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A drop to FCS
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iam4uab Offline
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Post: #1
A drop to FCS
You know, I've been thinking a lot about this. I admit, I don't fully understand how the FCS rules and regulations differ from FBS, but...

• Since they are already honoring scholarships and contracts, couldn't they have done the same in FCS? Sure some guys might have left, including the coaches, but we would have been set up to be a dominant force in the FCS for the next couple of years.

• That success would have probably led to decent FCS recruiting. I'm not naive enough to think that we would have continued to recruit FBS talent to an FCS school, but if scholarships were honored and some of our talented underclassmen had stuck around to play, we probably would have been able to recruit to the upper echelon of the FCS. I mean, if Jacksonville St. can get kids to come there and compete nationally, should be a piece of cake for Birmingham, right?

• The time in FCS, be it a few years or a decade, could have been used to build money and support for an eventual return to FBS. We could have worked on facilities, built a culture of winning (which would have brought pride and fan support) and probably had success getting the stadium project started since we wouldn't be in the same level of play as Alabama, Auburn, Troy, etc.

• FCS would have had the same effect on the other sports as discontinuing football altogether. They would still have to look at a football-less conference, they could have still gained financial support from the budget as I assume FCS play would have been a bit cheaper for us (especially in the long run).

The more and more you look at this whole thing from a rational point of view, the more and more you realize just how pre-determined the whole thing was. Any leader worth his salt would have considered dropping down a level, but the report spells out that it was a deal-breaker from the beginning.

Does any of this make sense? Or would FCS rules have made it impossible?
12-04-2014 02:05 PM
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KSUBlazer Offline
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Post: #2
RE: A drop to FCS
Although I love FBS football and the possibility for big name games that it brings, I would not have been opposed to playing at an FCS level. With our location and resources (lack of commitment from the administration notwithstanding), we would have a chance to play for national championships in FCS. That is unfortunately not the case in C-USA. There is too much prejudice against the G5 conferences from the people that make the decisions.

Still, I would only be willing to accept a drop of that nature as an alternative to killing the program. Right now, FCS is a damn sight better than what Watts wants.
12-04-2014 02:20 PM
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sadolakced Offline
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Post: #3
RE: A drop to FCS
If the goal was fiscal responsibility, sure.

If the goal was to kill UAB athletics, then no.
12-04-2014 02:21 PM
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ATTALLABLAZE Offline
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Post: #4
RE: A drop to FCS
Doesn't matter. PBJ wants it dead.
12-04-2014 03:00 PM
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blazer-J Offline
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Post: #5
RE: A drop to FCS
(12-04-2014 02:05 PM)iam4uab Wrote:  You know, I've been thinking a lot about this. I admit, I don't fully understand how the FCS rules and regulations differ from FBS, but...

• Since they are already honoring scholarships and contracts, couldn't they have done the same in FCS? Sure some guys might have left, including the coaches, but we would have been set up to be a dominant force in the FCS for the next couple of years.

• That success would have probably led to decent FCS recruiting. I'm not naive enough to think that we would have continued to recruit FBS talent to an FCS school, but if scholarships were honored and some of our talented underclassmen had stuck around to play, we probably would have been able to recruit to the upper echelon of the FCS. I mean, if Jacksonville St. can get kids to come there and compete nationally, should be a piece of cake for Birmingham, right?

• The time in FCS, be it a few years or a decade, could have been used to build money and support for an eventual return to FBS. We could have worked on facilities, built a culture of winning (which would have brought pride and fan support) and probably had success getting the stadium project started since we wouldn't be in the same level of play as Alabama, Auburn, Troy, etc.

• FCS would have had the same effect on the other sports as discontinuing football altogether. They would still have to look at a football-less conference, they could have still gained financial support from the budget as I assume FCS play would have been a bit cheaper for us (especially in the long run).

The more and more you look at this whole thing from a rational point of view, the more and more you realize just how pre-determined the whole thing was. Any leader worth his salt would have considered dropping down a level, but the report spells out that it was a deal-breaker from the beginning.

Does any of this make sense? Or would FCS rules have made it impossible?


Initially i was against dropping a division, but in light of the situation I would be for it now. Mainly because it would allow current players to finish their careers here (if they wanted to) and it would be easier to jump back up to FBS at a later date. Also, could avoid the game contract fees. But as has been mentioned, PBJ wants the program gone - therefore it was not explored in the study.
I mentioned this in one of my email to RL and the board.
12-04-2014 03:21 PM
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iam4uab Offline
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Post: #6
RE: A drop to FCS
(12-04-2014 03:00 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  Doesn't matter. PBJ wants it dead.

Yeah, I get that. I guess my point is that it's yet another strike against the current "leadership" to be considered.

Especially by the faculty senate in their upcoming meeting.

"You don't know what you don't know," and Ray Watts doesn't know what would have come from dropping to FCS because he told them not to include it in the study.
12-04-2014 03:58 PM
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uabbean Offline
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Post: #7
RE: A drop to FCS
(12-04-2014 03:21 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 02:05 PM)iam4uab Wrote:  You know, I've been thinking a lot about this. I admit, I don't fully understand how the FCS rules and regulations differ from FBS, but...

• Since they are already honoring scholarships and contracts, couldn't they have done the same in FCS? Sure some guys might have left, including the coaches, but we would have been set up to be a dominant force in the FCS for the next couple of years.

• That success would have probably led to decent FCS recruiting. I'm not naive enough to think that we would have continued to recruit FBS talent to an FCS school, but if scholarships were honored and some of our talented underclassmen had stuck around to play, we probably would have been able to recruit to the upper echelon of the FCS. I mean, if Jacksonville St. can get kids to come there and compete nationally, should be a piece of cake for Birmingham, right?

• The time in FCS, be it a few years or a decade, could have been used to build money and support for an eventual return to FBS. We could have worked on facilities, built a culture of winning (which would have brought pride and fan support) and probably had success getting the stadium project started since we wouldn't be in the same level of play as Alabama, Auburn, Troy, etc.

• FCS would have had the same effect on the other sports as discontinuing football altogether. They would still have to look at a football-less conference, they could have still gained financial support from the budget as I assume FCS play would have been a bit cheaper for us (especially in the long run).

The more and more you look at this whole thing from a rational point of view, the more and more you realize just how pre-determined the whole thing was. Any leader worth his salt would have considered dropping down a level, but the report spells out that it was a deal-breaker from the beginning.

Does any of this make sense? Or would FCS rules have made it impossible?


Initially i was against dropping a division, but in light of the situation I would be for it now. Mainly because it would allow current players to finish their careers here (if they wanted to) and it would be easier to jump back up to FBS at a later date. Also, could avoid the game contract fees. But as has been mentioned, PBJ wants the program gone - therefore it was not explored in the study.
I mentioned this in one of my email to RL and the board.
I am not opposed to this idea. However the kids on Div 1 ships cannot keep their full ride in the other division. Happened to a kid I used to coach BSC
12-04-2014 04:14 PM
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demiveeman Offline
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Post: #8
RE: A drop to FCS
No, no, and hell no.

The only financially viable option for the largest employer in the State of Alabama and the largest city in the State of Alabama is FBS Football.

It can be funded...it can work. They just don't want it to. And now they are beating us down into their Plan B which still includes ruining the other sports and making this somehow about keeping "a" football team. We want to keep THIS football team.

The President used faulty projected numbers to make the UAB Football seem completely ridiculous because this is NOT about money. The $20 million subsidy that the Athletic Department is getting from UAB is not changing with this new plan. It is being reallocated to other sports. Many of those sports are already competitive in their conference RIGHT NOW. Softball has been to how many straight NCAA tournaments? Soccer has made a habit of being nationally ranked. Baseball recruiting has improved drastically with Regions Field. Basketball had arguably their top-rated recruiting class in a long time and are hosting the C-USA Championships this March.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2014 04:24 PM by demiveeman.)
12-04-2014 04:22 PM
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iam4uab Offline
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Post: #9
RE: A drop to FCS
(12-04-2014 04:22 PM)demiveeman Wrote:  No, no, and hell no.

The only financially viable option for the largest employer in the State of Alabama and the largest city in the State of Alabama is FBS Football.

It can be funded...it can work. They just don't want it to. And now they are beating us down into their Plan B which still includes ruining the other sports and making this somehow about keeping "a" football team. We want to keep THIS football team.

The President used faulty projected numbers to make UAB Football seem completely ridiculous because this is NOT about money. The $20 million subsidy that the Athletic Department is getting from UAB is not changing with this new plan. It is being reallocated to other sports. Many of those sports are already competitive in their conference right now. Softball has been to how many straight NCAA tournaments? Soccer has made a habit of being nationally ranked. Baseball recruiting has improved drastically with Regions Field. Basketball had arguably their top-rated recruiting class in a long time and are hosting the C-USA Championships this March.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.

I agree with you 100%. Again, I'm saying this to show that without the consideration of FCS in the study I think it shows that this had nothing to do with fiscal responsibility, but a premeditated agenda.

I'm not saying they should consider it now, but that if everyone else is to believe Watts, then this should have been looked at. It's further proof of his lying.
12-04-2014 04:28 PM
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LastMinuteman Offline
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Post: #10
RE: A drop to FCS
Being a fan of a program that recently moved in the opposite direction, here's the deal with FCS:

1. It only provides a 26% reduction in scholarship costs (if you want to be competitive and use max scholarships).
2. There is no TV money whatsoever. Some pay to put games on TV.
3. The playoffs lose money. You have to pay the NCAA to host a playoff game, then get less than a week to sell tickets. ESPN does not pay the NCAA for the handful of FCS playoff games it broadcasts, other than what's necessary to cover the production costs.
4. There are no bowl/bcs revenue distributions, other than a very small pot of money provided by the former bcs that's divided among all FCS programs.
5. Guarantees for playing road games without a return game are less than half of what you would get as a FBS team.
6. Donations are lower.
7. Average ticket price is lower, and ticket sales and concessions are really your only traditional revenue source in FCS.
8. You usually play 1 less regular season game per year than FBS, so less ticket sale opportunities.
9. Equipment costs generally remain the same. You can skimp a bit on the coaching staff, and postpone facilities upgrades by an extra 10-15 years vs. FBS standards.

The only way to take a serious bite out of football expenses is to go completely non-scholarship. There is one Division I conference, the Pioneer Football League, that does that. Annual expenses are roughly $1 to 2 million at that level. Members include Dayton, Butler, Davidson and Jacksonville. I think there's only one public university in that conference. It works for them, but they play in a very small world and go even more unnoticed than the rest of FCS. The league champion does get an AQ to the FCS Playoffs, but so far they've been completely destroyed in both appearances since they gained the AQ. Understandably so. 0 vs. 63 scholarships is a much bigger gap than 63 vs. 85 in FBS.

I no longer keep tabs on top FCS football budgets, but I know that fellow A10 member Richmond spends $6 million on FCS football, and A10 member Fordham is somewhere in the mid/high $5 million range. They're both usually at the high end of FCS, mind you, but once you factor in the loss of nearly all non-ticket revenue, I think it's apparent that even a more modest full scholarship FCS budget than Richmond/Fordham wouldn't provide big savings over just joining the Sun Belt. ULM's football budget was only $3.5 million in 2012, although that was the lowest in all of FBS.

Sorry for painting the bleak picture, but there's a lot of misunderstanding among FBS fans about the cost savings of FCS. It's a level that makes sense for small, private universities where another 44 scholarships (22 football + 22 women's equivalents) is actually a big commitment when you only have 2000 students total, or if you know you're simply never going to have the money to build Sun Belt or MAC level facilities.
12-04-2014 04:35 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #11
RE: A drop to FCS
If you have to do club football...it is a start on the road back. Never give up.
12-04-2014 04:44 PM
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KevMo4UAB Offline
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Post: #12
RE: A drop to FCS
(12-04-2014 04:22 PM)demiveeman Wrote:  No, no, and hell no.

The only financially viable option for the largest employer in the State of Alabama and the largest city in the State of Alabama is FBS Football.

It can be funded...it can work. They just don't want it to. And now they are beating us down into their Plan B which still includes ruining the other sports and making this somehow about keeping "a" football team. We want to keep THIS football team.

The President used faulty projected numbers to make the UAB Football seem completely ridiculous because this is NOT about money. The $20 million subsidy that the Athletic Department is getting from UAB is not changing with this new plan. It is being reallocated to other sports. Many of those sports are already competitive in their conference RIGHT NOW. Softball has been to how many straight NCAA tournaments? Soccer has made a habit of being nationally ranked. Baseball recruiting has improved drastically with Regions Field. Basketball had arguably their top-rated recruiting class in a long time and are hosting the C-USA Championships this March.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.

+1
12-04-2014 05:09 PM
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Matrix Offline
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Post: #13
RE: A drop to FCS
This was not Gene Bartow's vision for UAB. Anything less than what he aspired to for this school and city is unacceptable for me. **** Paul Tyrant Jr. & Ray Watts for what they've done!
12-04-2014 05:16 PM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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Post: #14
RE: A drop to FCS
(12-04-2014 04:14 PM)uabbean Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 03:21 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 02:05 PM)iam4uab Wrote:  You know, I've been thinking a lot about this. I admit, I don't fully understand how the FCS rules and regulations differ from FBS, but...

• Since they are already honoring scholarships and contracts, couldn't they have done the same in FCS? Sure some guys might have left, including the coaches, but we would have been set up to be a dominant force in the FCS for the next couple of years.

• That success would have probably led to decent FCS recruiting. I'm not naive enough to think that we would have continued to recruit FBS talent to an FCS school, but if scholarships were honored and some of our talented underclassmen had stuck around to play, we probably would have been able to recruit to the upper echelon of the FCS. I mean, if Jacksonville St. can get kids to come there and compete nationally, should be a piece of cake for Birmingham, right?

• The time in FCS, be it a few years or a decade, could have been used to build money and support for an eventual return to FBS. We could have worked on facilities, built a culture of winning (which would have brought pride and fan support) and probably had success getting the stadium project started since we wouldn't be in the same level of play as Alabama, Auburn, Troy, etc.

• FCS would have had the same effect on the other sports as discontinuing football altogether. They would still have to look at a football-less conference, they could have still gained financial support from the budget as I assume FCS play would have been a bit cheaper for us (especially in the long run).

The more and more you look at this whole thing from a rational point of view, the more and more you realize just how pre-determined the whole thing was. Any leader worth his salt would have considered dropping down a level, but the report spells out that it was a deal-breaker from the beginning.

Does any of this make sense? Or would FCS rules have made it impossible?


Initially i was against dropping a division, but in light of the situation I would be for it now. Mainly because it would allow current players to finish their careers here (if they wanted to) and it would be easier to jump back up to FBS at a later date. Also, could avoid the game contract fees. But as has been mentioned, PBJ wants the program gone - therefore it was not explored in the study.
I mentioned this in one of my email to RL and the board.
I am not opposed to this idea. However the kids on Div 1 ships cannot keep their full ride in the other division. Happened to a kid I used to coach BSC

FCS is still Divison I so no drop in division. FCS can provide full scholarships but you only get 63? for up to 85 players. If you spread out to 85 some will not have full rides.
12-04-2014 10:55 PM
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scales Offline
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Post: #15
RE: A drop to FCS
We have no athletic director. (Interim doesn't count)

We will be kicked out of C-USA at the close of the basketball season. Conference tourney this year in Bham will be one last slap in the face.

All other Olympic sports will scramble to find homes in bastard conferences.

We will have teams split up into multiple conferences in the short term until we simply eliminate them one by one.

The ripple effects of this will be like a bad dream for years to come.
12-04-2014 11:04 PM
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the_blazerman Offline
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Post: #16
RE: A drop to FCS
What he said.

Even if football is added back we would be 6 years away from beating Prairie View.
12-04-2014 11:06 PM
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