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UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
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2013_Mystery_Owl Offline
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Post: #61
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 11:25 AM)WIowl Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 08:38 AM)bbaker Wrote:  When we get more fannys in the seats and more money allotted for athletics we can set our aims higher. For now getting to a bowl game is a pretty lofty goal for Rice.
UH does not draw as well as we do and probably puts as much into athletics as we do. I think they gave up on Levine too quickly.

1. Bailliff has not built up the fan base. It takes consistent winning, check the number of season ticket holders from 2007 to 2014, where's the increase? It is not going to improve significantly until Rice consistently wins significant meaningful games (P5, conference championships, bowls). It's going to take 2013-type seasons AND more; the city of Houson will support a winner. See TCU/Ft. Worth and Rice baseball.

2. Getting to a bowl is not a lofty goal; it's a minimum for any FBS program.

3. UH draws 28k per game; Rice drew 18.5k per game. We need to up our attendance and get non-alumns involved in the program. How does that happen? See #1 and Rice baseball.

1. It is not the head coach's job to sell season tickets. That is the marketing department's job, and they are not doing it very well. I spent 4 years at Rice enraged by having to stare a Case Keenum and "Tier 1 School" billboards put up by Cougar High on 59 before the Rice marketing department FINALLY decided the city of Houston was worth targeting. Problem was those billboards were for the Jones Business school and new Continuing Studies building. It took sarcastic twitter mockery from former players at the beginning of the 2014 season to get the marketing department to realize that their "#20for20" Campaign ads were riddled with typos (not to mention the general mediocrity of their execution). My point is if Rice, and the Parliament for that matter, want more butts in the seats and more tickets sold then the marketing department needs to do their part.

2. Agreed, the first goal of any FBS program is to get to a bowl. We are accomplishing that goal consistently. The next goal? Play for conference championships. We accomplished that last year and were in a play-in game to accomplish that this year. The NEXT goal? Be the consistent team to beat in your conference. The road to the conference championship went through Rice this year and I think it will again next year (unfortunately LA Tech won that race but graduates a TON of seniors and Marshall will fall hard without Cato & Co.). The NEXT goal? Be the #1 G5 team in America. I don't see that as unattainable in the fairly near future, especially if the recruiting continues to trend up as it has since Bailiff took over.

3. Hard to compare Cougar High attendance and Rice attendance when CH has an enrollment of 32,000 students (undergrad) and Rice has an enrollment of 3,900 students (undergrad). Cougar High has 224,000 living alumni, 63% (roughly 141,000) of which live in Houston and 75% (168,000) live in Texas. Rice has about 51,000 living alumni. Pretty solid difference. To assume our attendance should be the same as Cougar High's because we are both in Houston is ridiculous.

That being said, Rice needs more fans in the stadium on Saturdays. Winning will ensure more people want to watch Rice play and more seats will be filled. However, winning will not change that Rice is and always will be fighting an uphill battle against itself for being a small school with a small alumni base. Make Rice games an enjoyable atmosphere rather than trying to pitch "Historic Rice Stadium" because that's ALL it is, historic. Build the EZF and give people a new reason to come. Football facilities shouldn't have a nostalgia factor, they should generate excitement.

In the slightly tweaked words of the great Ray Kinsella: "If you build it, [they] will come."
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 06:08 PM by 2013_Mystery_Owl.)
12-08-2014 06:06 PM
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Post: #62
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 06:06 PM)2013_Mystery_Owl Wrote:  I spent 4 years at Rice enraged by having to stare a Case Keenum and "Tier 1 School" billboards put up by Cougar High on 59 before the Rice marketing department FINALLY decided the city of Houston was worth targeting. Problem was those billboards were for the Jones Business school and new Continuing Studies building.

I drove by those same %&%&^% boards to and from work every day and my teeth were ground down to the gums. Live close to Rice and always enjoyed seeing pocket schedules, team posters and the like from CH handed out in all the local businesses.

Marketing has been a joke for years. Mike Pede (a UH grad mind you) at least tried (but budgets were cut over time) until Toad and CDC fired him.The whole wonderful IMG outsourcing has been what you would have expected out of an outsourcing.
12-08-2014 06:27 PM
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MemOwl Offline
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Post: #63
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
Back to the thread title, Levine being fired might be stupid and short sighted, but it is yet another data point that shows that most schools have higher expectations for football than Rice does.

Levine was 20-17 in his 3 full seasons. Interestingly, Sumlin was 23-16, only slightly better, but his 3rd year was the Keenum injury and he went 12-1 in year 4 before bolting to TAMU (Levine coached the bowl game that year for his first win)

Levine joins Bo Pelini, Will Muschamp, and Brady Hoke as coaches who were fired despite winning records at their current stops .

Bailiff was 15-22 over his first three years and sits today at 47-53. The empirical record shows no other school in the country would employ a coach with that record
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 07:48 PM by MemOwl.)
12-08-2014 07:48 PM
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Ranger Offline
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Post: #64
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 02:20 PM)I45owl Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 11:26 AM)WIowl Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 10:15 AM)Burpelson Wrote:  There is just to much at steak with the new stadium and the future of college landscape to stay with him.

I hope the Rice AD has this level of urgency.

The last one did. I just wish he was compelled to do his job with more urgency.

(12-08-2014 07:48 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Back to the thread title, Levine being fired might be stupid and short sighted, but it is yet another data point that shows that most schools have higher expectations for football than Rice does.

Levine was 20-17 in his 3 full seasons. Interestingly, Sumlin was 23-16, only slightly better, but his 3rd year was the Keenum injury and he went 12-1 in year 4 before bolting to TAMU (Levine coached the bowl game that year for his first win)

Levine joins Bo Pelini, Will Muschamp, and Brady Hoke as coaches who were fired despite winning records at their current stops .

Bailiff was 15-22 over his first three years and sits today at 47-53. The empirical record shows no other school in the country would employ a coach with that record

If your numbers are correct, then he has only gone 32-31after his first three years. Everyone has this deal about " the hand he was dealt." Don't agree. Particularly after 8 years, I would hope for better performance. And Herr Doctor Greenberg has established his lack of success against better teams.

However, I have stated many times, far more depressing is the way we lose. Eight years into his tenure, we should not witness so many failures to prepare the team for the game.
12-08-2014 07:58 PM
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Post: #65
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
I don't buy the line that coaches would shy away from applying for the UH job because they fired a winning coach. I would be curious as to why Leach hasn't been able to work more magic at Wazzu and is apparently interested in the UH job.
12-08-2014 07:59 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 07:59 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  I don't buy the line that coaches would shy away from applying for the UH job because they fired a winning coach. I would be curious as to why Leach hasn't been able to work more magic at Wazzu and is apparently interested in the UH job.

Wazzu might be about as tough a job as anywhere in the country. The Palouse is one of those areas like West Texas that grows on you if you've been there a while, but does not appeal on first impression. Small town, small stadium, long way from anywhere, the closest bright lights are Spokane, which isn't exactly New York City. And you have to take what recruits you can get to come there and line up and beat the likes of Stanford, Oregon, USC, and UCLA.
12-08-2014 08:28 PM
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Burpelson Offline
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Post: #67
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
wazzou is a very difficult place to recruit, pullman is not a place a kid wants to go. I think Leach would be a huge hire and would have great success at UH!
12-08-2014 08:40 PM
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Post: #68
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 05:31 PM)Klobasnek Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 05:16 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 02:07 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I STILL think we need to contract with ESPN or Comcast or Dish and get them to stream some content of other games IN the stadium during the game.

I'd ask most of you what you do on Sundays or on days when you can't get Rice on TV. You multi-task, right? You check in on teams that are your 'other' favorites... you flip between games... you watch highlights while taking care of your life.

What if an A&M fan that can't travel to CS... lives in west u (or works in the med center) and respects Rice, but wouldn't miss the A&M Kick-off or the highlights of Auburn-Alabama could have all of the fun of live college football without missing those games? If they buy tickets, tail gaters could stream before and after the game outside the stadium. Kiosks or even bar stools with charging stations on the concourse
Very good idea. Expand and renovate The Roost, stream in the other games, then market the hell out of it.

Maybe I'm going crazy, but I seem to remember the jumbotron cutting to live video from the A&M and Baylor games at the UTEP game. A couple of reasons why it wasn't effective:

1. No audio.
2. Jumbotron resolution means that you can't read the score and down at the bottom of the screen, so you don't really have any idea what's going on.
3. First priority is paying the bills, so you can only do this after you're done with ads. That's not a lot of time. Ask the MOB.

I think a more workable idea would be curated highlights with commentary and full audio at the end of halftime while the teams are warming back up.
I'm thinking more along the lines of showing all the other games on several different televisions in The Roost. It wouldn't be possible on the jumbotron. Heck, erect glass walls around The Roost (under the upper deck) and install some air conditioning. Make it a real sports bar
12-08-2014 08:59 PM
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MemOwl Offline
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Post: #69
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 08:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 07:59 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  I don't buy the line that coaches would shy away from applying for the UH job because they fired a winning coach. I would be curious as to why Leach hasn't been able to work more magic at Wazzu and is apparently interested in the UH job.

Wazzu might be about as tough a job as anywhere in the country. The Palouse is one of those areas like West Texas that grows on you if you've been there a while, but does not appeal on first impression. Small town, small stadium, long way from anywhere, the closest bright lights are Spokane, which isn't exactly New York City. And you have to take what recruits you can get to come there and line up and beat the likes of Stanford, Oregon, USC, and UCLA.

The won 10 games four times in 7 years under Mike Price (including the next guy's first year)

It hasn't gotten smaller or more remote since then, and the Huskies have been down more than up since Price left.

I wonder if Oregon has just sucked all the life out of the three other PNW schools in the Pac 12. Riley kept his head above water with competence, and Peterson will probably get it done in Seattle, but Leach going there with no network was tough. he has some good wins, but this year was a step back from last year.
12-08-2014 09:07 PM
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75src Offline
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Post: #70
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
Calling it Cougar High is a good reason why UH needs to engage in marketing. The present UH is better academically (but regressed athletically-no more Phi Slamma Jamma or SWC championships) than it was in the last generation or two. UH can now hold its own with all the non-American Association of University members in Texas, but they are still way behind the three AAU members in Texas which are UT, Rice and A&M.

The real problem is the lack of good marketing by Rice. I do not even see the billboard by the track stadium on Main Street anymore. That billboard would have the football schedule in the fall. IMG just gives us generic athletic marketing which is not adapted to show how Rice is different than other schools.

Pede is now using his talents as director of the UH alumni association and doing a decent job at it.


(12-08-2014 06:27 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 06:06 PM)2013_Mystery_Owl Wrote:  I spent 4 years at Rice enraged by having to stare a Case Keenum and "Tier 1 School" billboards put up by Cougar High on 59 before the Rice marketing department FINALLY decided the city of Houston was worth targeting. Problem was those billboards were for the Jones Business school and new Continuing Studies building.

I drove by those same %&%&^% boards to and from work every day and my teeth were ground down to the gums. Live close to Rice and always enjoyed seeing pocket schedules, team posters and the like from CH handed out in all the local businesses.

Marketing has been a joke for years. Mike Pede (a UH grad mind you) at least tried (but budgets were cut over time) until Toad and CDC fired him.The whole wonderful IMG outsourcing has been what you would have expected out of an outsourcing.
12-08-2014 09:15 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 09:07 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  The won 10 games four times in 7 years under Mike Price (including the next guy's first year)
It hasn't gotten smaller or more remote since then, and the Huskies have been down more than up since Price left.
I wonder if Oregon has just sucked all the life out of the three other PNW schools in the Pac 12. Riley kept his head above water with competence, and Peterson will probably get it done in Seattle, but Leach going there with no network was tough. he has some good wins, but this year was a step back from last year.

I think Oregon is overpowering everyone else in the region. That Mike Price and Riles could get as much done as they did testifies that they are two hellaciously good football coaches. I found it interesting talking to Bama players from the aborted Price era. They were pretty unanimous in saying that they thought he was the best coach any of them had ever been around. There was a huge effort by players to get Bama to keep him even after the indiscretions, but it was never going to happen.
12-08-2014 09:16 PM
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Post: #72
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
That's not the impression I got from Price when I met him.

(12-08-2014 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 09:07 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  The won 10 games four times in 7 years under Mike Price (including the next guy's first year)
It hasn't gotten smaller or more remote since then, and the Huskies have been down more than up since Price left.
I wonder if Oregon has just sucked all the life out of the three other PNW schools in the Pac 12. Riley kept his head above water with competence, and Peterson will probably get it done in Seattle, but Leach going there with no network was tough. he has some good wins, but this year was a step back from last year.

I think Oregon is overpowering everyone else in the region. That Mike Price and Riles could get as much done as they did testifies that they are two hellaciously good football coaches. I found it interesting talking to Bama players from the aborted Price era. They were pretty unanimous in saying that they thought he was the best coach any of them had ever been around. There was a huge effort by players to get Bama to keep him even after the indiscretions, but it was never going to happen.
12-08-2014 09:42 PM
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Post: #73
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 07:48 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Bailiff was 15-22 over his first three years and sits today at 47-53. The empirical record shows no other school in the country would employ a coach with that record

Wrong.

David Cutcliffe at Duke has a lower winning percentage at his current school than Bailiff. Randy Edsall and Dan McCarney both have lower career winning percentages than Bailiff (for example).
12-08-2014 09:59 PM
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Post: #74
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 09:59 PM)Pellet Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 07:48 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Bailiff was 15-22 over his first three years and sits today at 47-53. The empirical record shows no other school in the country would employ a coach with that record

Wrong.

David Cutcliffe at Duke has a lower winning percentage at his current school than Bailiff. Randy Edsall and Dan McCarney both have lower career winning percentages than Bailiff (for example).

Good catch on Cutcliffe.

what is right is that no one of Bailiff's tenure or longer has a losing record. Cutcliffe at 40-47 has one year shorter tenure but will likely still have a losing record a year from now, unless he goes 10-3 or better next year.


I don't think Edsall and McCarney refute my post. they have gotten longer leashes than Levine has. each is four years into his gig and has a losing record. It is highly unlikely that either will still be employed in four years if his career record at Maryland or UNT is below .500
12-08-2014 10:28 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #75
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 07:48 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Back to the thread title, Levine being fired might be stupid and short sighted, but it is yet another data point that shows that most schools have higher expectations for football than Rice does.

Levine was 20-17 in his 3 full seasons. Interestingly, Sumlin was 23-16, only slightly better, but his 3rd year was the Keenum injury and he went 12-1 in year 4 before bolting to TAMU (Levine coached the bowl game that year for his first win)

Levine joins Bo Pelini, Will Muschamp, and Brady Hoke as coaches who were fired despite winning records at their current stops .

Bailiff was 15-22 over his first three years and sits today at 47-53. The empirical record shows no other school in the country would employ a coach with that record

Two things.

Bailiff is still coaching at Rice because he has gone 23-10 since mid-season 2012. The last 3 years have produced more wins in a 3-year span than any comparable period in Rice history. Our average rating (whichever one GoodOwl was using), i.e. the 3-year moving average, is the highest its been in 15 years. Had he continued on the track he was on at the midpoint of 2012, none of us would be having this discussion. But that did not happen.

Second, a 47-53 record also is the best winning percentage produced by a Rice football coach (who stayed more than 1-year) since Jess Neely. (I think Hatfield was close through 2001)

Bottom line, you can focus on the overall record, but the fact of the matter is that the "what have you done for us lately" that works against some people in some jobs, is working FOR our Coach right now.

As it should.
12-08-2014 11:24 PM
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Post: #76
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
And Rick, don't forget that we have also had great graduation rates under Bailiff and have had a decent number of players go to the NFL (if I am not mistaken Rice had more players in the NFL this season than in MLB last season. And only 2 10 win seasons in 8 years is clearly unacceptable at Rice -- especially since many of our commentators don't like who we beat. That conference championship -- anyone can have one of those. And I guess I am delusional -- I thought beating Air Force in a bowl was a big deal and I sure as heck considered the Marshall win last season as a signature win -- not only did we beat a good team, but we won a conference championship.
12-08-2014 11:51 PM
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Post: #77
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 11:24 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 07:48 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Back to the thread title, Levine being fired might be stupid and short sighted, but it is yet another data point that shows that most schools have higher expectations for football than Rice does.

Levine was 20-17 in his 3 full seasons. Interestingly, Sumlin was 23-16, only slightly better, but his 3rd year was the Keenum injury and he went 12-1 in year 4 before bolting to TAMU (Levine coached the bowl game that year for his first win)

Levine joins Bo Pelini, Will Muschamp, and Brady Hoke as coaches who were fired despite winning records at their current stops .

Bailiff was 15-22 over his first three years and sits today at 47-53. The empirical record shows no other school in the country would employ a coach with that record

Two things.

Bailiff is still coaching at Rice because he has gone 23-10 since mid-season 2012. The last 3 years have produced more wins in a 3-year span than any comparable period in Rice history. Our average rating (whichever one GoodOwl was using), i.e. the 3-year moving average, is the highest its been in 15 years. Had he continued on the track he was on at the midpoint of 2012, none of us would be having this discussion. But that did not happen.

Second, a 47-53 record also is the best winning percentage produced by a Rice football coach (who stayed more than 1-year) since Jess Neely. (I think Hatfield was close through 2001)

Bottom line, you can focus on the overall record, but the fact of the matter is that the "what have you done for us lately" that works against some people in some jobs, is working FOR our Coach right now.

As it should.

BOOM!
12-08-2014 11:55 PM
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Post: #78
RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
(12-08-2014 11:51 PM)austinowl73 Wrote:  And Rick, don't forget that we have also had great graduation rates under Bailiff and have had a decent number of players go to the NFL (if I am not mistaken Rice had more players in the NFL this season than in MLB last season. And only 2 10 win seasons in 8 years is clearly unacceptable at Rice -- especially since many of our commentators don't like who we beat. That conference championship -- anyone can have one of those. And I guess I am delusional -- I thought beating Air Force in a bowl was a big deal and I sure as heck considered the Marshall win last season as a signature win -- not only did we beat a good team, but we won a conference championship.

Signature wins, 10 win seasons, bowl victories, pro players.

We should be grateful there's apparently such little demand in college football for good head coaches.
12-09-2014 12:01 AM
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RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
Boom Boom
12-09-2014 12:03 AM
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RE: UH Tony Levine out per ESPN
When does baseball season get here?

I'm ready to gripe and complain about something else, like the fact that we don't bunt enough or we aren't stealing enough bases.
12-09-2014 01:06 AM
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