Is PSU unhappy in the Big?

(01-09-2015 11:00 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I think the reality of 16 teams in ACC football is the ACC will have to go to 17 teams with Notre Dame as a football independent. So the question is which two teams would be 15 and 16? My guess that it would two of these:

Cincinnati
Central Florida
Connecticut
Navy (football only)/ Georgetown all sports but football.
West Virginia

Navy simply CANNOT compete in the ACC. They would get slaughtered.

And UCF? Why? They're no different than USF. There's no need for another Florida school, just like there's no need for four schools in North Carolina.

(01-09-2015 11:06 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  ^ Lumber -- stop ruining my semi-well thought out arguments.

Adding Ohio State is the equivalent to adding two UNC-Ch egos.

It's all the baggage of Texas and size wise they are destabilizing.

To me what makes the ACC work is that we have some degree of fiscal parity in the league. Schools like Texas, Ohio State, etc (110K seat football stadiums and $150 million annual budgets) kill that near parity.

Creating a situation where only two to four schools can financially compete in a conference is bad in my opinion.

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Is PSU unhappy in the Big?

Yes

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:00 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I think the reality of 16 teams in ACC football is the ACC will have to go to 17 teams with Notre Dame as a football independent. So the question is which two teams would be 15 and 16? My guess that it would two of these:

Cincinnati
Central Florida
Connecticut
Navy (football only)/ Georgetown all sports but football.
West Virginia

Navy simply CANNOT compete in the ACC. They would get slaughtered.

And UCF? Why? They're no different than USF. There's no need for another Florida school, just like there's no need for four schools in North Carolina.

As long as Navy was not in a division with you and Clemson, they would get along fine. 7-5 would become a great season for them. They are not that weak in football, but they can't play you and Clemson back to back and then play BC, Louisville, State, that is true.

(01-09-2015 11:07 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  [quote='Wilkie01' pid='11639853' dateline='1420819201']
I think the reality of 16 teams in ACC football is the ACC will have to go to 17 teams with Notre Dame as a football independent. So the question is which two teams would be 15 and 16? My guess that it would two of these:

Cincinnati
Central Florida
Connecticut
Navy (football only)/ Georgetown all sports but football.
West Virginia

Cincy - tough call on paying it's way.

Paying your way means generating enough revenue to cover an individual $30 million annual payout and more. CF and UConn - I don't see it nor do I see a scenario where they overcome the blackball votes.

totally agree. just say no to any and all directional schools (UCF, USF, ECU, etc.). it screams mid-major and we already have those markets in spades.

cincy might make sense in the context of the coming acc network. however, with Louisville and ND, it is conceivable that the acc network would get carriage in Cincinnati and throughout Ohio, which would make Cincinnati an unnecessary addition. they certainly wouldn't goose the ratings. WVU, on the other hand, would get ratings, but brings little to no cable subscribers (do they even have cable in WV?). UConn is just so abysmal in football that I cannot ever see them in the ACC. I know they won the title in basketball, but their program may very well wither over time in the AAC, which would eliminate their only selling point. not sure we need them for cable subscribers anyway since Syracuse gives us NY.
Why go to 16 with the schools you mention above? Which school pays it's way? Which school adds to the pie?

WVa would probably pay it's way. Navy would pay it's way only if the ACC gains control of the annual ND/Navy game, but why would Georgetown give up a safe place in the new Big East to become a hybrid? What do they gain?

(01-09-2015 11:12 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Is PSU unhappy in the Big?

Yes

Then. PSU should be our 16th target and maybe we could land Notre Dame as the 15th football team. If ND will not, then add West Virginia or Cincinnati.

(01-09-2015 11:12 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Is PSU unhappy in the Big?

Yes

There are several other schools that are not "happy" in the B10 but feel trapped by geography, and history, and money. MD had not been "happy" in the ACC for about 20 years. A large segment at NC State are not "happy" in the ACC, and you have some at Clemson, and a vocal group at FSU who are not "happy".

Not "happy" doesn't mean you can change anything though.

(01-09-2015 11:16 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:12 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Is PSU unhappy in the Big?

Yes

There are several other schools that are not "happy" in the B10 but feel trapped by geography, and history, and money. MD had not been "happy" in the ACC for about 20 years. A large segment at NC State are not "happy" in the ACC, and you have some at Clemson, and a vocal group at FSU who are not "happy".

Not "happy" doesn't mean you can change anything though.

which B1G schools are unhappy? I just can't for the life of me imagine how Rutgers would ease PSU's geography heartburn. Md I can see helping but I imagine they had a tepid response do Delaney "helping" them by adding Rutgers.

and isn't the B1G GOR up for renewal soon? could be a window of opportunity to poach one if the acc network is immanent and expected to be uber-lucrative.

(01-09-2015 11:16 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:12 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Is PSU unhappy in the Big?

Yes

Then. PSU should be our 16th target and maybe we could land Notre Dame as the 15th football team. If ND will not, then add West Virginia or Cincinnati.

MD screwed this for us - that's the reason for all the venom. They outed the discussion with PSU and the little brothers of the B10 causing the B10 to take direct steps to assuage some of PSU's issues. MD's system president really did a number on the ACC along with the MD chancellor.

MD did not want most of the expansions that have occurred. They did not want ND in the ACC. They did not want to be in an ACC where they were an afterthought and they would have become just that with PSU, ND, VT, Pitt, and UVa interest in the greater DC market. They always wanted to be "special". They are special again the B10 southeasternmost and warmest team

(01-09-2015 11:19 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:16 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:12 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Is PSU unhappy in the Big?

Yes

There are several other schools that are not "happy" in the B10 but feel trapped by geography, and history, and money. MD had not been "happy" in the ACC for about 20 years. A large segment at NC State are not "happy" in the ACC, and you have some at Clemson, and a vocal group at FSU who are not "happy".

Not "happy" doesn't mean you can change anything though.

which B1G schools are unhappy? I just can't for the life of me imagine how Rutgers would ease PSU's geography heartburn. Md I can see helping but I imagine they had a tepid response do Delaney "helping" them by adding Rutgers.

and isn't the B1G GOR up for renewal soon? could be a window of opportunity to poach one if the acc network is immanent and expected to be uber-lucrative.

Purdue, Northwestern, and Indiana, can not fully compete in B10 football against the schools with stadiums twice to 2.5 times the size of their stadiums. This does not make them "happy". PSU is not a mid-west school and they don't like Michigan and Wisky looking down their nose at them. They don't like the control Ohio State exerts over the league. PSU in the B10 is a little like FSU in the ACC - a less than perfect fit.

Lots of folks are not happy with the marriages but stay married.

Let's face it, Purdue, NW, and Indiana could possibly compete in the top half of the ACC in football on a regular basis when they currently have no chance against Nebraska, Wisky, MSU, Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State.

(01-09-2015 11:13 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:00 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I think the reality of 16 teams in ACC football is the ACC will have to go to 17 teams with Notre Dame as a football independent. So the question is which two teams would be 15 and 16? My guess that it would two of these:

Cincinnati
Central Florida
Connecticut
Navy (football only)/ Georgetown all sports but football.
West Virginia

Navy simply CANNOT compete in the ACC. They would get slaughtered.

And UCF? Why? They're no different than USF. There's no need for another Florida school, just like there's no need for four schools in North Carolina.

As long as Navy was not in a division with you and Clemson, they would get along fine. 7-5 would become a great season for them. They are not that weak in football, but they can't play you and Clemson back to back and then play BC, Louisville, State, that is true.

The problem is they wouldn't go 7-5 in the ACC. More like 2-10, if they were lucky. Just because you've seen the Mids compete once of twice a season against P5 teams doesn't mean Navy could handle the rigors of what playing 8 conferences games a year.

(01-09-2015 11:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:13 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:00 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I think the reality of 16 teams in ACC football is the ACC will have to go to 17 teams with Notre Dame as a football independent. So the question is which two teams would be 15 and 16? My guess that it would two of these:

Cincinnati
Central Florida
Connecticut
Navy (football only)/ Georgetown all sports but football.
West Virginia

Navy simply CANNOT compete in the ACC. They would get slaughtered.

And UCF? Why? They're no different than USF. There's no need for another Florida school, just like there's no need for four schools in North Carolina.

As long as Navy was not in a division with you and Clemson, they would get along fine. 7-5 would become a great season for them. They are not that weak in football, but they can't play you and Clemson back to back and then play BC, Louisville, State, that is true.

The problem is they wouldn't go 7-5 in the ACC. More like 2-10, if they were lucky. Just because you've seen the Mids compete once of twice a season against P5 teams doesn't mean Navy could handle the rigors of what playing 8 conferences games a year.

I think you underestimate Navy. 2-10 would be rare. They would be just as competitive as Wake Forest, or Syracuse.

(01-09-2015 11:41 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:13 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:08 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 11:00 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I think the reality of 16 teams in ACC football is the ACC will have to go to 17 teams with Notre Dame as a football independent. So the question is which two teams would be 15 and 16? My guess that it would two of these:

Cincinnati
Central Florida
Connecticut
Navy (football only)/ Georgetown all sports but football.
West Virginia

Navy simply CANNOT compete in the ACC. They would get slaughtered.

And UCF? Why? They're no different than USF. There's no need for another Florida school, just like there's no need for four schools in North Carolina.

As long as Navy was not in a division with you and Clemson, they would get along fine. 7-5 would become a great season for them. They are not that weak in football, but they can't play you and Clemson back to back and then play BC, Louisville, State, that is true.

The problem is they wouldn't go 7-5 in the ACC. More like 2-10, if they were lucky. Just because you've seen the Mids compete once of twice a season against P5 teams doesn't mean Navy could handle the rigors of what playing 8 conferences games a year.

I think you underestimate Navy. 2-10 would be rare. They would be just as competitive as Wake Forest, or Syracuse.

If Navy ever has any association with the ACC it will be for Lacrosse and not for football.

If Notre Dame stays a partial member of the ACC and the conference moves to 16 permanent members, the only two logical additions are West Virginia and South Carolina.

(01-09-2015 01:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  If Notre Dame stays a partial member of the ACC and the conference moves to 16 permanent members, the only two logical additions are West Virginia and South Carolina.

South Carolina isn't coming back, XLance.

(01-09-2015 01:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 01:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  If Notre Dame stays a partial member of the ACC and the conference moves to 16 permanent members, the only two logical additions are West Virginia and South Carolina.

South Carolina isn't coming back, XLance.

At the time South Carolina joined the ACC and up until the time they left, South Carolina had some value for the conference. They maintained the league's compact footprint. That is no longer a valuable asset, and they offer nothing the league does not already get from Clemson.

(01-09-2015 01:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  If Notre Dame stays a partial member of the ACC and the conference moves to 16 permanent members, the only two logical additions are West Virginia and South Carolina.

There isn't a bigger member of Team SEC than South Carolina. There wasn't a fan base that loved the SEC's run of consecutive Football National Championships more than South Carolina fans.

This may or may not be relevant to realignment, but South Carolina fans (not the university itself, I don't know about that) still have ill feelings towards the ACC and the North Carolina schools.

Penn State adds a flagship school.
Cincinnati puts us in Ohio.
West Virginia

(01-09-2015 02:30 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Penn State adds a flagship school.
Cincinnati puts us in Ohio.
West Virginia

I don't think West Virginia would get the necessary votes, unless the ACC was on the brink of total destruction.