(11-14-2014 07:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 07:13 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 06:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 04:26 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  Sweet spot column regarding whether the Nats should trade Zimmermann: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_...zimmermann

I don't think they should, but food for thought. They have a lot of key players becoming free agents in the next two years. Stever, what do you think they should do?

I actually think they should trade him. Desmond is a key piece that they need to resign. We have a lot of young pitchers close enough to the Majors I think and so Zimmerman is expendable to some degree. Still have Strasburg, Gio, Fister, Roark for a top 4.

my problem is, you want to go for it before the window closes. It's so difficult to win a title that if you have a shot you need to take it. As a Thunder fan I sit around all the time watching a team with a window that appears to be slowly closing. But I guess the Nats still have a really good team, and one of the best in the league and losing Zimmermann wouldn't change that.

also remember probably get a good 2b in the trade, which would fill the big hole on the offense. So it makes the team that much better every day as well.

is there a good 2B out there who's available in a trade? Remember, you're not getting a good major leaguer for a one year rental. Best the Sox could do for Lester is a 1.3 year rental of a good but not great outfielder.

(11-13-2014 01:28 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Interesting piece about the Braves:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/1...pparently/

That's crazy talk. Especially since the Braves were 3rd in the NL in runs allowed in 2014. Pitching isn't and since about 1994 has never been a problem for Atlanta. As evidenced by being 14th in the NL in runs scored; it's hitting. What would be the purpose of going in the tank for something you already excel at?

(11-16-2014 03:06 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-13-2014 01:28 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Interesting piece about the Braves:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/1...pparently/

That's crazy talk. Especially since the Braves were 3rd in the NL in runs allowed in 2014. Pitching isn't and since about 1994 has never been a problem for Atlanta. As evidenced by being 14th in the NL in runs scored; it's hitting. What would be the purpose of going in the tank for something you already excel at?

I know. Not sure I really understand what the heck Hart is thinking there at all. Pitching was not the problem at all...

Braves trade Tommy La Stella to the Cubs for Arodyz Vizcaino who they traded away 2 years ago in the Paul Maholm trade

definitely glad i'm not a Braves fan right now. That trade makes no sense at all.

Wow the Braves are idiots....
sent Heyward and Walden to the Cards for Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

(11-17-2014 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Wow the Braves are idiots....
sent Heyward and Walden to the Cards for Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

Don't know that I agree, in fact I think both teams did well for themselves. Sure the Cards got a really good OF, giving them an infusion of OBP skills, baserunning and gold glove defense. But Heyward is a free agent after this season and will likely not sign an extension with the Cards. OTOH the Braves smartly analyzed their team and saw too many flaws to compete this year as well as an inability to sign Heyward to an extension. So they got themselves a quality young arm who isn't a free agent until after 2018. Fact is, you don't get as much for one year rentals as you used to.

Whoa, the Jays gave Martin 5/82! Last I saw the Cubs were frontrunners, while offering 4/64. 9.8 WAR over the past two seasons, so even with a likely offensive regression after last year's career year, he's still likely to put up 7-8 WAR over the next two seasons. So he'll provide around $42-49 million in WAR, meaning he'll only need to provide around $33-40 over the last 3 seasons of the deal.

Miller has regressed the last 2 years big time. last year he was below average ERA+ and his FIP(stat you like which I don't but still) was 4.54 and going the wrong way.

Love it for my Nats- they now should win easily...

(11-17-2014 12:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Miller has regressed the last 2 years big time. last year he was below average ERA+ and his FIP(stat you like which I don't but still) was 4.54 and going the wrong way.

Love it for my Nats- they now should win easily...

I agree that Miller didn't perform well last season, but he was only 23 and dealt with some injury issues. He's still a talented, young and controllable arm. You just don't get jack for one year rentals these days. I imagine this is a wake up call if you thought Zimmermann was gonna fetch a huge prize.

Umm the Nats won the division by 17 games and the Braves ended up tied with the Mets. I'd say the Nats already won quite easily

BTW, the Martin deal is what gives me pause about signing Sandoval. Free agent deals are all about getting surplus value in the first 2 or 3 year years, in exchange for overpaying in the last 2-3. If Sandoval gets $18-20 million per year, he's likely providing at most a few million in surplus value in the first year or two as he's basically a 3 WAR player.

(11-17-2014 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Wow the Braves are idiots....
sent Heyward and Walden to the Cards for Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

Yeah, I don't care about losing Heyward, but Walden hurts.

(11-17-2014 01:00 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Wow the Braves are idiots....
sent Heyward and Walden to the Cards for Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

Yeah, I don't care about losing Heyward, but Walden hurts.

well that's a new one. Walden is a good pitcher, but you have to think they can replace a reliever. It's a pretty fungible position

(11-17-2014 01:13 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 01:00 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Wow the Braves are idiots....
sent Heyward and Walden to the Cards for Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

Yeah, I don't care about losing Heyward, but Walden hurts.

well that's a new one. Walden is a good pitcher, but you have to think they can replace a reliever. It's a pretty fungible position

They "replaced" him with Vizcaino yesterday. Walden is going to be a helluva closer for St. Louis. Now we have another 3-4 rotation guy, a reliever we already sent packing, and no second baseman or right fielder!

(11-17-2014 01:35 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 01:13 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 01:00 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Wow the Braves are idiots....
sent Heyward and Walden to the Cards for Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

Yeah, I don't care about losing Heyward, but Walden hurts.

well that's a new one. Walden is a good pitcher, but you have to think they can replace a reliever. It's a pretty fungible position

They "replaced" him with Vizcaino yesterday. Walden is going to be a helluva closer for St. Louis. Now we have another 3-4 rotation guy, a reliever we already sent packing, and no second baseman or right fielder!

Rosenthal is the closer...for now. Let's also take a step back and remember the Braves ended the season tied with the Mets! Don't act like they're tearing apart a good team.

(11-17-2014 01:35 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 01:13 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 01:00 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Wow the Braves are idiots....
sent Heyward and Walden to the Cards for Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

Yeah, I don't care about losing Heyward, but Walden hurts.

well that's a new one. Walden is a good pitcher, but you have to think they can replace a reliever. It's a pretty fungible position

They "replaced" him with Vizcaino yesterday. Walden is going to be a helluva closer for St. Louis. Now we have another 3-4 rotation guy, a reliever we already sent packing, and no second baseman or right fielder!

it pains me to hear those words. god i hate the cards

Interesting from Keith Law:
The trade makes a ton of sense for both teams, although it's an acknowledgment on Atlanta's part of the weaknesses of the current roster and farm system and may not read very well to some of their fans.

Atlanta was likely to lose Heyward after the season to free agency, and their farm system was left in terrible shape after former GM Frank Wren's tenure, so this deal helps restock their system with four more years of Miller and potentially six of Jenkins in exchange for one year of Heyward and two of Walden. Atlanta needed to make a trade like this to get younger and extract value from Heyward while they could. The Cardinals didn't have the same urgency, but they strengthened a weak spot on the roster and did so without significantly damaging their future.

Just strange to me to see the Braves now in full-scale rebuild mode. Haven't seen it in really 25 years just about now.

As a Cardinal fan I don't like the trade. I will be honest I don't follow the Braves or Heyward but I really liked Miller and Jenkins was finally figuring it out in the AFL. Hopefully the trade works out for the Cardinals but if the Cardinals don't sign an extension with him or win the World Series next year I think it is a loss.

(11-17-2014 04:17 PM)nbcards Wrote:  As a Cardinal fan I don't like the trade. I will be honest I don't follow the Braves or Heyward but I really liked Miller and Jenkins was finally figuring it out in the AFL. Hopefully the trade works out for the Cardinals but if the Cardinals don't sign an extension with him or win the World Series next year I think it is a loss.

it's high time one of these deals backfires for you jerks (i mean that kindly ). i'm sick of all these prudent very rewarding moves y'all make while cincinnati always sticks with its foundation. granted the latos trade was bold and paid off but didn't really get us anywhere. we're afraid to trade for bats. it's possible that's because only until recently has our pitching been good

(11-17-2014 04:17 PM)nbcards Wrote:  As a Cardinal fan I don't like the trade. I will be honest I don't follow the Braves or Heyward but I really liked Miller and Jenkins was finally figuring it out in the AFL. Hopefully the trade works out for the Cardinals but if the Cardinals don't sign an extension with him or win the World Series next year I think it is a loss.

well obviously, that's why it's a gamble. I'll say it again, as an OKC Thunder fan I know what it means to see the window slowly creep closed. The Cardinals don't need Miller, but after what happened to Taveras, they need an OF and Heyward greatly improves their team