-...stars.html


In Luke 21, the Lord Jesus told His disciples that there would be "great signs" in the heavens (Lk. 21:11) and further stated:

There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.

- Luke 21:25


There are only two signs in the entire Bible called "great signs" (σημεῖα μεγάλα in the Greek) and these are found in Revelation 12:1–2 and Revelation 15:1. The former has been a centerpiece of discussion here since 2012 because the astronomical alignment on September 23–24, 2017 perfectly matched the description given in John's vision. That's truly phenomenal. Furthermore, Jesus said there would be signs in the sun, moon, and stars and the vision of an astronomical sign in Revelation 12:1–2 is the only sign in the entire Bible that simultaneously contains all three. That's also phenomenal. More pastors, teachers, and students of Bible prophecy should be engaged and aware of what's happening, because it's happening whether or not it fits within your dogma. It is what it is.

I'm reminded of the resurgence of Christian scholarship in the 19th century which began to recognize the literal truth of Bible prophecy—dispensationalism was the natural result of a literal interpretation of Scripture. When Jesus came the first time, He fulfilled well over one hundred prophecies literally. Yet, when it comes to events surrounding His return, for which there are a far greater number of prophecies, Christianity has typically applied allegorism to virtually all but the most essential predictions. That's faulty on its face. There is certainly such a thing as apocalyptic literature and apocalyptic literature certainly contains symbols, but these symbols are often—if not always—defined in the text. When symbols are not used, we are in the wrong for allegorizing what was intended to be a clear, literal message of warning to the world. Have no doubt about it: the remaining prophecies will be fulfilled just as they were written.

When those 19th century scholars began accepting God's word at face value, they came to the inevitable conclusion that the Church, composed of Jews and Gentiles believing in Jesus in this present age, had not replaced the nation of Israel. There were still numerous promises yet to be fulfilled, which were made to the Israelite nation. Yet that meant that the Jewish people would necessarily return to the Holy Land and the nation would be reconstituted.

When these dispensationalists predicted that the long-lost nation would return, they were mocked and ridiculed for believing in something so apparently absurd. Yet they were right... because they believed God's word. And here we are nearly two centuries later and Israel is firmly planted in their ancient homeland, Jerusalem is in the hands of the Jews, and even the country's biblical-legal identity has been restored.

Now another major biblical prophecy has transpired—namely, the "great sign" in the sun, moon, and stars of Revelation 12—and the media and the world have simply laughed it off. And many Christian leaders have trumpeted out tired, old canards to dismiss what so clearly happened just over one year ago. Underlying every dismissal was a plain disregard for the literal truth of what was prophesied to happen and the implication for what's coming ever-nearer (the harpazó of the Church described in Rev. 12:5).

To the allegorist, this prophecy has nothing to do with the sun, moon, and stars, and everything to do with a look back into the past when Christ was born to Mary and ascended into Heaven. Yet John described a "great sign" in the sky—involving sun, moon, and stars—and John's visions, recorded years after Jerusalem's downfall in 70 AD, were prophetic (Rev. 1:1, 19; 4:1; 7:14; 19–22), not unnecessary jaunts through times past.

Christ, Mary, Herod, and the Ascension, definitely formed the template upon which Revelation 12:1–5 is based, but the actual prophecy has nothing to do with any of those.

The woman represents earthly Israel (c.f. Gen. 37:9–10; Hos. 2:19; c.f. Isa. 26:17–21; 66:7–9), as well as Heavenly Zion, the barren woman longing to give birth to her children (Gal. 4:26–31; c.f. Isa. 54).

The dragon represents satan and his dominion (Rev. 12:9; 13:1–2).

And the male child represents the Church, which is snatched (harpazó'd) to Heaven to escape the coming dragon (Rev. 12:5). Jesus was never snatched out of harm's way. He rose again victoriously and ascended (anabainó) with no threat posed against His power whatsoever, but only after His resurrection.

Furthermore, John explicitly connects the male child of Revelation 12 to the male child of Isaiah 66 by using the abnormal grammatical term huion arsen—the exact same term used in Isaiah 66 (LXX) to describe a corporate entity, a nation, born to Israel. This entity is born before Israel goes into labor and Israel's labor is the Tribulation (c.f. Isa. 66:7–9; Jer. 30:6–7; Mt. 24:8; 1 Thess. 5:3).

But the most obvious discrepancy in the narrative, if Jesus is in view, is that satan actually did get Jesus when he possessed Judas (Lk. 22:3) who betrayed Jesus over to the Jewish authorities to be crucified. The male child of Revelation 12 escapes altogether.

[Image: MaleChild.jpg]
01-25-2019 12:05 AM
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Post: #371
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
Wow. I just thought it was a firefly I saw.
02-06-2019 04:04 PM
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Post: #372
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
https://www.unsealed.org/2019/03/revelat...is-of.html


Revelation 12 is a fascinating chapter. Up to this point in the book of Revelation, we have seen views of end time events in the throne room of God in heaven (the “third heaven”, where God dwells). We have also seen views on earth and in the atmosphere (the “first heaven”). Now, in chapter 12, we are privileged to see a view of end time events as they appear in the universe/space (the “second heaven”), as well as in the first and third heavens.

Revelation 12 uniquely gives an overview of the entire Tribulation Week (Time of Jacob’s Trouble) from all 3 vantage points – the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd heavens.

An overview of the entire tribulation period, you say? Well, I want you to consider the structure of the book of Revelation itself. It seems that in his visions, John is first given a sweeping overview, followed by what I call "detail pop-outs". These details are given in separate parts of his visions, after the overview. I believe this is the structure of Revelation chapter 12 as well. I suggest to you that verses 1-6 give an overview, and the rest of the chapter fills in the details.


Verse 1 - And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

There is no reason to believe anything other than that this is a literal alignment that appears in the heavens (constellations – second heaven – space). God placed the sun, moon, and the stars deliberately, and He controls their movements (Genesis 1:14).
The only woman constellation is Virgo. While “Virgo” is the corrupted astrological name for the constellation, in the Mazzaroth (God’s redemption plan in the heavens) Virgo is generally considered to represent Israel. At this point in time, the woman is in unbelief (believing Jews are instead considered part of the church).
This vision of John’s is reminiscent of Joseph’s dream in Genesis 37:9-11.
This sign, in its completion, seems to appear in the heavens in one time only in human history – September 23, 2017.


Verse 2 - She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.

The heavens obviously can’t be pregnant, but the theme of labor pains and birth is used to describe the “discomfort” of the end of the age in multiple places in scripture. (Isaiah 26; Matthew 24). It’s interesting that the woman is described as already in birth pains and in the agony of giving birth here, before the dragon is described.
It’s possible the crying out in verse 2 illustrates the early fulfillment of Ezekiel’s vision of the Valley of Dry Bones (Ezekiel 37), where Israel is restored nationally and physically before she is restored spiritually. This is described in Isaiah 26 as Israel laboring by herself (without God) to attempt to obtain deliverance. The woman is clearly Israel, and it is her who is in pain.
God is not about to bring to the point of birth without delivery (Isaiah 66:9). Israel is about to enter TRUE birth pains, and receive TRUE deliverance.


Verse 3 - And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.

This is “another sign”, separate and distinct from the “great sign” in verses 1-2. This sign has prompted a whole host of speculations as to what it might be!
The dragon constellations include Draco, Serpens, and Hydra. Will any or all of these be involved in the sign of the red dragon? What about the yearly Draconid meteor showers in the fall? What about Planet X? Some people suspect a mysterious planet or planetary system could be involved.
Maybe the dragon sign won't be in the sun, moon, and stars at all - maybe it's a separate kind of sign from the "great sign". As of the time of this post, no one is truly sure how the dragon sign will play out, although it will likely become clear as the time of its fulfillment is imminent. I am inclined to agree that we probably won't physically see a sign.
The seven-headed, ten-horned dragon, however the sign plays out, is clearly a reference to satan. (We are explicitly told this in Revelation 12:9 and 20:2)
Elsewhere, we see a seven-headed, ten-horned Beast (Daniel & Revelation), which is also satan, or the human kings he controls. The heads are wearing diadems (like crowns); we are told they are kings.


Verse 4 - His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.

The Bible refers to angels as “stars of heaven” multiple times, such as in Job 38:7. It seems that this third of the stars of heaven is quite possibly referring to the portion of the angelic host that joined satan/Lucifer in his initial rebellion (Isaiah 14:12-15, Ezekiel 28:12-17). When they fell, they were cast to the earth, where they are now the powers, principalities, and rulers of this present world (Ephesians 6:12).
If verse 4 is giving an overview of the "war in heaven", then this casting down of stars to the earth would suggest the fallen angelic host will no longer have access to the third heaven, where God dwells. While satan has this privilege currently, we are not told if his horde does or not.
There may be a connection between this event and Seal 6, in which “stars fall from the sky” (Revelation 6:13). If this connection is valid, then it seems that the fallen angels will somehow be involved in the fulfillment of the so-called dragon sign. ("alien invasion" anyone?)
Note that the dragon isn’t actually devouring the woman or her child, but is anticipating devouring her child. He wants to, but the child hasn't been born yet.
One might say the dragon is being restrained from devouring the child (wink, wink).


Verse 7 - Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back,

“Now” brings us to a different part of the vision, referencing back to the dragon of verse 3-4. This seems to lend credence to the view that verses 1-6 are an overview, and we are about to be filled in with the details, starting with the dragon.
Is the war in heaven when the child is snatched? Is it when the woman flees? We are not told what causes the battle, but the most likely scenario in my opinion would be the rapture of the Church. John MacArthur makes the interesting suggestion that the prince of the power of the air and his demon hosts may try to hinder the passage of the raptured believers as they pass through their realm (Rev 12:3-4), which would trigger the battle with Michael and the holy angels (Rev 12:7-8). I believe this has strong merit, as the dragon is poised to devour the child as it is being born.
This is a monumental war, guys. It's not like war erupts in heaven every day, like it does on earth. This war is over something BIG.


Verse 8 - but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

There is no longer any place for Satan and his demons in heaven. Now listen, until this moment, there apparently WAS a place for them in heaven.
“Place” here doesn’t so much refer to space or room, but to purpose (Strong's 5117, topos). Biblehub describes this as "the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly" or "opportunity, power, occasion for acting".
What was satan's purpose in heaven? Satan, after his initial fall, retained access to God’s throne in order to accuse believers before Him (remember the book of Job?).
There’s no longer any purpose/place for him to do so all of a sudden. Why?
I would suggest there is momentarily no longer any believers left to accuse on earth - as they have all just been raptured. Think about it... Big event, big war, no purpose for satan in heaven anymore...


Verse 9 - And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

As we learned in verse 8, since there is no longer purpose for them in heaven, they are cast to the earth. There is still purpose for them there, which is a "woe" for the inhabitants of earth. Note that verse 12 is coincident with this event.
I see possible connection between the casting down of Satan and his horde in verse nine with Seal 6, where the “stars” fall from heaven to the earth (Rev 6:13 - "and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind"). In v4 we have already been introduced to the fallen angels as being “stars”, and we know Satan and the demons are cast down to the earth. Are the figs dropping as part of the "fig tree generation"? Is the strong wind the Holy Spirit ascending to heaven with us - the reverse of the Holy Spirit descending as a strong wind from heaven on Pentecost, detailed in the book of Acts? What do you think?


Verse 5 - She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

Rapture time!!!
Using an interlinear translation, we see the woman give birth to a male huion arsen (Strong’s 5207 and 730). This male child is to shepherd the nations with a rod of iron. The woman is identified as Israel (the corporate entity), who brings forth Jesus (the male child – huion arsen). A child, teknon (Strong’s 5043), is then caught up to God and to His throne.
When Jesus ascended to heaven, He was not seized suddenly with great force, nor was He in any danger from the dragon. In Acts 1:9, Jesus is lifted up (eperthe – Strong’s 1869) until He is hidden from view. We see this word in 19 other instances in scripture, and it means "exalts; lifts itself; lifting up voice or eyes; lifting up; turning gaze".
The child in Rev 12:5 is "caught up" - herpasthe (Strong’s 726), not eperthe . Where else do we see Strong’s Greek 726? 1 Thessalonians 4:17 – Those who are alive and remain will be caught up together…; 2 Cor. 12:2, 4 Paul is caught up to the third heaven; Acts 23:10 – take him away from them by force; Acts 8:39 – Philip is snatched by the Spirit of the Lord. There are 14 instances of this word in scripture and it means "plucked; seized; snatched suddenly and forcefully". There is quite a difference between being lifted or raised and being snatched or seized, isn’t there?
Let’s take a look at the child who is snatched. Is it the same child as the male child – huion arsen? Well, no, in fact, it isn’t. This child that is snatched is a teknon (Strong’s 5043). This is a commonly used word to mean children, child, descendant (gender neutral).
If Israel represents the corporate entity of Israel, the child (neutral gender) represents the corporate entity of the church – Jew and Gentile made one in Christ. It is the church that is snatched up, suddenly and forcefully. It is the church to whom Jesus has promised to share His iron-rod rule with (Revelation 2:26-27).
The woman, currently unbelieving, is left behind.
Are you stunned? From Isaiah 66 we know that “before she was in labor she gave birth”. This is entirely consistent with Jesus telling us that when we BEGIN to see all these things (the beginning of birth pains sign He describes on the Mount of Olives), that our redemption draws near. As Israel enters her birth pains, the time of Jacob’s Trouble, the body of Christ will be delivered. The nation that is born in one day is the body of Christ (1 Peter 2:9).
Listen folks - the rapture IS equivalent to salvation at this one moment in human existence - there is no partial birth, no partial rapture!
Still not convinced: Please see these amazing articles on Unsealed:
04-02-2019 05:38 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #373
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
Well, well, well. Here we are less than 3 years later and the elites are OPENLY talking about requiring us all to receive a "digital tattoo" for contact tracing, vaccinations, etc. They have destroyed the world economies so now we need universal basic income as well.

There were 2 signs in Rev 12, first the sign of the woman (9-23-2017), then the sign of the dragon (Rev 12:3-4). I don't think that we have see the actual celestial sign of the dragon yet, but there is no denying the antichrist system is upon us thanks to the Covid -19 pandemic.






The first 20 minutes is a rapid review of Bible prophecy and why we believe in the Bible. From about the 20 minute mark on is all about the current pandemic and how open and obvious things have now become for the coming antichrist system and mark.

There is a ton of information here that most people are not yet aware of. No matter what your denomination or your rapture view is, you need to put that aside and hear what the globalists and elites of the world are openly doing.

They are just straight up telling us we will likely HAVE to be digitally tattooed for contract tracing, vaccinations and a host of other things if we ever want to safe and return to "normal" again. And a majority of the public has been properly conditioned to the point that they will now agree and want these things.

Expect Hollywood, politicians on both sides, the media, and all social influencers to begin to pied piper the culture to get in line and shame & mock those who dare push back. And they are going to tell us how righteous it is to get onboard and protect our loved ones and the innocent everywhere and how selfish it would be not to. They are going to tell us we need to think about the elderly and our children and how we are all in this together and how we are stronger together.

Its going to start out as peer and social pressure, and will eventually end with forced compliance. And it will happen in the middle of a great global crisis even worse than the current one.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 06:18 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
05-20-2020 10:14 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Posts: 14,886
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Post: #374
RE: Awesome sign in the heavens right under mankinds nose and no one is looking
"The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

2 Thess 2:9-12
05-21-2020 06:09 AM
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