With 13 regular season games to go, Marcus Thorton is sitting on 1835 points, good for 4th all time and 217 points behind Chet Giermak. As his current pace of 19.8 PPG, Marcus would break the record on the road in the third to last game. At a 19 PPG average, he would do it in the next to last home game (as we all hope).

Here are a couple of questions to ponder. Marcus has 274 three point shots in his career. Giermak and Cohen had none, and I believe Cieplicki might have had a few in his senior year, but someone else can correct that for me. How will Tribe basketball fans and historians view Marcus' place in the pantheon? Anybody out there want to stand up for Giermak's record being the "real" record? Or does Marcus get the title of greatest ever at William and Mary?

Discuss.

(01-16-2015 11:07 AM)3xTribe Wrote:  With 13 regular season games to go, Marcus Thorton is sitting on 1835 points, good for 4th all time and 217 points behind Chet Giermak. As his current pace of 19.8 PPG, Marcus would break the record on the road in the third to last game. At a 19 PPG average, he would do it in the next to last home game (as we all hope).

Here are a couple of questions to ponder. Marcus has 274 three point shots in his career. Giermak and Cohen had none, and I believe Cieplicki might have had a few in his senior year, but someone else can correct that for me. How will Tribe basketball fans and historians view Marcus' place in the pantheon? Anybody out there want to stand up for Giermak's record being the "real" record? Or does Marcus get the title of greatest ever at William and Mary?

Discuss.

I think Marcus is the best I have seen. However, I think when you have a great player at your school, it is an excellent time to learn more about the former great players. I really have enjoyed hearing more about Cohen. He appeared to be very dominant from the comments. What can everyone tell me about Cieplicki and Giermak?

Cieplicki was a 6'4" guard from Vermont who didn't have a lot of offers, but was a scoring machine in high school.

He is left handed and was a good enough ball handler to play both point and off guard. He was thin, but not weak or soft. His best aspect was his shot from the perimeter and he shot a lot from what is now beyond the three point line. He could also move to the basket and had a good ability to drive, pull up and shoot in and around the lane. He was a very strong defender and had size to guard larger guards. His free throw percentage was around 80%. He was clutch.

He would have scored a lot more points with the three pointer. I'd say at least 50% of his shots would have been beyond the arc.

As a person he was fairly quiet and religious. He was a really good guy to be around and was involved in a lot of other areas in the college including the campus ministry and catholic student group. I was there with him for two years.

(01-16-2015 11:38 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  

(01-16-2015 11:07 AM)3xTribe Wrote:  With 13 regular season games to go, Marcus Thorton is sitting on 1835 points, good for 4th all time and 217 points behind Chet Giermak. As his current pace of 19.8 PPG, Marcus would break the record on the road in the third to last game. At a 19 PPG average, he would do it in the next to last home game (as we all hope).

Here are a couple of questions to ponder. Marcus has 274 three point shots in his career. Giermak and Cohen had none, and I believe Cieplicki might have had a few in his senior year, but someone else can correct that for me. How will Tribe basketball fans and historians view Marcus' place in the pantheon? Anybody out there want to stand up for Giermak's record being the "real" record? Or does Marcus get the title of greatest ever at William and Mary?




Discuss.

I think Marcus is the best I have seen. However, I think when you have a great player at your school, it is an excellent time to learn more about the former great players. I really have enjoyed hearing more about Cohen. He appeared to be very dominant from the comments. What can everyone tell me about Cieplicki and Giermak?

I think the second best player in Tribe history after Cohen was John Lowenhaupt. Go look up his stats. Another guy with a good perimeter game who would have had a lot of three pointers. Also very much like Tarpey in that he lead the team in rebounding at 6'5" most games. He was scrappy, a fearless defensive player and played against some amazing players. He also played in the era without a shot clock so a lot of games were low scoring when the opposition wanted to stall.

(01-16-2015 11:38 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  

(01-16-2015 11:07 AM)3xTribe Wrote:  With 13 regular season games to go, Marcus Thorton is sitting on 1835 points, good for 4th all time and 217 points behind Chet Giermak. As his current pace of 19.8 PPG, Marcus would break the record on the road in the third to last game. At a 19 PPG average, he would do it in the next to last home game (as we all hope).

Here are a couple of questions to ponder. Marcus has 274 three point shots in his career. Giermak and Cohen had none, and I believe Cieplicki might have had a few in his senior year, but someone else can correct that for me. How will Tribe basketball fans and historians view Marcus' place in the pantheon? Anybody out there want to stand up for Giermak's record being the "real" record? Or does Marcus get the title of greatest ever at William and Mary?

Discuss.

I think Marcus is the best I have seen. However, I think when you have a great player at your school, it is an excellent time to learn more about the former great players. I really have enjoyed hearing more about Cohen. He appeared to be very dominant from the comments. What can everyone tell me about Cieplicki and Giermak?

NCAA Tournament. If we make it this year, I don't care who is in the past. Thornton wins.

(01-16-2015 12:50 PM)hktribefan Wrote:  NCAA Tournament. If we make it this year, I don't care who is in the past. Thornton wins.

No question.

Also, I don't much care for comparing current players to players from decades ago because the game has changed, today's athletes are far superior, shot clock, etc. I don't know when two of the other guys played but we all know there was a time when minorities were "discouraged" from playing. Chet was a 6'6 center in the 1940's...no way to compare him to Marcus as far as ability to score or otherwise. Population and game have changed so much.

Think we may see Marcus take his performance/effort to an even higher level as the remainder of this season unwinds, if we can believe there's a higher level. Think the best is still yet to come from him.

(01-16-2015 01:12 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(01-16-2015 12:50 PM)hktribefan Wrote:  NCAA Tournament. If we make it this year, I don't care who is in the past. Thornton wins.

No question.

Also, I don't much care for comparing current players to players from decades ago because the game has changed, today's athletes are far superior, shot clock, etc. I don't know when two of the other guys played but we all know there was a time when minorities were "discouraged" from playing. Chet was a 6'6 center in the 1940's...no way to compare him to Marcus as far as ability to score or otherwise. Population and game have changed so much.

Very fair point. Of all the players of the "modern era", there is no comparison.

I really hope Marcus either breaks the record at a home game or in the first round of March Madness, as he leads the Tribe in an upset win over some blue blood.

Quote:Very fair point. Of all the players of the "modern era", there is no comparison.

Perhaps you should more clearly define "modern era", otherwise, I will have to claim a "Bogus Statement Alert" on you.

For all of my years, there have been two players in whose hands I wanted the ball at the end of the game; Keith Cieplicki and Marcus Thornton. Both share toughness and a wonderful desire to compete and win. Each would have been a star in the other's generation as long as they got comfortable with the length of their shorts.

(01-16-2015 04:07 PM)billymac Wrote:  

Quote:Very fair point. Of all the players of the "modern era", there is no comparison.

Perhaps you should more clearly define "modern era", otherwise, I will have to claim a "Bogus Statement Alert" on you.

May I?

Thanks. "Modern Era" is hereby defined as any W&M game played AFTER Lead Bolt played his last game dressed in green & gold, orange, or whatever the Indians wore "back then." So, turns out 'ol Chet qualifies as a modern era player. I stand corrected.

(01-16-2015 04:19 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(01-16-2015 04:07 PM)billymac Wrote:  

Quote:Very fair point. Of all the players of the "modern era", there is no comparison.

Perhaps you should more clearly define "modern era", otherwise, I will have to claim a "Bogus Statement Alert" on you.

May I?

Thanks. "Modern Era" is hereby defined as any W&M game played AFTER Lead Bolt played his last game dressed in green & gold, orange, or whatever the Indians wore "back then." So, turns out 'ol Chet qualifies as a modern era player. I stand corrected.

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Most basketball scholars define "Modern Era" is that period in time after which the peach basket was retired and rplaced by the steel basketball "Hoop".

For debate reasons only, I was trying to figure out what 3X considered the Modern Era. Did he mean 1980-Present, or 2000-present or, what was his reference, but obviously, it has been decided that it includes anything after WWII, so apparently there is no need for debate.

(01-16-2015 04:16 PM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  For all of my years, there have been two players in whose hands I wanted the ball at the end of the game; Keith Cieplicki and Marcus Thornton. Both share toughness and a wonderful desire to compete and win. Each would have been a star in the other's generation as long as they got comfortable with the length of their shorts.

I would have to include Lowenhaupt, his end to end drive to beat VMI in The Hall when they were ranked was amazing. Plus, he was the force beating unc

(01-17-2015 08:33 PM)Tribe Fan Wrote:  

(01-16-2015 04:16 PM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  For all of my years, there have been two players in whose hands I wanted the ball at the end of the game; Keith Cieplicki and Marcus Thornton. Both share toughness and a wonderful desire to compete and win. Each would have been a star in the other's generation as long as they got comfortable with the length of their shorts.

I would have to include Lowenhaupt, his end to end drive to beat VMI in The Hall when they were ranked was amazing. Plus, he was the force beating unc

I agree.

A careless phrase, and all manner of controversy ensues. Since I made reference in my original post to three pointers and the degree to which that would impact fan's views of the points record, I really had in mind the 3 point era.

To graduate from W&M in the late 1970s you had to sign an oath to eternally defend "the Hop" against all pretenders to the throne of best W&M basketball player ever. I signed that oath gladly and can not, will not, repent of it.

He was an excellent player in all facets of the game with uncanny consistency and toughness.

The three standouts who come to mind for me are Lowenhaupt, Ceiplicki and Thornton. Weidner was the best all-round center I can recall. That's one forward short of an all-star team.

I can work with that. The three point era did change the game, as did the shot clock (no more stall ball).

I will include Keith Ceiplicki, Adam Hess, John Lowenhaupt, Thomas Roberts and Randy Bracy in my Top 5, and Honorable Mention to Schneider, McDowell, Kurt Small and Brandon Britt.

That said, in 30+ years of working for W&M, I have never seen a better, more talented, harder worker than Marcus Thornton. He's my #1...hands down.

Billymac...

I'd have to put Laimus Kisielius in that honorable mention grouping. A really talented, versatile player. And who can ever forget his great CAA Tourney win performances against ODU and VCU?