A consumption tax would cover Everyone from Rich to poor, Illegal and Legal citizens. A much fairer way to go in the long run. Do away with personal property tax, income Tax that Some States have that Others don't have would also be a good thing.

(02-09-2015 11:28 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  A consumption tax would cover Everyone from Rich to poor, Illegal and Legal citizens. A much fairer way to go in the long run. Do away with personal property tax, income Tax that Some States have that Others don't have would also be a good thing.

It would also gather in revenue from black and grey market enterprises and also visitors to the US. If you buy new goods ..you pay. If HR25 was the method chosen it would also totally untax the poor with a prebate in monthly payments. It would put money in the hands of the poor that they need.

(02-09-2015 05:15 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-08-2015 08:42 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  A consumption tax does not work!! At all!!

Then why are we the only developed country in the world that does not have a national consumption tax?

I read somewhere, sometime ago, that Britain was attempting to do away with their consumption tax. They said it didn't do what it was supposed to do.....prevent mass consumption. Yet Fo, CardFan, yourself (?) are all advocating for it. If Britain, a big government paradise if I ever saw one, doesn't/didn't want it, why do you all want it.


Note: I'm guessing that the attempt to repeal said tax failed. I don't know, because I never saw a follow up article.

(02-09-2015 10:57 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 05:15 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-08-2015 08:42 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  A consumption tax does not work!! At all!!

Then why are we the only developed country in the world that does not have a national consumption tax?

I read somewhere, sometime ago, that Britain was attempting to do away with their consumption tax. They said it didn't do what it was supposed to do.....prevent mass consumption. Yet Fo, CardFan, yourself (?) are all advocating for it. If Britain, a big government paradise if I ever saw one, doesn't/didn't want it, why do you all want it.


Note: I'm guessing that the attempt to repeal said tax failed. I don't know, because I never saw a follow up article.

I'm not a fan of the VAT that England and others use. It is somewhat complicated and is regressive. IMO HR25 is a more viable option for us. It avoids some of the problems that those systems have incurred...specifically in regard to untaxing the poor. It also does not tax used goods. HR25 was drafted by a team of economists that looked closely at other consumption paradigms and tried to avoid some of their problems. Still...it is not perfect. It is though very simple and should bring in the same revenue as our current system. IMO...it would bring in more due to capturing revenue that is now being hidden from tax and is being lost through current "legal" means. Unless you decide to live off the grid and produce your own food...you are going to pay. I believe it would also spur economic growth due to the removal of business taxes.

Count me though as one that thinks this will never happen. I don't believe those in power will allow it. It makes them give up a major part of their power....withholding.

(02-09-2015 09:35 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 06:40 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 05:15 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-08-2015 08:42 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  A consumption tax does not work!! At all!!

Then why are we the only developed country in the world that does not have a national consumption tax?

Because those in power don't want to give up the ability to directly reach into our pockets every paycheck and steal from us. It would reduce their ability to be able to borrow against our future labor. The reason we still have withholding(which BTW was supposed to be a war time temporary measure) has nothing to do with it's effectiveness as a means of revenue generation.

The biggest reason those in Washington don't want a consumption tax is that it would remove one of their biggest sources of power - the ability to "quietly" play with the tax code and give tax breaks to those people/industries that funnel money their way.
Choosing the winners and losers in the tax code is possibly the biggest source of power (funding) that those sitting on the throne in Washington currently have.
The whole thing is convoluted purposely to be able to hide all sorts of crap for the wealthy a powerful without Joe Public knowing what is going on.................

I think Creb has nailed the biggest reason.

The main reason I got behind the consumption tax its impact on balance of trade. Think about the impact of adding 15% to the price of every import and reducing the price of every export by 15%. Maybe it doesn't sound like much, but when you run the numbers in actual fact situations (as I have) it has a huge effect on the economic viability of locating your factory here versus there. We are the only developed country without a consumption tax. We have the largest trade deficit in the world. The two are not unrelated. And the trade deficit with China is only part of the problem. We also run a trade deficit with many countries in Europe, and they are paying wages close to ours and higher overall taxes, it's just that their taxes are structured to favor rather than hinder domestic industry.

(02-10-2015 08:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 09:35 AM)Crebman Wrote:  The biggest reason those in Washington don't want a consumption tax is that it would remove one of their biggest sources of power - the ability to "quietly" play with the tax code and give tax breaks to those people/industries that funnel money their way.
Choosing the winners and losers in the tax code is possibly the biggest source of power (funding) that those sitting on the throne in Washington currently have.
The whole thing is convoluted purposely to be able to hide all sorts of crap for the wealthy a powerful without Joe Public knowing what is going on.................

I think Creb has nailed the biggest reason.

The main reason I got behind the consumption tax its impact on balance of trade. Think about the impact of adding 15% to the price of every import and reducing the price of every export by 15%. Maybe it doesn't sound like much, but when you run the numbers in actual fact situations (as I have) it has a huge effect on the economic viability of locating your factory here versus there. We are the only developed country without a consumption tax. We have the largest trade deficit in the world. The two are not unrelated. And the trade deficit with China is only part of the problem. We also run a trade deficit with many countries in Europe, and they are paying wages close to ours and higher overall taxes, it's just that their taxes are structured to favor rather than hinder domestic industry.

Bingo.

Generic comment, because some posters won't stop bumping that f***ing gay marriage thread!!

Oh, and a consumption tax should never ever be supported. It is a TAX after all!!